LCFCJohn

Welcome to the first team in January Jake

Yeah ok, wasn’t aimed at me, even the grow up part? I agree it is good to see a range of opinions. But seeing people digging others out and moaning that they are criticising is equally boring (or more so). That was my point. You cant change that many people have a set idea when it comes to Martin. But given where we are, I will say it again, this forum has been pretty damn positive this summer considering. Like what do you serious expect after 3 relegations in 4 years and at our lowest point? People aren’t going to be off each post with ‘all hail Khun Top’ are they? But as always, it works both ways. You are unhappy people have essentially a mind made up. Ok, that’s fair, I agree. What about those who won’t hear a word against how the club is being run and attack anyone who does? That is equally a case of being set in a view point and refusing to change that view, regardless of the level of evidence served up. I think actually, the critics are more open minded in that when things show more positive signs, things acknowledged.

Where have I said I have given up on Martin? I have literally said in my first reply to you he needs some time as he has one hand tied behind his back. You’re just spinning out now. Point is, moaning about people moaning is just as boring to read as anything else. It’s a forum, people have opinions and it’s a place to discuss thoughts but also for people to vent.

Disappointing but as others have said, there is no level we can be at that we can fight off advances from Man Utd for our players. That said, we could get more for them aka Maguire if we were competently run. It wouldn’t make a difference to keeping him but we haven’t exactly played him much given the context. One side of the coin is that yeah, he’s had good senior minutes for his age. Flip the coin and ask who the senior players that were keeping him out did so deservedly and I think we’d all be struggling to name them…

And there are also the same people who pile on anyone who dares offer any critique other than everything is fine. It works both ways. You suggested that to offer an opinion on things, you have to be an expert in the field and have all the answers. I assume you never have an opinion about anything? No opinion on politics for example? And if so, do you have your degree in Political Science from a prestigious University to entitle you to an option? My point is, I didn’t see the game so I looked through this thread to gauge the views. Some are obviously set on it proving them right about Martin, others saying it is early days and we need to see how things go. But the consensus was that it wasn’t great in its own right which is an absolutely fine view because it was probably true! The one thing that bored me reading the thread was your moaning and whining at people the views, not the views themselves! You don’t think a large number of people in our fan base think there are issues with the on field performances in recent times? As that is what I was saying. We have had 3 relegations in 4 seasons. What more evident do you need slapping in the face with to suggest the on field performances have been poor FFS!🤦‍♂️ Maresca obviously got the results and the desired outcome of promotion. Does that mean everyone has to follow the same view and enjoy the style? Maybe football in your mind is just a result and you just look at the score each week and see a win (in the case of the Maresca season) and that is fine for you. Others go to games and have an interest in the entertainment side and if people want to see more energy, pressing and pace to a game than walking football, with respect, who are you to judge that opinion as wrong?

I didn’t see the game yesterday as I preferred an afternoon out with family so I am not commenting on the game yesterday. But generally speaking here, and it can’t be worded any other way, what is your problem? I’m not sure people on here are claiming to be football geniuses so it’s like you’re taking some sort of moral high ground that isn’t even there. Do you not ask yourself though, if a large number of people who whilst not experts, but who watch a lot of football for years/decades as enjoyment, can see certain things that are constantly caused us problems on the pitch, why are the guys we are actually employing to be football geniuses, the managers, not capable of addressing things? Again, not anything to do with yesterday or Martin. I wasn’t happy with his appointment but will give him time as I think he has one hand tied behind his back due to the striker and centre back situation. But our recent string of managers up to now have hardly covered themselves in glory unless you disagree with that?

I mean I thought he’d have left before the season started anyway to be honest. But The likes of Faes always worm their way back in so would have been surprised if Nelson had still been here (and not injured) for him to have been in ahead of Faes. Either way, I never from when the season ended even considered Nelson in my thinking for this season but that was mainly due to just expecting him to go. So given I hadn’t given him any thought in terms of the team for this season, I just don’t see this as the loss others clearly do. The loss, as I say, is financial and the fact we will not now be able to move him on and also now have to go into the market for a centre back without it being a direct one in to replace one out. But then carrying long terms injuries in your squad is obviously a hazard of the game but a financially draining one when it happens.

Shame for him. He had quite an extensive spell out during the loan at Oxford as well. Probably one who is just destined to not stay injury free for long. Shouldn’t trigger a new contract though. From a team perspective, I’m not convinced he’d have been a starter anyway if Faes, Souttar and Okoli stayed around. Probably doesn’t make much of a difference to be fair. It is more the financial side if we could have got a few mill in a sale this summer.

I’d hope so, but to be fair, we said that last season. Sometimes the rot setting in with certain players means more than perceived quality. Faes hasn’t exactly looked capable against the pre-season opponents.

I get you, as in current gaps. Although you could argue the centre mid isn’t all that necessary with Skipp here. But we have done a good job at moving some out and shifting the culture so I really hope we don’t neglect centre back.

Yeah well we need some of them out! We will still struggle if we have Faes and Okoli in the side.

No! Centre back needs sorting. Doesn’t matter how many you score, the forward players have a massive uphill task if they have the current selection of centre backs at the other end.

No idea. I just looked up when Maddison and Winks were announced respectively and that was only 3 days apart. It could be what you say, or an effort to try and leave a gap to make them look unrelated even though however you dress it up, 2 players moving between the same clubs, particularly in the same position is related.

It’s the insinuation that anyone expressing any displeasure with decisions from the club somehow can’t think for themselves and must be a sheep. I think the forum collectively has been very fair. We’ve had no reason to be positive for years. This summer, we have seen positive signs with the sales, we can see the logic and positives in the signings even if there are sides where people are a bit concerned with. Even Russell Martin hasn’t upset us yet! I’d say from how we ended the season, and on the back of the last 5 years ish, people are being very positive in giving things a chance. People will always have trepidation about certain aspects of the signings such as Burns recent injury at his age or lengths of contacts given how we have struggled to move players on. But it doesn’t mean they are sheep or copying others options. Opinions will overlap.

Could be yeah, but whatever the reason, he seems to be taking the view to maybe extend his career by taking a lower wage but contact security.

It’s good from the perspective it is less wages going out on this seasons books. I understand the concerns about a 3 year contract at the age he is and the injuries. But to flip it, it also makes him easier to move on if his wages are lower and if there has been little or no fee spent. For example, after 2 years, he might be willing to take a pay reduction to move to another club who give him a 2 year deal where it’ll be a similar scenario where he gets a further year security.

No need to dig people out really. It works both ways, it’s a forum with opinions. Sometimes I for example, think twice about expressing an opinion in a way that might seem too negative because I just don’t feel like dealing with various people piling on accusing me of negativity etc. So it’s not like it’s just a case of people being positive getting criticism. Each topic will naturally have a consensus either way and most people will share a similar view because they have their own mind and that view can be similar to others.

The length of the contract could be a clue if he is prioritising some security for 2/3 years over a higher wage for 1 year. £22.5k over a year - £1,170,000 Say £10k a week over 3 years is £1,560,000 Hypothetical numbers but it definitely seems like one where the wages will be much lower over longer.

Bristol City signed Tolaj and Ballard then….

Obviously we are short (not a reference to Burn’s height) at right wing and I can see that an experienced player compliments the younger Alves if this is the position earmarked for Alves. Can’t say the bad injury at his age isn’t a concern. It’s no good if he is a glorified cheerleader on the physio table. But we did pull the plug on Ings so there’s hope that the tests have been more robust. If Alves and Burns can stay fit between them it should be ok. Also seems like a decent character which is the difference on face of it with the more experienced players we are signing now. But it does remain to be seen how much the culture has really changed and how motivated they manage to stay when at the day spa. On the face of it, a team with Chaplin, Cullen, Burns etc and the likes of Watson, Alves, Braybrooke should be able to be really strong at this level.

I’m separating whatever the supposed offer was from just what I think is a fair valuation. I get not taking a first offer. Even if we had a valuation, and a Leicester City type comes in with that offer off the bat, you’d be silly not to try for a bit more yeah. Obviously going with a counter offer way higher would be like my 3 year old trying to negotiate how many books she is read at bedtime! Although our way of conducting business is what I’d expect from a 3 year old . And we don’t know what the offer was. If it was a million upfront and add ones that might be met then yeah, again it’s fair enough. Just in terms of valuation though, I do get we are viewed differently, hence how we set the record 3 sales in the space of a week. I get that other clubs will not be able to compete with that. But I still think the £10 million price tag is going back to that 3 year old negotiations where she ends up with less than what she could originally have had due to the time spent messing around!

I guess potential would be also covered by trying to get a sell on percentage though? I just think us posturing to try and get £10 mill is absolutely daft and how we end up losing assets for free. Only 3 players have been sold by a L1 club for £10 mill or more, all by us this summer. BEK, Monga and Fatawu. All attacking players, will get goals and assists which is where the money is, all had PL playing time and with more than 1 year on their contracts. All of a comparable or younger in Monga’s case than Nelson. I rate Nelson but he’s a defender, not played in the PL, a bit injury prone (before this latest one) with a year left on his contract. Add to that he hasn’t had the PL exposure the others above have had, and honestly it’s not like he would have been a nailed on starter in L1 this season even if he had stayed here and injury free. All that taken into account, I can’t believe people think we should be expecting a fee compatible with even Monga’s.

All this post does is makes me need to look who Peterborough’s striker is nowadays Harry Leonard? 20 year old David Kamara who seems to have been on loan to Harborough Town last season!

I mean I agree about not being able to foresee the injury and this being unlucky. But I definitely said the club were daft for not accepting if it was £6 mill straight up. But that’s because I just didn’t agree it was a lowball offer. We don’t know the details obviously so if it was the first and only offer, then I get the whole not accepting the first offer. We also don’t know the make up of the offer. If it was a small amount guaranteed and then add ons that may or may not happen then again, fair enough. But that doesn’t mean we aren’t also still doing the whole unrealistic valuations for our players, blocking moves and seeing them walk for free routine that we have perfected over the years.

Kind of disappointed in that it looked like he was going to be involved. Also leaves us short but as others have said, you’d imagine this means movement in. You never know with this club of course! It should be good for Otchere though. Either getting minutes for us given there seems a more positive feel around the club or getting a good loan are both good options for him. He just needs minutes and experience so being well down the pecking order for us wouldn’t be great. Hopefully cements his place quickly there.