LCFCJohn

I’d have Coady on that list ahead of VK or even Daka I think.

Glad it’s not just me! I think partly it was also down to the set up but often we got punished time again down our right from leaving so much space, Bristol City, Millwall and Plymouth away in quick succession come to mind. And Vestergaard and Faes, same issue, probably thought they were too good for that level.

Or maybe people can see that because he was good at the playing out side it doesn’t mean he was ‘very good’ at defending.

Because he could pass the ball out? Even though we won the league (just), we lost 11 games, a huge number particularly with how we started the season, and conceded 41 goals, nearly 1 per game at 0.89. For context, Leeds this season are on 22 from 35 so 0.62. He might have been good at the playing out side, but we were pretty poor defensively considering quality available last season and Vestergaard and Fae for that matter were central to that.

I’m not sure why he is consistently being put at right back. Put him in his proper position and at that level he is a good player.

Probably not. Think what he has achieved. At his age, will the desire to put those extra yard, that busting a gut to get to the ball be there? Probably not. And it’s not reflective of a poor attitude or professional, it’s just natural and age catching up. Whereas if he went elsewhere for a new challenge, he might find that easier for another year.

Not bad. Although I wouldn’t want a central midfield pairing of Winks and Skipp even at Championship level. I hope Winks goes to be fair but am willing to give Skipp a go if in the right pairing. I’m not sure who that is though! And no way do I want to see Vestergaard in the starting 11 if Nelson and Souttar (injury pending) are around.

It might make me naive but regardless of the fact the players might be from a more entitled generation and be paid a lot, it still surprises me that they can have so little self respect and pride to not be bothered about their reputations if nothing else. I suppose that although certain fans have known about these issues for a while, the wider football media and even many of our own supporters are only just waking up to it. Maybe the players as well as Top and Rudkin will be finding their positions of being comfortable and not accountable to anyone more under scrutiny now.

Exactly. As I say, it needs to start with Top saying enough is enough, and wanting to rectify this. He then needs to make the necessary changes to the footballing structure. Only then will the rest follow.

Spot on. And yet it is so simple. A manager who will instil standards, and I would suggest that most managers will do this if they know they are supported and backed by the club. I don’t think this bit is the problem, not like we’d be fishing in a small pond. Players wise, it’s a generational thing. I think many players probably have both sides in them. We have just encouraged a culture of bringing out the worse in their characters. Of course there are bad eggs like Faes, Vestergard, Winks, Ward etc but mostly, they will be just looking for that guidance. The one thing this rot stops with as you say is Top. He can fix all this by simply saying enough is enough.

18 but yes point taken. We still need to be looking forward. Vardy is not the answer for the future. And even if it’s not £100k, he will still never be on anything like a wage fitting of a player of his age and contribution in that league due to him being Jamie Vardy. As long as he is at the club, this season with the contract he signed and if he ended up staying, there will be a premium attached. If he was going some way to upholding any standards or being a leader at the club, I’d think maybe he was worth a premium to keep for another year but sadly he doesn’t seem to be. Not a criticism, he’s done his time and contributed more than anyone could ever have dreamed. He is the ultimate legend of this club. But in my view, and we have our own opinions and I respect you see it differently, but to move forward, we need to say thank you and goodbye. He also deserves to have a last season or so of fun if he is not quite ready to retire, somewhere in the MLS maybe.

Unfortunately the c*** Voice one will never be known more widely than within our club due to the fact it robbed Alves of the time it did, and based on the latest injury, is still hanging over him. I do agree that if clubs are repeatedly having players like this, and in the case of Voice, nurchering it in their youth set up, the club should be looked at at an overall level. Not even in terms of deductions but just to get their house in order and stop putting careers of others at risk.

I actually think you have enough points already to exceed our likely final tally. You may need to be careful of Ipswich though if this was to derail you.

I cannot and will not ever criticise the GOAT. But going down again, we cannot afford, as others have said, to keep him on for sentimental reasons. We need to move forward and that means saying goodbye when this season ends. It is devastating that it will end like it is doing. The club should be ashamed.

The reality is, Wolves may already have more points than we end the season with so Cunha being out makes no difference. It’s not like they are suddenly going to lose every remaining game.

I agree, but there are a couple of them, like Vestergard, who I think should just be kept away from the club completely, not allowed to train with first team or development team. The attitude and culture they bring is toxic and risks poisoning the next group that come through. I’d say this for Ward as well but hopefully he’s out the door this summer (though until he is gone I won’t be comfortable). Faes as well but hopefully he’s sellable. Maybe Coady also.

Man, this makes me feel old!

You’re probably right yes. Im more concerned with the disrespect shown to RVN and Barry-Murphy. This group of players just have no respect for anyone. Absolutely mercenaries.

You know when you are so convinced you have heard/seen/read something . I had to go back and read it again but I was convinced it had said that! Problem reading stuff with the little one around. Yeah even so, the article rightly points to a culture of doing as they please and of being unprofessional (in general not just aimed at Vestergard). On Vestergard, it does seem any stories point towards a poor attitude and it shows on the pitch also.

I said this on another thread that I’d love to see us do this with a couple of them to make a stand. It’d be costly but some of these will struggle to find a club that will take them if we do. Unfortunately Top encourages this culture so it must be difficult for any manager to come in and set standards.

To be fair, it’s what it stands for. He was given one off permission and just carried on doing it. The dog part could be substituted for various other actions, it’s the principle of doing what they want and the lack of any discipline.

Firstly, this culture comes from the Top. That’s why there is no improvement on the horizon as this entitlement and poor attitude is mirrored by our owner. Second, the above is why those defending the club can f*** off. This is why it is not about results and league position, it is so much more but so many of our so called fans, even on here, are just blind to it. I don’t see an issue with players travelling in isolation on the basis we have had so very professional and important players for us previously who have. As for Vestergard. Waste of space. It clearly states he had one off permission and carried on bringing the dog which takes the piss. Based on what we hear, he is just a really bad egg. It’s getting to the point here even if we are stuck with their salaries, a couple of them need an example making of them like Vestergard, by being completely banned from involvement and contact with the first team and basically left to rot, or just paying up to get them out of the club. We are stuck with the financial side anyway. We can’t give them away. But players like Vestergard are toxic to the club and all we can do now is try and avoid new signings or our youngsters being infected.

It’s hard to know what approach we will take. Sometimes we think outside the box (Hermansen, Fatawu, Bilal) and often won’t look beyond domestically (Skipp, Atew, Reid eugh). The exotic names are of course more fun but if the club look closer to home for fill a void up top, I notice Josh Maja is one of the leading scorers for a West Brom who have just announced huge losses and he will be going into his last year come this summer. Probably offers guaranteed (as much as you can with anyone) goals at that level and could be a cheap punt. My main concern with any signings we make, domestic or overseas, is that they have the mentality we need as this is where we have gone wrong even more than talent in recent years.

To be fair, there’s so many awful decisions that have led to the clubs decline and I want to see change as much as anyone. I do think a couple of these are a slight stretch in that there’s plenty of things that have directly caused us to go backwards. Kapustka was a punt for £5mill on a young player. It’s actually the kind of we demand the club takes. Players often get moves after tournaments but it could have worked. Kind of like Daka and Soumare on a bigger scale (financially). We need to bear in mind that there wasn’t any negatively when these guys were signed so although it hasn’t worked, it wasn’t like signing Skipp for example where everyone knew it was a crap signing straight away. Shakey in charge, to be fair, I just looked and from memory the good results had carried on towards the end of the season but it was an initial run to safety. But he also navigated us past Sevilla and pushed Ath Madrid all the way. It didn’t set us back, he just didn’t have what it takes to push us forward. I think we all understood why he was given a chance at the time. The biggest shame was we lost him as an assistant. Puel, knew knows what the motives were. I agree it was likely lazy recruitment than planned out. But he put together a good squad and set us on the forward path that was ultimately dismantled by Rodgers.

I still don’t see it as compatible. Southampton and Sheffield United was both lack of investment, Southampton from selling over the years and losing quality. Sheffield United were never a settled PL side and didn’t invest rightly either. We have had years of investing terribly, spending money on shit, wages through the roof and now in a seemingly constant cycle of PSR touch and go. Neither of those sides have had that have they? It’s very simplistic to say ‘that team got a low points total and came back up so we will too’. Our situation is much more unique. Since the introduction, and importantly, enforced PSR, we are the only side to have been so settled in the top flight and finances up to the eyeballs. The nearest comparison would probably be Stoke who spent big and failed to come back. Our issues is, and will continue to be until something changes, wages on players who aren’t worth it, who we can’t shift, who have a terrible attitude and don’t put a shift in. Do you think this lot will be any more motivated a league lower? Because I don’t.