dmayne7

Definitely not lazy but understand why people say that. He's got the footballing equivalent of the yips. He's just absolutely lost the plot. Not that I have any sympathy mind you since it's blocked the path of Monga

He is in many ways the poster boy for our problems. Like Piper but if we build around Hamza, we're even more screwed. Culturally he's an abomination

No I agree we should do that. It's just that we had a chance to do that (and we sort of did to some extent when we were successful) but it feels largely like it's gone now.

We had a chance to do that this summer and we didn't. There is so rarely a pathway for players unless they get lucky with loans (which we're traditionally bad at sorting). Rowett has compounded if but not like Marti was exactly great with the game time given to the younger guys. Nelson and Aluko should have been heavily involved from the start. And choosing Dortmund is hardly like choosing us over a Man City/Liverpool/Arsenal. They've been to multiple champions League finals in their history (and won it)

Frustrating that this is probably the must win game and that's looking like it's off the table. Not through a lack of effort/execution to be fair

Eh? Not trying to be confrontational but I'm genuinely perplexed as to how I've contradicted myself. We're talking about how poorly we manage our young players and their development, so after you sarcastically replied to me, I then said you need some context to comparing Nyoni's appearances to Monga's and Page's. I gave you said context? You're trying to compare Apples and Oranges, in terms of thinking that the for it to be equally good for the development of a player, they have to play the exact same minutes regardless of the size of club. That doesn't wash. Nyoni has played 13 times for the PL champions who have a world cup winner in the midfield for example, whereas Page has been overlooked for the likes of Winks and Soumare. In his case, you think he's been well treated after playing well, to be cast aside for a guy who doesn't want to be here and has shown disrespect to his club and the supporters? That's rhetorical by the way, because it's crap. This is after it was made very public that we would be relying on the young players, but we haven't. So again, failed them in that regard. And you make out that we don't have great young players but Monga is a generational talent. I'm not saying he will necessarily fulfil the promise he has but he was talked about many places a good couple of years ago. Because of how badly he's been managed, his stock has absolutely fallen. So if he has an ok season in L1 (where there aren't any guarantees he'll play loads based on history), his stock will fall further. He's got to have a very good season next year to keep the hype. If he was at Man City and spent a year in their under 21's, his stock would probably be the same (guarantee he'd play at least a game or 2 there). And that's the problem with the scenario you presented, they have to tear it up 2 levels below where they want to be. But the original point still comes back to how we develop players. We are dreadful at it. How many times to we play younger players in the cup? Or give cameos to youngsters? Basically never. 2 of the better academy products in recent years didn't make their breakthrough until 20+ (Barnes and KDH). KDH, was sheer luck on our part as he wasn't considered god enough. I looked at Man City this year and they've played 7 academy players, 20 or under. How many times have we ever done that? These lads are getting some exposure at the biggest clubs in the land and we're not even able to give Aluko more than a couple of mins. What about Evans when we desperately needed a wide player/striker? Hutchinson. Instead we continue to pick these crap senior pros and unfortunately they'll still be a few next year. I'm basically repeating what I already said, but the gist of it is that history suggests we don't give young players much of an opportunity. And unfortunately, you go to a big club and things don't work out, you'll still end up where you started, whereas you fail here, and you're further back. For what it's worth, I agree with you that IF we would actually play these youngsters, they'd be better off here and I wish that academies across the country were protected from bigger clubs (I include ourselves when we've stolen players). Interestingly, I had a quick check to see how many players had made their debut here and gone on to play for England. I counted 9 (may be more). In 142 years, that is absolutely pathetic for a club of this size. And that's got a few from over 100 years ago who had 1 cap, that may not even show up in the official England records.

The Leeds one is the best comparison but as you say, not as bad. But I'd say that's because football only really became a closed shop a good few years after that and Leeds' failure was, as you point on, from gambling on success and spending the money to to back that up. We gambled but not in the same way. Our net transfer spend is pretty modest compared to most clubs and it's not like we were offering big wages to get players that otherwise would never have joined us. Ultimately we were just thick and pissed money away for no reason.

I think you're missing the point. The problem is that the money you pay for that goes back in Top and Rudkin's pot for running the football club which has been beyond abysmal. Top is so arrogant/ignorant, that he will not make meaningful change, so your hard earned money is going to not just be wasted, but likely used to further our financial plight from the signing of crap players on over inflated wages. Top doesn't care 1 bit about this football club so they only way some of us can get the message across, it to hit him in his pockets. I do totally empathise with the situation with younger children though

Took me longer to post it but typed the same thing at the same time as you. Failure at a big club is better than moderate success at a lower league club. Depressing as that is, it's true.

Shall we put some context in there? Nyoni is playing for Liverpool, the PL champions. They could let go of players like Harvey Elliott (who I know hasn't played much for Aston Villa but that's because of the terms of his loan). Yet he's still played 13 times at 18. Monga's playing for a team that has been relegated to L1, where we have 2 other wise players in the squad, one of whom has been beyond pathetic yet only managed 10 full 90's? Page has twice been dropped for rotten senior pros, particularly this time round when Harry ******* Winks game back in for him and he doesn't even make the matchday squad despite standing out. What about Aluko? Again, the full backs (actually whole defence has been honking) and he's barely played? Nyoni probably earning loads more money and is basically guaranteed a championship loan at worst, where he will play a lot more than these guys have done. And if it doesn't work out for him at Liverpool, he'll again almost certainly be picked up by a by a championship club at least. This year should have been the year that Monga and Aluko played a lot (Page pushed himself into the reckoning ahead of schedule), yet they've barely featured. There was a very public mandate that we'd be playing the young players yet it hasn't happened. Motsi and others will look at that and happily go 2 steps up. Plus you hear the stories of people like Shane Flynn and you understand that there is no respect for these young players. Frankly, you'd have to be thick to not want to go to one of the big boys in favour of maybe getting some game time at a League 1 side in total decline.

Bad but not horrific. And like it or not, still been the best of the centre backs. Let that sink in

Na, I'd actually like to see them in the prem. Would deserve it and would be interesting. Hopefully a pretty short stay though

Doesn't even need to look at this year, just the way we treat young players in general. This year has just further reinforced how bad we are

Turn it on and we're playing for a draw

So much more physical than then (not watching tonight, just going off his performances this year). Abysmal doesn't even cut it to describe his axing from from the team

That lineup is quality. What a guy Rowett

I'm right here guys

But Wycombe had been in the championship which is a massive uplift in revenue. So I'd be surprised if we're talking £8m but probably more like £5mish which would be too much for us

Isn't the allegation that every Tory went to Eton? Might not be a very balanced education in terms of worldly views, but puts pay to the idea that they're uneducated. I wasn't the one who randomly brought politics into it. I was simply suggesting that if we're playing to stereotypes, that doesn't make a lot of sense. Wouldn't the left leaning people be much more 'sympathetic' but nature? I.e.back KP and not want to hurt Top's feelings? Wouldn't the reform bunch be desperate to get him out would have always been that way since he's not British? Probably going to the extremes of death threats? Hate to break to you, but this country is full of thickos and they sit all across the political spectrum. And much like the analogy for our choice of strikers where you're choosing between one type of shit and another, that's pretty much the case with your political options. Can't we just agree that those fans on there are exactly that; fans, not real supporters like those of us on here. And I live in Kent, so I suspect I'm more exposed to reformers than most (given it's the hotbed for it), and their, let's say, 'questionable views'.

Most of those lot look and sound like lefties though, if we're randomly bringing politics into it? Wouldn't reformers, ironically want reform?. Not a Thai owner for one thing? What we can see, based on the comments and writing, is that it's largely a bunch of uneducated people who don't actually understand what they are saying

I think it must be jealousy. Just odd behaviour. I know that academy players aren't all local or Leicester fans these days, but if you could choose a squad that was successful, wouldn't you want it to be all academy players? Not to mention the economic benefit of giving young players a chance to develop.

Touched on some of this in my post but re Page, I called this out the other day in his thread and had been meaning to for a while, but Page's case is beyond frustrating. He wasn't ready earlier in the season but did ok. When he was then dropped it was disappointing he wasn't in the squad but I thought fair enough to some extent. But then he went away with England U17's and came back in under King (might be wrong on that) and looked a completely different player. Had matured a massive amount in that time, especially physically where he looked well up for it, and generally looked a class above (probably because he wasn't burdened by the failings of the current team). Yet as soon as Rowett's in, he's out the door for the least bothered player in the squad. Absolutely baffling when you want players up for the fight. What kind of a message does that send to bot just the young players, but the culture in the first team. Probably contributes to our downfall. Unfortunately, as a fan base, we're also awful at supporting young players. It's not that they can't be criticised but people go in on them from day 1 and any mistake they make is worse than any other player. Happened with people like Chilwell and we've seen it with Nelson, who yes, hasn't been great, but depressingly still probably the best of the centre backs we've used this year.

People will point to some of the young players that have gone on to be established PL players in the last few years, but we have always been absolutely abysmal at developing young players. It's easy for people to say that they have amounted to nothing but so much of football (and life) is about timing and luck. There's going to be 100's/1000's of players who could have been great top flight players but circumstances (and themselves) conspired against them. We've had the best example of that in Vardy who's one of the greatest strikers this country's ever had, yet he could have been rotting away and never played professional football. The issue is that I look at lots of other teams and they might give players 5-10ish cameo appearances whereas we never do that. This year we've finally got some better prospects out on loan but even some of those have been questionable; Alves, Braybrooke going back to L2. If the club had any vague authority, or a plan for the future, they should have been mandating that at least 2 academy players (Page, Monga, Aluko etc) are included in every squad. Wouldn't have stopped some of the bizarre decisions to not use them (looking at Monga), but at least shows the pathway. Fact they've all been binned off at some point is embarrassing, especially when all 3 either proved they were ready or the needs of the team meant they should play. Said last year with Monga he'd have been better off at Man City, and feels like that's true. Why an earth would any player think it's a better career path for them to see if they'll get a chance at a championship club, now L1, when they go do the exact same at the biggest clubs in the world? And depressingly, probably have a beer chance of first team action.

Was 3 the other night. Last 4 games I think this been way higher than normal and we actually won the xg battle, which we've been pathetic at this season. That's why those Marti stats in terms of goals are so misleading as we probably created even less than we have done under Rowett

Football's long gone so might as well take anyone we can get now before the ESL comes into place in the next decade or 2