But he was our top scorer last season.

[inckley fox]

We've always had scapegoats, even when we're winners ng for christs sake

Hopefully the majority realise what he brings to the team and I have no doubt Nige does. Seems to be a real main stay of the team

 

For my part, there is no scapegoating. You'll find far more praise of Nugent than criticism from me, but several people on here seem to think this is 'scapegoating' because I'm not sure he's good enough. Clearly my observations from his first few matches, and taking into consideration several seasons of largely disappointing top flight exposure, not to mention the observations of the manager who has just brought in two different players who fit his position, are all entirely irrational.

 

We'll see whether he's a mainstay come the back end of the season. But if a person who respectfully questions whether this is still the case is automatically guilty of scapegoating, then we're going to have problems.

[Manwell Pablo]

For my part, there is no scapegoating. You'll find far more praise of Nugent than criticism from me, but several people on here seem to think this is 'scapegoating' because I'm not sure he's good enough. Clearly my observations from his first few matches, and taking into consideration several seasons of largely disappointing top flight exposure, not to mention the observations of the manager who has just brought in two different players who fit his position, are all entirely irrational.

 

We'll see whether he's a mainstay come the back end of the season. But if a person who respectfully questions whether this is still the case is automatically guilty of scapegoating, then we're going to have problems.

 

There we are again

[inckley fox]

Yeah you keep saying that.

 

You seem to forget their both U21 and therefore qualify for the squad automatically, and haven't managed to even get on our bench yet.

 

They're 20 years old there here to grow into players not challenge Nugent for a start as I've already told you.  Their signing has the square root of nothing to do with anything connected to David Nugent.

 

Of course it does. We sign two players who play in his position, obviously that has nothing to do with Nugent. Of course we're not going to see them in the side. And how daft of me for thinking that Powell, who is only here on a season-long loan, might have been signed with this season in mind.

 

It's spell-binding how little sense you make, sometimes.

[foxfanazer]

For my part, there is no scapegoating. You'll find far more praise of Nugent than criticism from me, but several people on here seem to think this is 'scapegoating' because I'm not sure he's good enough. Clearly my observations from his first few matches, and taking into consideration several seasons of largely disappointing top flight exposure, not to mention the observations of the manager who has just brought in two different players who fit his position, are all entirely irrational.

We'll see whether he's a mainstay come the back end of the season. But if a person who respectfully questions whether this is still the case is automatically guilty of scapegoating, then we're going to have problems.

To be honest I hadn't read your post so wasn't picking you out. When you say we've bought 2 number 10's do you mean Lawrence and Powell?

It just strikes me that whenever we lose (which hasn't been very often over the last year) the same old names crop up even though nearly everybody on the day was below par.

[Manwell Pablo]

Of course it does. We sign two players who play in his position, obviously that has nothing to do with Nugent. Of course we're not going to see them in the side. And how daft of me for thinking that Powell, who is only here on a season-long loan, might have been signed with this season in mind.

 

It's spell-binding how little sense you make, sometimes.

 

I don't make sense yeah ok

 

Powell is probably on loan with a view to permanent isn't he we're probably having a look, he'll probably make a combined 10 appearances at most in all comps. The fact that they aren't even on our bench tells you how close they are to getting game time, i.e nowherefckingnear. They certainly not going to take Nugents place anytime soon. I will have a cash bet with you on that if you are so sure, well see what's spell-binding then.

[inckley fox]

There we are again

 

Do you ever actually read a person's whole post, or just pick out the bits that fit what you think the argument is about?

 

I've argued repeatedly that Nugent is under-rated, capable and was no worse than most of our other first-teamers on Saturday. But I'm pointing out that we would be daft not to wonder whether he was up to the task, and even dafter to think that the thought hasn't occurred to Pearson.

 

If you can't see that a manager signing two players to compete for a first teamer's position - both of which expect to see first team action this year, one of which is only here for a season anyway - is (a) because the manager thinks he may need alternatives to said first teamer and (b) with this season, rather than solely long-term development in mind, then there really is no point in arguing the point with you any longer. It seems to me from your posts that you are either incapable of grasping breathtakingly simple concepts, or don't want to.

[inckley fox]

To be honest I hadn't read your post so wasn't picking you out. When you say we've bought 2 number 10's do you mean Lawrence and Powell?

It just strikes me that whenever we lose (which hasn't been very often over the last year) the same old names crop up even though nearly everybody on the day was below par.

 

Yes, I think there's another thread on De Laet, isn't there? Next week it will be Konchesky or Hammond. But sometimes people ask questions for a good reason, so unless people are being totally unreasonable it's worth at least having the discussion.

[Manwell Pablo]

Do you ever actually read a person's whole post, or just pick out the bits that fit what you think the argument is about?

 

I've argued repeatedly that Nugent is under-rated, capable and was no worse than most of our other first-teamers on Saturday. But I'm pointing out that we would be daft not to wonder whether he was up to the task, and even dafter to think that the thought hasn't occurred to Pearson.

 

If you can't see that a manager signing two players to compete for a first teamer's position - both of which expect to see first team action this year, one of which is only here for a season anyway - is (a) because the manager thinks he may need alternatives to said first teamer and (b) with this season, rather than solely long-term development in mind, then there really is no point in arguing the point with you any longer. It seems to me from your posts that you are either incapable of grasping breathtakingly simple concepts, or don't want to.

 

Put your money where your mouth is then.

 

£100 I'd be willing to put up,  £100 neither of them keep a fit unsuspended David Nugent out for a total of five Premeir League games or you can have three consecutive games instead if you want.

[Charl91]

For my part, there is no scapegoating. You'll find far more praise of Nugent than criticism from me, but several people on here seem to think this is 'scapegoating' because I'm not sure he's good enough. Clearly my observations from his first few matches, and taking into consideration several seasons of largely disappointing top flight exposure, not to mention the observations of the manager who has just brought in two different players who fit his position, are all entirely irrational.

 

We'll see whether he's a mainstay come the back end of the season. But if a person who respectfully questions whether this is still the case is automatically guilty of scapegoating, then we're going to have problems.

 

A lot of people are blind when it comes to Nugent on this forum. It's ridiculous, because people make comments like "you're only saying this because we lost" but if you say the same thing when we win a game, then they'll say "well, we won so he clearly is an amazing player". You can't win either way.

 

You can't have a legitimate discussion on this forum without being accused of scapegoating. Every player is amazing, untill they're sold, and then they're apparently awful. For me, Nugent's a fairly good player, but one of the last names on the team-sheet for me. Other than our full backs (which I'd say are our biggest weakness), I'd say his is the next position that we'd probably need to improve on.

[Charl91]

Put your money where your mouth is then.

 

£100 I'd be willing to put up,  £100 neither of them keep a fit unsuspended David Nugent out for a total of five Premeir League games or you can have three consecutive games instead if you want.

 

I'd bet you £10 that he doesn't score more than 5 goals from open play.

[inckley fox]

I don't make sense yeah ok

 

Powell is probably on loan with a view to permanent isn't he we're probably having a look, he'll probably make a combined 10 appearances at most in all comps. The fact that they aren't even on our bench tells you how close they are to getting game time, i.e nowherefckingnear. They certainly not going to take Nugents place anytime soon. I will have a cash bet with you on that if you are so sure, well see what's spell-binding then.

 

Haven't you noticed that very few inter-season purchases ever go straight into our side under Pearson? And if you look back over our past squads under NP, you'll also see that plenty of squad members go through spells of not even being on the bench.

 

Powell said he expected first team action when he arrived. He plays in Nugent's position. Beaglehole said Lawrence would be a first team squad member when he arrived. He also plays in Nugent's position. Is it really unthinkable that one of them will get into the side at his expense, at some point in time?

 

And no, this is a forum not Ladbrokes, thanks. But I'd be surprised not to see one of the two of them in the squad over the coming couple of weeks, and - unless he starts playing a more pivotal role in either scoring or making goals in the coming weeks, I'd be equally surprised to see Nugent remain in the first team beyond that.

[Manwell Pablo]

I'd bet you £10 that he doesn't score more than 5 goals from open play.

 

Haven't you noticed that very few inter-season purchases ever go straight into our side under Pearson? And if you look back over our past squads under NP, you'll also see that plenty of squad members go through spells of not even being on the bench.

 

Powell said he expected first team action when he arrived. He plays in Nugent's position. Beaglehole said Lawrence would be a first team squad member when he arrived. He also plays in Nugent's position. Is it really unthinkable that one of them will get into the side at his expense, at some point in time?

 

And no, this is a forum not Ladbrokes, thanks. But I'd be surprised not to see one of the two of them in the squad over the coming couple of weeks, and - unless he starts playing a more pivotal role in either scoring or making goals in the coming weeks, I'd be equally surprised to see Nugent remain in the first team beyond that.

 

Moneys on the table.

[inckley fox]

Put your money where your mouth is then.

 

£100 I'd be willing to put up,  £100 neither of them keep a fit unsuspended David Nugent out for a total of five Premeir League games or you can have three consecutive games instead if you want.

 

So we're not allowed to express an opinion on here now without betting money on it? I'd love to see you in a debating society. Seriously.

[inckley fox]

Moneys on the table.

 

Your money's on the table. Why would I want to bet against one of my own club's players making the grade this season?

[Manwell Pablo]

So we're not allowed to express an opinion on here now without betting money on it? I'd love to see you in a debating society. Seriously.

 

Your allowed to of course.

 

It clearly shows your not in the least bit confident of what your arguing though. So I don't know why your bothering. Those lads have not been bought in to play any kind of main part of our first team squad this season, I'll be amazed if you see much of Lawrence at all Powell is probably back up and will be looked at with a view to a permanent move. They're both young, could have bright futures, but there not here to challange David Nugent, yet anyway.

[inckley fox]

I've not called you a clown I said you were being one. Which I'm sorry, you are.

 

Are ya?

 

I said clear cut chance (bolded as your reading doesn't seem quite up the standard your writing) which that chance is most definitely not for the reasons I've already given you so your not stating anything factual. What you're stating is utter rubbish. Just for a change. Mind you you seem to be saying Cambiasso was our best player now as well so I'm starting to wonder if you've actually watched a different game to the rest of us.

 

I've seen one clear cut chance which he undeniably should of taken, and he's scored one crucial goal against Man U. So even that statement is wrong.

 

His record in this division is terrible, goal scoring wise, and I has hoping he'd be a bit part player at most this season however from what I've seen from him so far, that being some excellent performances equating two 8 points on the board, I'm happy for him to play a larger part even if it means he only score 5-8 goals. Besides the opinion he should be dropped is not what I have a problem with even if I don't agree with it it's A) the way Grewkes puts it across B) The timing of it (WE'VE LOST QUICK BLAME NUGENT FOR EVERYTHING)

And yes if you think Powell or Lawrence (I presume this is who you mean as I can't for the life of me think of anyone else) are going to seriously threaten Nugents place any time soon, especially Lawrence who will more than likely spend the season in the development squad, you are being a clown. I don't think either has made it as far as the bench yet,. Nugent has competition but it's mostly from players who would play a different role.

 

Clearly Pearson doesn't agree with you, that would be why Nugents started every single game so far.

 

Clearly you go to bars where people respond really positively to being told that they're being a clown every time they disagree with you. How did that work out back in 98-2000 when you were going round telling everyone that Izzet wasn't as good as Hendrie and definitely didn't deserve a run-out for England?

 

We've signed two players for Nugent's position, both of which - according to the players themselves and our coaches - will be first team squad members. As for Nugent, the guy has struggled in the PL in the past. He's a good player, but to maintain that the manager isn't wondering about his place in the side is quite an assumption.

 

Now I don't think I can be any more clear - Nugent is a very decent player, and he hasn't done at all badly overall this season. But he hasn't taken his chances, or his clear-cut chances, and he hasn't created too many of them either. Unless that changes he will find himself out of the side, either due to a change of formation or a rival #10. That's not to say that he won't have a part to play, nor that I want to bet on him failing to make the grade this season. It's just a fairly straightforward observation.

[Manwell Pablo]

Clearly you go to bars where people respond really positively to being told that they're being a clown every time they disagree with you. How did that work out back in 98 when you were going round telling everyone that Izzet wasn't as good as Hendrie and definitely didn't deserve a run-out for England?

 

We've signed two players for Nugent's position, both of which - according to the players themselves and our coaches - will be first team squad members. As for Nugent, the guy has struggled in the PL in the past. He's a good player, but to maintain that the manager isn't wondering about his place in the side is quite an assumption.

 

Now I don't think I can be any more clear - Nugent is a very decent player, and he hasn't done at all badly overall this season. But he hasn't taken his chances, or his clear-cut chances, and he hasn't created too many of them either. Unless that changes he will find himself out of the side, either due to a change of formation or a rival #10. That's not to say that he won't have a part to play, nor that I want to bet on him failing to make the grade this season. It's just a fairly straightforward observation.

 

 

[inckley fox]

Your allowed to of course.

 

It clearly shows your not in the least bit confident of what your arguing though. So I don't know why your bothering. Those lads have not been bought in to play any kind of main part of our first team squad this season, I'll be amazed if you see much of Lawrence at all Powell is probably back up and will be looked at with a view to a permanent move. They're both young, could have bright futures, but there not here to challange David Nugent, yet anyway.

 

No, it means (a) I don't bet and (b) I especially don't bet against my own players.

 

I don't know if you've ever watched people who actually know how to argue in the process of arguing. It might be more interesting to see money changing hands on Question Time, or in Parliament, but it doesn't.

 

I've suggested that the manager is currently looking closely at Nugent's position. I've stated that, as far as I can see, he's done alright this season but will have to do more if he's to remain a mainstay of the side. I'm not entirely sure which part of that you're arguing with, or are desperate for me to bet on.

[inckley fox]

 

It's a broken record because you are either arguing for the sake of arguing, or are simply too daft to figure out what point I'm making.

 

Did you ever see that comedy sketch - 'stupid people are really good at winning arguments because they are too stupid to know when they are wrong'. Chris Morris, if I recall correctly. Now, to paraphrase your totally unnecessary 'clown' comment which kicked much of this off, I'm not saying that you are stupid, but if you can't see the perfectly straightforward and respectful point that I'm making, then you are most certainly being stupid. And there's no point in arguing with you, because you'll never have the faintest clue when you're talking rubbish.

[Dickov22]

Your allowed to of course.

It clearly shows your not in the least bit confident of what your arguing though. So I don't know why your bothering. Those lads have not been bought in to play any kind of main part of our first team squad this season, I'll be amazed if you see much of Lawrence at all Powell is probably back up and will be looked at with a view to a permanent move. They're both young, could have bright futures, but there not here to challange David Nugent, yet anyway.

I agree with you around your Nugent comments, but you're totally wrong if you think Powell and Lawrence aren't here for the first team squad. They both are

[Manwell Pablo]

No, it means (a) I don't bet and (b) I especially don't bet against my own players.

 

I don't know if you've ever watched people who actually know how to argue in the process of arguing. It might be more interesting to see money changing hands on Question Time, or in Parliament, but it doesn't.

 

I've suggested that the manager is currently looking closely at Nugent's position. I've stated that, as far as I can see, he's done alright this season but will have to do more if he's to remain a mainstay of the side. I'm not entirely sure which part of that you're arguing with, or are desperate for me to bet on.

 

This isn't even betting according to you my views are so ludicrous they are spell-binding so you basically turning down free money, either that or as I say, you're not actually that convinced of winning. I know which one my moneys on excuse the pun. And you be betting against one of your players but betting in favor of two, surely levels it out.

 

I get what your doing with the over articulate and the mentioning debate society's and question time, your intelligent we get it, unfortuantley that doesn't mean you know anything about football. 

 

I should imagine the managers looking at every position closely but that's so far away from what you were saying originally it's embarrassing, but no I don't disagree with any of that

EDIT: Actually do I think Nugent is worthy of his place if were to maintain the levels he's shown in most games thus far.

[Manwell Pablo]

I agree with you around your Nugent comments, but you're totally wrong if you think Powell and Lawrence aren't here for the first team squad. They both are

 

You see either of them starting ahead of Nugent, I really, really don't, given they can't even get in the 18 atm.

 

If we suffer a lot of injuries they might get a go. They'll probably make the odd appearance here and there, they'll make no serious impact this year. To suggest they've been bought in shows the managers doubt in Nugent is incorrect, in my eyes.

[Dickov22]

You see either of them starting ahead of Nugent, I really, really don't, given they can't even get in the 18 atm.

If we suffer a lot of injuries they might get a go. They'll probably make the odd appearance here and there, they'll make no serious impact this year. To suggest they've been bought in shows the managers doubt in Nugent is incorrect, in my eyes.

I'm not suggesting they've been brought here to replace Nugent. Pearson clearly loves Nuge and rightly so. Nugent's played pretty well this season in my opinion. However, we have so many options at the moment, it must be so tough to pick an 18 let alone an 11. Lawrence and Powell are both highly rated. It's a long season, there will be injuries, suspensions, loss of form and different games. I reckon both will get their chance. It's up to them to take it.

We're only 6 games in. Just because they haven't yet made the 18, doesn't mean they won't in the future. Simpson hadn't made the 18 until sat, he's now surely in contention to start against Burnley. Just an example

[inckley fox]

This isn't even betting according to you my views are so ludicrous they are spell-binding so you basically turning down free money, either that or as I say, you're not actually that convinced of winning. I know which one my moneys on excuse the pun. And you be betting against one of your players but betting in favor of two, surely levels it out.

 

I get what your doing with the over articulate and the mentioning debate society's and question time, your intelligent we get it, unfortuantley that doesn't mean you know anything about football. 

 

I should imagine the managers looking at every position closely but that's so far away from what you were saying originally it's embarrassing, but no I don't disagree with any of that

 

What, in your mind, was I saying originally? Let's go back:

 

Nugent is a good player. He had a great last season. He's done fine this year. He was no worse than 4 or 5 others on Saturday.

 

BUT-

 

He needs to take his chances when he gets them, needs to be creating more chances too, and needs to do better than he has in past PL seasons if he is to keep his place.

 

Oh, and we've signed two #10 strikers, both of which are first team squad members (according to them and our coaches), so it's pretty likely that the manager is looking closely at his place in the side too.

 

And yes, I suspect we'll see them at Nugent's expense at some point in the season. Whether or not I know anything about football - and I've seen very little to suggest you have a clue what you're banging on about at pretty much any given moment in time - is irrelevant. The question is, does Pearson? Because if he has brought in two players for Nugent's role and, as you keep stressing, doesn't draft them into the side (most probably at Nugent's expense) at some point in time, then that would suggest that he doesn't know what he's doing.

 

My guess, though, is that he does. But I don't expect you to understand that.

[Manwell Pablo]

I'm not suggesting they've been brought here to replace Nugent. Pearson clearly loves Nuge and rightly so. Nugent's played pretty well this season in my opinion. However, we have so many options at the moment, it must be so tough to pick an 18 let alone an 11. Lawrence and Powell are both highly rated. It's a long season, there will be injuries, suspensions, loss of form and different games. I reckon both will get their chance. It's up to them to take it.

 

No, you aren't.......he is (sort of) and that's what's being argued.