ThaiFox

Problem is that the FA and referees have fully allowed this to situation to happen. It's they who should look in the mirror, not the players who deceive. Referees so very, very, rarely give a penalty if a player doesn't go down it's almost like referees are asking them to dive to make their job easier. And I'm certain managers insist their players dive (or fall!) because they know the chances of getting a penalty are pretty much zero if they don't. As for yesterday, Marc has been caught out a few times before, and playing away in front of a hostile crowd and a whistle happy referee, he should have known better.

I don't like the Barnes Chilwell combination either! I wondered if BR moved Barnes to the right yesterday because he felt the same? I don't like the Maddison Chilwell combination either though. Chilwell seems a much better and more confident player when he has Albrighton in front of him. Barnes has been pretty ineffectual so far this season. The odd explosive run, but nothing to put him in front of Albrighton. Like Gray, he's more of an impact sub for me. Until he develops some more guile to his game, he's not in my starting line up.

I've defended Chilwell on here several times. He's the new Richie Wellens on this forum. Problem as I see it is that he isn't getting enough cover from the player in front and it's impacting on him in a way which is making him hasty with decision making, almost in panic mode at times. Rushing passes and crosses in order to get back into his defensive position. When we played Newcastle, he was poor until Albrighton came on. His confidence seemed to pick up immediately knowing Marc would do the hard work and get back if his runs ended or passes went astray. His play was more composed and this lead to his contribution of a lovely pass for our 5th goal. When Barnes or Maddison are in front of him he is just not the same player. His passing yesterday was terrible for an England international. His crossing was just as poor. Maddison was the playing in front, and although Maddison worked hard he doesn't get back if Chilwell gets caught. It's the same with Barnes. You can't always play Albrighton, and like yesterday, Marc may be on the other wing anyway. So he has got to learn, and quickly, to pass and cross properly, or he's only going backwards as a player, which would be a shame for someone of his obvious talent.

Interesting comments. In reply, I thought. 1) I felt we were pretty comfortable for the majority of the match. Their passing was crisper and better, but we were not that far behind, apart from our final or attacking passes. Chilwell's delivery was very poor for an England International. I felt he lacked support on the left side and was almost in panic mode at times. He looks a much better player when Albrighton is in front of him knowing he'll be covered if he messes up. Maddison, and Barnes, just don't give Chilwell enough defensive support. 2) Evans & Soyuncu were excellent and in control in central defense and it took a fantastic pass for the first goal. Our forward play was poor as no-one seemed to want to take responsibility. Although Praet did have a great shot, just wide, and Vardy had almost a one on one which he couldn't take due to a poor first touch. 3) Totally agree. After Maddison scored, I felt we were in control and more likely to win than Liverpool. Albrighton has done this before and should have learnt that a whistle happy referee, at an away ground where almost every important decision went to Liverpool, is almost always going to give a penalty. 4) Klopp should have more class, and polish his glasses instead of his teeth. Salah and Mane were pulling our players all match, as were our players, although the ref was far more happy giving Liverpool free kicks that us. There were many poor tackles in the match, from both sides. Choudhury's 'gentle' tackle shouldn't even have occurred because Salah clearly fouled Soyuncu as his run stated. And funny how Klopp forgot the tackle on Tielemans too. 5) Hopefully, we will learn, but as we're the leading team in the P/L for losing matches in injury time (4 since the start of last season) it certainly hasn't sunk into the players heads yet.

I agree. Our set up left him exposed. Chilwell looks better if he has some help on the left flank and playing Maddison there leaves him over exposed, even more so when you have fast and very skillful players on that side. Even against Newcastle he looked very vulnerable until Albrighton came on who tracked back and supported. Then his game, and confidence, picked up His passing and crossing yesterday was very poor for an England international.

Just what is the point of VAR? I hated VAR as soon as I saw it in real action in the women's world cup. Albrighton's tackle may have been a penalty. The ref game it because Marc gave him the opportunity. No way was VAR going to overturn that decision. However, if anyone can tell me that Marc's challenge was worse than the one committed by Danny Rose in the Bayern match, (reviewed but not given by VAR) then I'll concede that VAR is wonderful and the best thing ever in football. I thought VAR was meant to ensure there was consistency in games? In the meantime I'll continue to say that VAR is a total waste of time and is ruining the game.

Said the same in my match ratings, especially annoyed about the flailing elbow and pushing of Salah on Soyuncu just before Choudhury's gentle tackle. The Tieleman's incident was an obvious foul. Not even a free kick. The referee couldn't wait to get the whistle in his mouth for the Albrighton tackle. Very pleased BR went with a positive side and I thought we gave as good as we got all game. Very disappointed to have thrown it away, especially as it was one of our most experienced players messing up with seconds left. Marc should know better, hes done this a few times now and he should have learnt refs are only too pleased to get a name for themselves and a blow happy referee like yesterday was itching to do that. Klopp should have more class (and some new glasses) than to criticize Hamzy, especially after Salah had just elbowed Soyuncu to start his run, which no-one in the media seems to have picked up. We were never out the game and very unlucky not to go on and win it. Liverpool were hanging on after we scored. The lack of players to take responsibility up front was poor yesterday.

Very pleased BR went with a positive side and I thought we gave as good as we got all game. Very disappointed to have thrown it away, especially as it was one of our most experienced players messing up with seconds left. Marc should know better, hes done this a few times now and he should have learnt refs are only too pleased to get a name for themselves and a blow happy referee like yesterday was itching to do that. Klopp should have more class than to criticize Hamzy, especially after Salah had just elbowed Soyuncu to start his run, which no-one in the media seems to have picked up. We were never out the game and very unlucky not to go on and win it. Liverpool were hanging on after we scored. The lack of players to take responsibility up front was poor yesterday. Kasper -7- Some good saves which kept us in the game. No chance with either goal. Decent distribution. Ricardo -8- Thought he was excellent again. Nothing positive came from his runs today. Evans -8- Excellent game again. Shame he was beaten for the first, but it was a great pass to Mane. Soyuncu -9- MOTM. Superb performance. If Maguire was worth 85 million, this guy is worth twice that because he has pace. Chilwell. -5- I've defended him recently, but yesterday he was poor and was beaten too many times. He needs more support. Ndidi -8- Another excellent game. Barnes -6- Quiet game, didn't create much and right to be subbed at half time. Praet -8- I thought he was great. Not only classy passes and touches, but some good defensive work too. One superb shot, just wide. Tielemans -8- Like Praet, I thought he had a decent, classy game. Maddison -7- Looked slightly unfit to me. Nicely taken goal, although keeper should have saved it. Vardy -6- One chance but messed up first touch to give keeper time. Ran and ran as usual. Subs: Albrighton -6- Apart from his crazy brainfart to cost us the game, I thought he did well. Perez -7- Played very well and had a good impact. Lovely assist for goal. Choudhury -6- Not really on long enough, but nice tackle on Salah after he elbowed Soyuncu. BR -7- Good set up. Apart from a lack of players taking responsibility up front we played well and showed a lot of class. I think he's learnt from the Man Utd disaster, because if we'd played like yesterday we'd have won that match. Officials -4- Far too quick to whistle up. Couldn't wait to give penalty. Many Liverpool fouls went unpunished, including two howlers, Salah on Soyuncu, and Tielemand was booted in the shin and ended up in the advertising hording. Both teams guilty of arms around necks (90% of free kicks went in Liverpool's favour) VAR -0- Should be binned as quickly as possible. It's a total disgrace and I just can't see the point. Burnley next. A tough match as they will grind away and are doing well in their usual boot it style this season.

Let's at least give it a go. We are good enough for that. Whatever, please BR, don't go there with an already beaten look about the team, like that dreadful Man Utd performance.

And.................. Soyuncu, Tielemans, Maddison & Evans. And thanks for bringing through Chilwell, Choudhury & Barnes, who I doubt would have been nowhere near their current development if Shakey had remained in charge. I very much doubt if BR would have even considered coming here with the squad, and the playing style, that Shakey had in place. Good luck Claude. I, for one, appreciated a lot of what you did for our club.

Except the report that has already concluded that VAR can be as much as 13-14 cms out on offside decisions. To my reckoning, that makes at least four goals, disallowed so far this season, could well have been the wrong VAR decision, including the Son offside against us. As for diving. Referees (and the FA) have brought this upon themselves. They very, very rarely give a penalty if the player doesn't go over. The players are having to fall because it's virtually the only way they will get a penalty. VAR should be able to clear this up, but so far it's not proved anymore effective than what we had before. In fact, after watching the women's world cup, I would say it's actually worse on decision making. VAR will reduce the quality of referees and linesmen. They will rely more and more on VAR and the 4th off field official, rather than making their own firm and final decision.

I know exactly what your saying, and I understand the 'clear and obvious error' part of VAR. I'm just trying to get my head around why and what is the point of it? VAR was introduced to ensure decisions are fair and just. It's not just the Spuds v Bayern match. How about the many other very debatable decisions so far since it's introduction? All showing that VAR provides just as many mistakes and errors as the referee on the field. Plus we've already had a report showing it could be as much as 13-14cms out on offside decisions which would probably make VAR offside errors at around the same rate as any linesman on the field. As ozleicester says above:

I'm glad he quit. He was wasted, undervalued and underused there. He had the sense to quit because it will prolong his career with us for at least another season or three, because he hasn't got the travelling, training and then the huge responsibility of warming the subs bench, with maybe a 10 minute cameo where no-one passes to him anyway. England had no idea of what a gem of a player Jamie Vardy is.

I agree that there have been incidents of bent refs or decisions made because referees are terrified of giving away teams favourable decisions, especially in Europe. My grouse with VAR is that it is meant to be there to correct mistakes. The report I read, and posted on here a few weeks ago, stated VAR could be as much as 13-14 cms out on offside decisions. Therefore several of the goals disallowed, or given, for offsides this season could already have been VAR incorrect. And, even if the Bayern player looked for contact, surely the speed and two footed scything down of a player without winning the ball is a surely a penalty all day long? You don't 100% agree with me, but you would have also given a penalty? I can also understand the referee taking a different view. The fact he initially indicated it as a dive showed that. My point is that if VAR is there to correct, or confirm, referees decisions. VAR should have overruled that decision after seeing the speed that Rose scythed two footed without winning the ball, into the Bayern forward which gave him little chance of avoiding contact. Of course he might have been able to jump, he may even have been looking for it, but why should he back off or jump? The tackle was a foul. I've watched it several times, both in real time and slow motion, and I'm still amazed VAR didn't overrule it as a penalty! (as were both the match commentators). It was far more a penalty than the one that Spuds were awarded, which was very soft. And would not a free kick have been awarded if Rose's tackle had happened on any other part of the pitch?

Obviously................ No-one in their right mind would employ OGS!

Can't believe Spuds would consider Wilder. Can't believe Wilder would want that job anyway. Can believe Poch going to Man Utd, but Levy has stated he wants 65 million to release him. Can't believe any club in their right mind would want to employ OGS! Can believe Steve Bruce will be out at Newcastle by Xmas.

Maybe BR could offer him a months free rent in return for us getting a win on Saturday?

After 50 odd years of supporting City, as the season starts all I want is us to get to 40 points. Once we're past that I can relax, and then it's all about getting to the best we can. I've seen too many decent times go to pot due to pisspoor management. We're always one manager away from that, although with our current owners we've seen they are not afraid to act quickly if required. Having said all that, I really think this season is on for top 4, mainly because everyone apart from Man City & Liverpool are very beatable and the usual contenders are all in turmoil or transitional periods. So, going back to the question, I would not take 5th if offered now.

I agree. Poch has said in public that he feels undermined by Levy in the transfer market. Any manager going there will be under the same pressure. And some of Levy's transfer offers of recent times defy belief. With the huge stadium debt to pay off, it's going to be difficult for any manager going there. Also, I read out here that Levy has put a 65 million price tag on anyone poaching Poch. It will also cost Levy 35 million to fire him. As for Man Utd, they are in such a huge mess it'll take several seasons to get them back to anywhere near what they were. They certainly wont be challenging for the title anytime soon. Another point is the so called big clubs love a foreign coach, so I'm not sure they'd go for BR anyway. Just on the basis we have a really decent squad and set up, I'd be disappointed if he went before his contract ends, unless he's sacked of course!

Danny Rose challenge was stone wall penalty. He took the players legs, made no contact with the ball, and both commentators (one was former Spuds player Clive Allen) couldn't believe it wasn't overturned. Without question, the Rose challenge was a clear and obvious referee error. Insufficient contact? He scythed both his legs away! Anyone watching it again would surely agree? The Kane penalty was a coming together of two players raising their legs high. The decision could just as easily have been a free kick to Bayern. It was a very soft penalty and could have gone either way, and again, both commentators thought it a very debatable decision which went in the favour of Spuds. Maybe VAR felt it couldn't overrule the referees decision, and maybe it wasn't a clear and obvious error, but it certainly wasn't a clear an obvious penalty either. VAR was introduced to overturn incorrect referee decisions, not to back them up, which is what I thought happened in this match and is why I am totally against VAR.

I'm not so sure about Levy. He's made out to be this 'shrewd businessman' but some of his recent decisions have made him look more like a novice. He hasn't learnt from the Arsenal situation. A huge stadium, but no real investment in the squad. Asking 100 million for Eriksen who is in the last year of his contract and can sign for another club for free in January. Asking a reported 65 million for Poch if he moves on, and I understand it will cost Levy 35 million to sack him. Giving Sissoko a 4 year deal at 30 years old, but refusing to offer Alderweireld, one year older, anything more that a one year deal. This is bound to cause squad unrest. Being in charge of transfers and not involving Poch. Even Poch has said in public he feels undermined and not a real manager. Offering the most silly transfer deals to incoming players, which always seem to include a transfer fee based on them winning the C/L. I agree he's run the club better than the Glaziers at Man Utd, but most clubs in the forth tier are run better than Man Utd currently. I agree the new stadium is superb. However, the new stadium could set them back years, and with that millstone around their neck they could be in for a very lean time if things are not sorted at Spuds soon. Levy has allowed it to happen, which is not the actions of a 'shrewd businessman' and I can fully see why Spuds fans are putting blame on him for their current woes.

Unlike you I'm not a fan of VAR because it causes just as much controversy before it came in. I agree with your comment about the Aubeyang goal. But then I watched the whole of the Spuds v Bayern match yesterday and I couldn't believe VAR did not overturn two penalty decisions. The first was the one given, which both commentators said was never a penalty. The ref gave it, it went to VAR and was given and Kane scored. Later in the match, Danny Rose clearly sliced the legs away from a Bayern forward, but the ref waved it away as a dive. Again it went to VAR and it was not given. Rose got nowhere near the ball and clearly took the forwards legs. Again both commentators said a definite penalty and they could not believe it wasn't given. The only reason the commentators could come up with as to why both these decisions were not overturned was to 'not undermine the referees decisions'. Well, if that's the case, just what is the point of VAR? And if those decisions had been reversed the score would have ended as 1-8 not 2-7!

I have to fully agree. Their worst start for 30 odd years, when they have a squad worth over half a billion! Maguire was almost a panic buy because there were so few players available and they were desperate for a centre back. OGS wouldn't have got a job with any other P/L team. It's almost embarrassing as to how out of his depth he is. His credit with Man Utd fans will soon run out and he'll have gone from hero to zero. Their early form under him was just like ours under Shakey. It's after he was appointed it all went wrong. It's amazing how clubs continue to fall for appointing a temporary manager after a few good results! It rarely works out. I think the longer OGS stays, the worse Man Utd will become. I can't see top players wanting to go to a team which is constantly lambasted as being the worst Man Utd team in P/L history. I honestly can't imagine why on earth Maguire wanted to go there. I know it's Man Utd, I know his wages would have doubled, but being in a team dubbed as the worst Man Utd team in P/L history isn't much to write home about. Just look at how desperate Pogba is to leave. De Gea signed a new contract because he's been out of form, been dropped by Spain and interest in him cooled after his poor performances at the end of last season. Most of the rest of the team are not fit to lace Roy Keane's boots. Would any get in the Man City or Liverpool side? Even the Arsenal or Spuds sides? Or even our side? Dion Dublin doesn't think so! And throwing the kids in now will be much tougher for them that it would be for us, because they will be expected to perform. Mid table is not an option for a team like Man Utd. If they finish top 6 I'll be very surprised. (Fat Sam's still available if they get in a relegation battle!)

I agree! But you missed................. Spuds are the next Accrington Stanley!

I watched a re-run of the Spuds game yesterday and as he was warming up the commentator said 'looks like Marc Albrighton's coming on'! I thought he was a little lightweight during the first 20 minutes against Newcastle, but as his confidence grew he looked really classy and played some lovely passes and some nice touches. I thought he improved Tielemans too. His best game for us this season by far.