Mark_w Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 I wouldn’t say it’s doom and gloom. I think it’s more just exasperation that we continually play players out of their best positions, or a naïve attacking formation away from home. We have been doing well lately but the team is still being hamstrung by Pearson's blunders. Vardy on the wing Away at Swansea Failing to 'close out' the game against Burnley. (Taking Hammond off and bringing Knocky on) Konchesky at Wing-back and the diamond H WBA James as Attacking Midfield H Sunderland 442 A QPR 442 H Liverpool 442 A Villa No Defensive Midfielder H Stoke Vardy again on the wing away at Man U These poor choices are just happening too often. It’s awful to watch MoTD and continually see all other teams all lining up 4-2-3-1. Then when we come on – 4-4-2! And yes I do believe that without these bloopers we'd be between 4 and 8 points better off. I have been one of Pearson’s biggest supporters since his return, but these tactical and selection errors are starting to add up. For me, the frustration is that I believe we have a really good team, and a good manager who gets the best out of his players. BUT… the constant mistakes are killing us, such as the diamond, pairing King/Drinkwater, and pairing Vardy/Ulloa. Now, the purchase of another striker when we are just crying out for someone who can create chances is a £9m mistake. I’m sure Kramaric is a great finisher. But he’s not going to score chances out of thin air. To survive, we’ll have to bench him… and that’s just never going to happen given the transfer fee. Nugent is still the only player who can play that advanced midfielder/deep striker that we have been crying out for all season. Nugent. It’s all on him now. If he plays out of his skin then he may pull the team together and we’ve got a chance. If not, then we’re royally fvcked. Our whole season now relies on Nugent. Fvcking Nugent!!!! (OK most teams lose at Man U, but not many are hammered by half-time.) Well the sides around us have lost by more significant score lines than us at Old Trafford so far. You complain about the diamond, but I'm sure you didn't when we beat Man United at the King Power. You complain about Konchesky as a wing back, but I'm sure you didn't when we beat Man United at the King Power. You complain about Vardy on the wing, but I'm sure you didn't when we beat Tottenham at White Hart Lane You complain about 4-4-2, but I'm sure you didn't after Hull, Liverpool, Tottenham, Newcastle, Villa and Stoke. And I imagine you like most of the forum were probably calling for it when we went on our run of playing the diamond. I'm not saying some of these aren't errors and that Nigel Pearson has never got anything wrong, everybody gets things wrong including Nigel Pearson. But you can't just say, whenever we don't win, that Pearson has got it wrong and clearly should have done 'this and this' and if he had we'd have romped to victory, because Football management just isn't that easy. We can look at individual 'mistakes' if we want to explain defeats, but the cold hard truth is that our side is inferior to the majority of the sides in this division, because most have spent years and vast amounts of money putting together strong Premier League teams. Now that's not to say we can't and shouldn't compete, but as we're currently on a run of 4 wins in 7 against strong Premier League teams in all competitions, maybe we should acknowledge that Nigel Pearson has begun to turn around our bad run and therefor surely has earned the right to try and keep us up at the very least. People seem to think that despite not seeing the players train, knowing how they are mentally and physically, without in all likelihood any in depth assessment of the opposition teams, and with a side that has been put together for comparatively little, they know how we can win any football match we play. If you think that's the case, you are living in a dream world. And if you think that we can pluck a manager out of the air who makes no mistakes then you're seriously deluded. Let's not throw away a manager who as you say, is getting the best out of the players and who has a good record in the transfer market (even this season it's not too bad despite a lack of money, Ulloa has been great, people can't get enough of Albrighton, Hamer has done well, Simpson has done well).
Guest Col city fan Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 Well the sides around us have lost by more significant score lines than us at Old Trafford so far. You complain about the diamond, but I'm sure you didn't when we beat Man United at the King Power. You complain about Konchesky as a wing back, but I'm sure you didn't when we beat Man United at the King Power. You complain about Vardy on the wing, but I'm sure you didn't when we beat Tottenham at White Hart Lane You complain about 4-4-2, but I'm sure you didn't after Hull, Liverpool, Tottenham, Newcastle, Villa and Stoke. And I imagine you like most of the forum were probably calling for it when we went on our run of playing the diamond. I'm not saying some of these aren't errors and that Nigel Pearson has never got anything wrong, everybody gets things wrong including Nigel Pearson. But you can't just say, whenever we don't win, that Pearson has got it wrong and clearly should have done 'this and this' and if he had we'd have romped to victory, because Football management just isn't that easy. We can look at individual 'mistakes' if we want to explain defeats, but the cold hard truth is that our side is inferior to the majority of the sides in this division, because most have spent years and vast amounts of money putting together strong Premier League teams. Now that's not to say we can't and shouldn't compete, but as we're currently on a run of 4 wins in 7 against strong Premier League teams in all competitions, maybe we should acknowledge that Nigel Pearson has begun to turn around our bad run and therefor surely has earned the right to try and keep us up at the very least. People seem to think that despite not seeing the players train, knowing how they are mentally and physically, without in all likelihood any in depth assessment of the opposition teams, and with a side that has been put together for comparatively little, they know how we can win any football match we play. If you think that's the case, you are living in a dream world. And if you think that we can pluck a manager out of the air who makes no mistakes then you're seriously deluded. Let's not throw away a manager who as you say, is getting the best out of the players and who has a good record in the transfer market (even this season it's not too bad despite a lack of money, Ulloa has been great, people can't get enough of Albrighton, Hamer has done well, Simpson has done well). Yep, I think I agree with all this too. I still wouldn't want to replace Pearson. You only have to look at what Forest have done. What a farce of a club they are. The only issue I have is when you say we are well behind many of the other Premier teams because they've had years to build. It didn't HAVE to be that way. There are examples of clubs who have come up and immediately made a real fist of staying up. Southampton spring to mind and Swansea? Martin's team also made an instant impact. Our summer spending was poor, unfortunately. I STILL think we'll get 17th though.
Mark_w Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 Yep, I think I agree with all this too. I still wouldn't want to replace Pearson. You only have to look at what Forest have done. What a farce of a club they are. The only issue I have is when you say we are well behind many of the other Premier teams because they've had years to build. It didn't HAVE to be that way. There are examples of clubs who have come up and immediately made a real fist of staying up. Southampton spring to mind and Swansea? Martin's team also made an instant impact. Our summer spending was poor, unfortunately. I STILL think we'll get 17th though. Swansea did superbly, so yes it's possible but it's not exactly a common occurrence. Southampton spent a vast amount more than we did in the summer ahead of their first season in the Premier League and have a youth system that is light years ahead of ours so I don't think they're really comparable.
5waller5 Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 The square pegs in round holes, playing players out of position is almost always tried by a manager for the last few months of his tenure. There are so many examples of it throughout the years "why is he playing X at wherever"? What I can never understand is that almost every manager starts at a club by saying "i'm going to simplify things, play players where they should be played" ... NP said it himself, no balance in the side and players playing out of position .... then the same managers go and make the same mistake after a few years.
5waller5 Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 Swansea did superbly, so yes it's possible but it's not exactly a common occurrence. Southampton spent a vast amount more than we did in the summer ahead of their first season in the Premier League and have a youth system that is light years ahead of ours so I don't think they're really comparable. Southampton's youth team set up is nothing to do with their current league status ... that's down to a fantastic manager signing great players and coaching them well.
Mark_w Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 The square pegs in round holes, playing players out of position is almost always tried by a manager for the last few months of his tenure. There are soon many examples of it throughout the years "why is he playing X at wherever"? What I can never understand is that almost every manager starts at a club by saying "i'm going to simplify things, play players where they should be played" ... NP said it himself, no balance in the side and players playing out of position .... then the same managers go and make the same mistake after a few years. Why is Jeff Schlupp playing on the Left Wing? Oh... is that one not a problem? Maybe, if you're going to slate him when it doesn't work, you could give him some credit when it does. This is not something he's suddenly doing, he has done it with some success in the past and he has only played Vardy on the wing for about three games, two of which were while Riyad was at AFCON. It's not some desperate move he's pulling because he fears for his job.
Fox Ulike Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 Well the sides around us have lost by more significant score lines than us at Old Trafford so far. You complain about the diamond, but I'm sure you didn't when we beat Man United at the King Power. You complain about Konchesky as a wing back, but I'm sure you didn't when we beat Man United at the King Power. You complain about Vardy on the wing, but I'm sure you didn't when we beat Tottenham at White Hart Lane You complain about 4-4-2, but I'm sure you didn't after Hull, Liverpool, Tottenham, Newcastle, Villa and Stoke. And I imagine you like most of the forum were probably calling for it when we went on our run of playing the diamond. I'm not saying some of these aren't errors and that Nigel Pearson has never got anything wrong, everybody gets things wrong including Nigel Pearson. But you can't just say, whenever we don't win, that Pearson has got it wrong and clearly should have done 'this and this' and if he had we'd have romped to victory, because Football management just isn't that easy. We can look at individual 'mistakes' if we want to explain defeats, but the cold hard truth is that our side is inferior to the majority of the sides in this division, because most have spent years and vast amounts of money putting together strong Premier League teams. Now that's not to say we can't and shouldn't compete, but as we're currently on a run of 4 wins in 7 against strong Premier League teams in all competitions, maybe we should acknowledge that Nigel Pearson has begun to turn around our bad run and therefor surely has earned the right to try and keep us up at the very least. People seem to think that despite not seeing the players train, knowing how they are mentally and physically, without in all likelihood any in depth assessment of the opposition teams, and with a side that has been put together for comparatively little, they know how we can win any football match we play. If you think that's the case, you are living in a dream world. And if you think that we can pluck a manager out of the air who makes no mistakes then you're seriously deluded. Let's not throw away a manager who as you say, is getting the best out of the players and who has a good record in the transfer market (even this season it's not too bad despite a lack of money, Ulloa has been great, people can't get enough of Albrighton, Hamer has done well, Simpson has done well). Man United 5-3 we had 3 CMs on the pitch at all times: Hammond, Drinkwater, Cambiasso (sub King). This is what I’ve been arguing for all season. Liverpool Away we started 4-5-1, then went 4-4-2 when we needed to attack. Fair enough to go 4-4-2 when you’re 2-0 down! At Spurs, Vardy was thankfully subbed whilst we were still 1-0 down. Spurs away was 4-4-1-1 with Nugent Ulloa for BOTH GOALS. Albrighton comes on, we score twice. Well done Jamie Vardy! Stoke A was 4-4-1-1 with Nugent/Ulloa. Hull A was 4-4-1-1 with Nugent/Ulloa. Villa H was 4-4-1-1 with Nugent/Ulloa QPR A was 4-4-2 with Vardy/Ulloa Villa A was 4-4-2 with Vardy/Ulloa Liverpool H was 4-4-2 with Vardy/Ulloa I’m not saying it when we don’t win. I’m saying it when we play 4-4-2 with Vardy/Ulloa. It just happens that we never win when we play 4-4-2 with Vardy/Ulloa. Coincidence?
Mark_w Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 Southampton's youth team set up is nothing to do with their current league status ... that's down to a fantastic manager signing great players and coaching them well. Southampton's success in their first season back was partly a result of them spending more than double the amount we spent this summer, don't you think?
5waller5 Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 Why is Jeff Schlupp playing on the Left Wing? Oh... is that one not a problem? Maybe, if you're going to slate him when it doesn't work, you could give him some credit when it does. This is not something he's suddenly doing, he has done it with some success in the past and he has only played Vardy on the wing for about three games, two of which were while Riyad was at AFCON. It's not some desperate move he's pulling because he fears for his job. To be honest I've said for the whole time that I've seen JS play that he'd make a better left winger than front man or left back ... so I'm not sure that decision was a particularly hard one to make!!! Why can't you read any point as an observation, and enter into conversation?? You really don't have to jump to defend every point made (which was more of a general observation) that may be construed as a mild criticism of NP as if someone's just attacked your nearest and dearest.
5waller5 Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 Southampton's success in their first season back was partly a result of them spending more than double the amount we spent this summer, don't you think? Yes!!!! Absolutely ..... spending it wisely too. We've spent peanuts in comparison to teams with any ambition to do anything other than scrap 17th place.
Mark_w Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 Man United 5-3 we had 3 CMs on the pitch at all times: Hammond, Drinkwater, Cambiasso (sub King). This is what I’ve been arguing for all season. Liverpool Away we started 4-5-1, then went 4-4-2 when we needed to attack. Fair enough to go 4-4-2 when you’re 2-0 down! At Spurs, Vardy was thankfully subbed whilst we were still 1-0 down. Spurs away was 4-4-1-1 with Nugent Ulloa for BOTH GOALS. Albrighton comes on, we score twice. Well done Jamie Vardy! Stoke A was 4-4-1-1 with Nugent/Ulloa. Hull A was 4-4-1-1 with Nugent/Ulloa. Villa H was 4-4-1-1 with Nugent/Ulloa QPR A was 4-4-2 with Vardy/Ulloa Villa A was 4-4-2 with Vardy/Ulloa Liverpool H was 4-4-2 with Vardy/Ulloa I’m not saying it when we don’t win. I’m saying it when we play 4-4-2 with Vardy/Ulloa. It just happens that we never win when we play 4-4-2 with Vardy/Ulloa. Coincidence? No I agree that Nugent/Ulloa works an awful lot better as a partnership, I quite agree that Vardy/Ulloa up front together doesn't work. I just think that as he hasn't started them up front together since Villa Away and has signed a new striker, Nigel Pearson might just have figured that out for himself. Fair comment?
5waller5 Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 Why is Jeff Schlupp playing on the Left Wing? Oh... is that one not a problem? Maybe, if you're going to slate him when it doesn't work, you could give him some credit when it does. This is not something he's suddenly doing, he has done it with some success in the past and he has only played Vardy on the wing for about three games, two of which were while Riyad was at AFCON. It's not some desperate move he's pulling because he fears for his job. It is a desperate move. But not because he fears fro his job ... more because we just haven't signed anyone 2/3rds of the way through the season, when it was clear we needed more creativity in to make the step up in May last year.
Mark_w Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 Yes!!!! Absolutely ..... spending it wisely too. We've spent peanuts in comparison to teams with any ambition to do anything other than scrap 17th place. Exactly, so comparing the job done by Pearson who didn't have the money, to the job done by Adkins/Poch is a fruitless exercise.
Fox92 Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 I find it very difficult to defend Pearson today. Both in tactics and starting 11. We were NEVER going to even draw that game today. It was like men v boys. Man u away was always gonna be difficult, but I thought we'd at least set up to have a go. Agree with that Col. The one thing that disappointed me on Saturday was the way we set up. We didn't even cross the halfway line at times then we've got poor Ulloa up top on his own trying to close down their defence who have the easiest first 60 minutes just knocking the ball around. I honestly don't think you can afford to set up to contain at places like Old Trafford, just have a go at them and see what happens. We attacked at Stamford Bridge - should have scored first and put in a good performance - and we attacked at Anfield and got a good, credible, draw. I'm not bothered if QPR went there and lost, I'm not bothered if Hull went there and lost, Manchester United aren't all that. Their attacking third is very good but there defence isn't at all amazing. We actually threatened them when Albrighton and Nugent came on, and we had a bit of pace, but it was too late and we were already 3 down. A good side/a side that wants to win at Old Trafford will win, just can't afford to set up to contain. We were never going to get a point playing like that, never mind three, and the worst is it's just horrid to watch. I'd rather us attack and lose like we did at Chelsea instead of defend and lose. Quite disappointed with Nige on Saturday. My posts on here reflect that I like him and believe in him to keep us up but he can be criticized too at times. Hope we get it right on Saturday, quite a big game is Palace.
MC Prussian Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 I admire your blind faith in the manager but to claim he is a quick learner and knows what he's doing is ludicrous. I know it's the start of the comedy festival this month but you have peaked too soon with those claims. There are just so, so many examples of constant mistakes and bizarre decisions that show he has learnt nothing. My faith is not blind, I have been critical of the manager in the past - reaching as far back as his first stint with us. I'm not surprised you don't go deeper with your personal analysis, merely scratching the surface, instead targeting the messenger instead of the message. Largely smoke and mirrors.
5waller5 Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 Exactly, so comparing the job done by Pearson who didn't have the money, to the job done by Adkins/Poch is a fruitless exercise. Jeez. I give up. Nigel's not made a mistake in not signing players, or in team selection, or in playing people out of position, or formations, or team selections ever. Not once. He's perfect. When he moves will you please follow him to his new club so we can talk about our club, LCFC, without the manager's evangelists destroying any debate over anything in case it criticises their loved one in any way??
Mark_w Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 Jeez. I give up. Nigel's not made a mistake in not signing players, or in team selection, or in playing people out of position, or formations, or team selections ever. Not once. He's perfect. When he moves will you please follow him to his new club so we can talk about our club, LCFC, without the manager's evangelists destroying any debate over anything in case it criticises their loved one in any way?? I'm not destroying the debate I'm participating in it. If you're going to throw your toys out the pram because you don't agree with me then sadly it's a debate that we're clearly not going to continue. Obviously defending Leicester's manager (without once claiming he's perfect) is evidence enough that I just don't care about Leicester City.
5waller5 Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 I'm not destroying the debate I'm participating in it. If you're going to throw your toys out the pram because you don't agree with me then sadly it's a debate that we're clearly not going to continue. Obviously defending Leicester's manager (without once claiming he's perfect) is evidence enough that I just don't care about Leicester City. You don't debate any points Mark .... You simply twist every point or observation into a criticism that you have to vehemently defend NP for. And therefore make every point into a pro or anti pearson point. It just snuffs out any chance of discussion. And I'm not throwing my toys out, I just CBA to participate in conversation that always has to be pro or anti NP. I'm pretty ambivolant towards him right now, I think he stands a chance of keeping us up if he signs a few decent players today and stops playing people out of position, and sticking by players that aren't cutting it. Maybe i'm posting in the wrong thread but i thought it had evolved a bit in 48 pages!
Fox Ulike Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 No I agree that Nugent/Ulloa works an awful lot better as a partnership, I quite agree that Vardy/Ulloa up front together doesn't work. I just think that as he hasn't started them up front together since Villa Away and has signed a new striker, Nigel Pearson might just have figured that out for himself. Fair comment? Well, I figured it out back in early September 2014. So you'll understand my frustration that we have lost so many games blundering along with a partnership between two incompatible strikers. http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/96950-stoke-city-pre-match/?p=3128607 Why has it taken Pearson so long?
Babylon Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 But you can't just say, whenever we don't win, that Pearson has got it wrong and clearly should have done 'this and this' and if he had we'd have romped to victory, because Football management just isn't that easy. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, it allows us all to be premier league managers.
Babylon Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 Southampton's youth team set up is nothing to do with their current league status ... that's down to a fantastic manager signing great players and coaching them well. Of course their youth team has some bearing on where they are now. Without that youth team the manager wouldn't have had most of the money he's just spent for starters. It's probably created £100m+ of revenue the last decade or so.
Fox Ulike Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 Hindsight is a wonderful thing, it allows us all to be premier league managers. It doesn't seem to help Pearson.
Babylon Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 It doesn't seem to help Pearson. No, that's because he picks his team before the game and not afterwards.
Fox Ulike Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 No, that's because he picks his team before the game and not afterwards. So do I. And Jamie Vardy is never on the bloody wing when I pick my team!!
Mark_w Posted 2 February 2015 Posted 2 February 2015 So do I. And Jamie Vardy is never on the bloody wing when I pick my team!! Go and get your coaching badges and start looking for jobs, The game certainly doesn't have enough, or indeed any, faultless managers at the moment, so you'll be a breath of fresh air.
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