Iwebema

I lost too much faith we can stay up last night, palace were so so bad and we still lost. But I do keep looking at the table and think you might only need 25 points to stay up haha

Unfortunately we are stuck with him, PSR means we'd need 20m to break even. The only positive I have is he was brilliant in the championship with Norwich

Southampton could be about 5 up, they are absolutely destroying man united

Oh OK, sorry i didnt realise you would take it so literal and could of figured out the intent, apologies, he was incharge of assembling the additions to the squad on top of what we had in the summer and it was a disaster. I do agree though him and RVN are symptoms of the real problem 👌

What part is bonkers in particular?

It is an interesting topic, I think its a bit of both, I'm not entirely convinced Cooper knew Okoli or BEK, but I may be doing him a disservice. I think what we most likely do is ask the manager what type of player he wants in what position and then we go an aquire them. But there is certainly evidence of managers demanding certain players join, rodgers from memory was obsessed with fofana, enzo wanted casadei and senesi (january signing that didnt materialse was that his name?) This is what made the cooper signing so bizarre, we recruited a team built to play enzo ball, rewarded vestergaard with a 3 year deal whose positive attributes are to play in that type of system and then bought in cooper, signed players for him that were just experienced runners and now we wonder why (well I think the board and those around it are wondering why) the team is unbalanced and struggling. There's no football direction outside of wanting to play decent "attractive" football, that's as in depth as the thinking has gone. We are winging it manager to manager, signing to signing. As for the last point on the running down of contracts, that alone in isolation of everything else would not happen to a proper club. Or at least not one that had to of known if was playing with PSR fire and couldn't afford to let assets depreciate and leave. Theres no real forward thinking to how we operate other than the current season we are in at the time, we don't think beyond it. Just repeating myself alot the last 24 hours, I'm just really annoyed 😅 but until we see major changes we won't get close to being a stable premier league team, we are on a downward trajectory, perhaps another couple of yoyo seasons while some of the parachut payments are there and we have some players hanging over from the premier league days, but once the money starts to dry up and the quality of player continues to dwindle, I struggle to see how we won't just become another failed prem team.

Unreal there are STILL cooper followers out there. It's actually beggars belief. He was absolutely awful, one of the worst we've ever had, just because RVN hasn't done well either doesn't mean we should of stuck with him, we would be no better off, still just as rubbish! Plus even if for some absolutely bonkers reason you thought he was doing well, the players hated him, so it couldn't continue anyway (the player power debate is a separate argument) That a side they are both symptoms of the real problem, poor scouting, poor recruitment strategies (mis matching styles, age, profile), mis management of player contracts, chopping and changing managerial styles and philosophies. There is so much wrong with how we operate as a club it's scary to think how many more poor decisions we are away from being the next coventry/sunderland/derby/Leeds, because I don't think it's far off unless we see some serious changes.

I have lost alot of faith after last night, the hope I think comes from Ipswich, Everton and wolves are all in a similar position of being bad, it will just take 2 of the 4 to find a little something. I honestly think the gap is such you might find all 4 end up on less than 30 points.

Because they have extremely low overheads, they essentially had a league one team, certainly in terms of wage bill and don't have 2 years of previous catastrophic mis management. We were starting PSR this year with seasons of mis management hampering us and an extremely high wage bill.

I love your optimism that we will even gather another 2 points total the rest of the season 😅 Joking aside it's definitely not over.... but it is hard to see how and where we pick up points after last night. I've definitely lost faith, I of course would love to be wrong but we've seen enough football to know where this is heading I think. The gap between our back 4 and strikers to the rest of the premier league is enourmous. One thing is I hope the board are thinking about this now and not deluding themselves that it will be fine, need to start preparing now for the worst, make signings with a view to next season, my worry is we will spend money on players who don't want to play in the championship and no one else wants them because we've overpaid them.

I'm really worried given our recent windows we will sign up dead wood on long term contracts. We have to strike a balance between addressing team needs, but they have to be young and cheap and be willing to play in the championship next season. Have to look to the championship or abroad. Please no more premier league cast offs.

Just a completely pointless signing, 25m for a player we didn't need, who is 4th choice when ndidi is fit. And we cheaped out on finding a striker to help vardy. Another one to add to the long list of failures over the last few years from a club that quite frankly hasn't got a clue what it's doing and is only heading one way because it refused to learn and hold anyone to account.

I'm not sure he can fix that to be honest, there was a great point in the Rudkin thread about this being the same back 4 that got relegated 2 years ago, we simply have not invested in improving the standard of player, kept faith with those who have shown no matter who is in charge, they aren't good enough, they will always have a clanger in them.

They haven't, but who else could of come in and fixed it, the only slight positive of RVN over Cooper for me is there is clearly a plan and a style rather than just cling on to games inviting pressure for 90 minutes and hoping. Even if you come up with some left field names that could of come in, that would require having a director of football that would of even heard of them. It's pretty obvious to me they are just winging it appointment to appointment. It doesn't absolve RVN, but he's had one hell of a bad pass and he's learning on the job, he may never be a good manager, but I don't think we were the club to really test if he was or wasn't we are hopeless. My bigger worry is what the hell do the clown show operating it all do next? No one with any pedigree will come near us if we sack RVN, 3 managers in one season. Only the absolutely desperate will want it, It's just a proper mess.

Under rated comment. Serious proper football club does root and branch investigation on how relegation happened, leaving no stone unturned, only to be getting relegated again having made no defensive improvements....nothing to see here, just a really well run club.

I know, despite my silly comment I am 100% with you. I think that's what angers me the most is how close we were, it wasn't an anomaly, it wasn't luck, we had a model a philosophy a direction, and somewhere along the line those in charge lost their way, but rather than demand better from themselves they have ran from accountability they've deflected the blame and looked at us as a fanbase and said "how dare you question us" and unfortunately a large proportion of fans fell for it. I am so proud of what this club achieved under king power, they've given me moments I never thought was possible and I thank them eternally for that, but that does not give you cart blanche to run the club in the way they have the last few years. I have no idea about how the operation works, but I do have a long list of extremely dumb things that as a club we've done for about 4 straight years that no one seems to be accountable for. But there are alot of constants in those decisions and they must shoulder the blame.

But what do you REALLY think?

Id also like to add to the list allowing players like tielemans, ihenacho, ndidi etc run their contracts down, just felt like the whole football operation just stopped for a few years basking in their own glory. No real proper football club would do this, these are the decisions that clubs like Leeds, Sunderland and Coventry did back in the day and wondered where it all went wrong

When you can play that well, the opposition play that poorly and still lose 2-0. It's hard to have much faith. Where are you picking up points if you cant in a game like this? We should be building for the championship next season now, but that would require a forward thinking football operation who have a plan

Whoever appointed Cooper and allowed him access to build this squad is the reason we will get relegated. Squad is not good enough, and it's not like we didn't have money to spend, barely any of the signings can break into the 1st team. As a club we have not kept up with the premier league, the standard of the football operations have left us in the dust. Going from Enzo to Cooper was utterly bonkers at the time and now to a novice manager who is having to pick up an injured unbalanced squad with no money in the hardest league in the world, he never stood a chance. I'm aware it's not just Rudkin, but the whole operation under and around him needs a huge refresh, we lucked in with Enzo and he called it all out for the amatuer approach it appears to be to us fans and since then it feels like we've turned to people who will just nod along and not question anything. A few have said it and I have to agree, nothing will change, we will never get back to being a stable premier league club until there are major changes in how the club operates, we are so far behind its laughable, still doing things like its football 10/15 years ago.

I dont really know what people want him to do. The set up was spot on, the game plan was. He mixed it up and went 442 which also worked. Palace were never really in it, the players are just not good enough. You can't say we didn't create chances, just didn't take them and then we are so weak at the back. I think the decision to bring cooper in and piss 80m on poor signings has killed us, the premier league standard just gets better and we haven't done enough to match it

And that is probably relegation sealed. We can't defend. Palace have barely been in it. 2 chances. 2 goals.

I mean, everyone's smashing ruud....and so far we've had 3 great chances....

No probably 8

If you can play this well and still go 1 down. It doesn't bode well, the quality of the players isn't good enough. Pissed the season away giving the summer and the start of the season to cooper.