LCFCJohn

Assuming you mean 1991 as well and 2008 and this season? You’re literally picking the only 3 times the third tier has even been a possibility though. In what, 142 years. The point is, for any argument like that, you can counter it with numerous ones that reflect achievements or near misses at the top end of the top tier. Ok so we have 1 relegation to L1 and one top tier title and CL appearance that directly cancel out. You refer to another near miss, I assume 1991 when we benefitted from the league restructure, and this season which to be fair, isn’t going to be a near miss. But currently, you could point to the 2 near misses in 2020 and 2021 to balance out this if that makes sense. I put some information on one of the threads a few days back and we had a lot more seasons at the upper end of tier 1 than the bottom end of tier 2. We have won cups, had more European seasons than close shaves with the third tier. Longer runs of seasons in the top flight than second tier etc. I looked at multiple measures by seeing our season history over the decades and this is definitely not normal or where we should be.

And Stolarcryk would look better playing for either Preston or Stoke who have more organised defences. Im not defending Stolarcryk. I’m just pointing out that they are all average Championship goalkeepers and if you moved them around between the teams they play for currently, they would all look better or worse for it, depending on which team they were dropped into. Remember this forum was saying similar things about Iverson, L1 level, not good enough etc. I just find it amusing how he’d suddenly be so much better given how he was written off before.

Every measure there is to look at this is not our normal. Same amount of top flight titles, FA cups, CL appearances and 3rd tier seasons. All one, all completely one offs in the context of our history. If you look at consecutive runs of seasons, we have had more runs in the top flight than the 2nd. We’ve had a lot more seasons in the top half of the top flight than we have in the bottom half of the second tier. Other European appearances and League Cups. All achievements that have been more regular than even looking like we’d fall into the 3rd tier. Apart from 1991 and when we actually went down in 2008, we have never looked close to going down to the 3rd tier. Fans trying to suggest that where we are now is the same as yo yo-ing between the top flight and second are just embarrassing themselves.

Bit of a difference between Donnarumma and any of Stolarcryk, Iverson or Johansson…

Th entire defensive personnel and structure is a mess and he is the least experienced of them. He has to take his share of the responsibility of course. But it would also be a lot on his shoulders (and speak massively for him) if he was the one able to take the rest of them by the scruff of the neck and pull them up. It seems he has been dragged down to the level of Ricardo/Thomas/Okoli if anything. I’m absolutely not a Vestergaard fan at all. I can’t stand him as a player. But Nelson looked much more confident alongside him. I just feel like if we had any of Vestergaard, Souttar or Lascelles fit and at the ability they have, they’d have all been better partners for Nelson than Okoli has.

My early memories are the time around administration and after so I am too young to remember protests in the 90’s against O’Neil and the board then. But it’s incredible that the fanbase used to protest against owners for much less and now we actively have one who is destroying the club and the fanbase barring a few hundred won’t see it or do anything! It just goes to show that those defending Aiyawatt/KP were only ever along for the winning stuff and only care about the fact they can crow about the PL and FA cup, rather than realising and understanding that supporting your local team is about more than winning stuff or what league you are in but how you can relate to the club, the players and managers etc.

As bad as Stolarcryk has been, let’s not suggest that Iverson or Johansson would be any better in this team/toxic club/behind the defence we have. Not to mention Iverson was chased out of here in the first place.

Exactly. Someone on here the other day, I won’t name them, I don’t think they were fully KP but were sympathetic with the thought process. And in response to the ‘we’re back to our natural level’ argument from KP, they said they mean the Championship. Even if you subscribe to a natural level (get back into L1 and L2 then Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth, know your place), and you agree that for us that is the Championship based on marginally mote seasons at this level than tier 1 (but it’s close) or that our overall average finish is something like 22nd which currently is tier 2 (not always been the case), it shows a complete lack of understanding and context as to the fact their is more to it than simply what league you are in. Essentially it’s calling the Maresca season and this season the same!

Complete nonsense though. If we caved after 2 minutes, I’d not agree it’s because of the protest but I’d reluctantly accept it is a consequence of taking action that they could try and pin it on that. There’s literally no argument for that being to blame yesterday. Not that they ever have a strong argument though. Typical KPFC surface level (if that) analysis. Protest before + lost game = protesters fault with no wider understanding of the fact we lead the game and started well enough. Similar to their analysis that this is where we have always been because they don’t understand there are 24 places in this league and that there is a difference between being a strong team pushing for promotion (we have the record second tier titles for a reason) and being a side that is second bottom, 30 games without a clean sheet, can’t string 2 wins together in this league!

Fantastic post. This 2016 fan boy stuff is downright insulting and a big reason why the KPFC lot have created such a divide and ill feeling towards them. All those of us wanting KP out have these memories as you say in your last paragraph. Administration, random L1 away destinations, crowds of 7k as we competed in the FA cup 1st and 2nd rounds for the only time, JPT exit to Rotherham in the fog at the Don Valley, Pressman beaten by Lonergan’s clearance, Josh Low on the wing, thinking Zyolt Lakzko and Gabor Bori were going to fire us back to the PL after their debuts, Craig Levein going all SNP with his transfers. The list goes on. Do KP fans have these memories as it doesn’t seem they do? But then the crowds that came out the woodwork around 2014 came from somewhere… As you say, on course for our second worse season finishing wise ever. But a good point about being the worst performance given our actual worst season finishing wise wasn’t a negative season. Definitely setting a new lowest finishing position in the pyramid next season aren’t we? As for accepting relegation to L1. We have literally be in L1 exactly the same amount of times as; - Winning the top flight - Winning the FA cup - Competing in the CL This is not normal!

The one positive is the KP lot can’t blame it on the protest this time! Had we folded after 2 minutes, they could make that argument (not that I think it’d be valid but they could). The fact we started off brightly and took the lead puts that to bed.

They won’t have pain because they don’t care like we do. Highcross and Fosse Park will get more trade though!

Who do you think has gone down to L1 in a worse position than us? In terms of our financial position and how the club is run?

Those things might get us through next season but what about about after that? Parachute payments gone. No one of value to sell. How are we going to manager on L1 revenue after next season?

I was careful not to say you by the way. Talking generally. But you are not seeing it. We will not ‘be back’. The most positive outlook is a future where any yo-yoing is between the Championship and L1, like Charlton have been. Top flight football will be something we will forget about completely. Our longest streak of seasons outside the top flight is 12 seasons, either side of WW1. We will not be back in anywhere near that timeframe. And that is the positive outlook. The less positive is administration and possible liquidation and no club left.

Who is living in 2016? I would say those hero worshipping KP over the future of the club. And this is nothing like before. This is not about being. yoyo club between the top and second tier any more. If we even have a club in the next couple of years, the second tier will be something we can only dream about. We are heading towards lows this club has never seen. Why are so many people blind to it?

The Luke Thomas who even when he has played quite well gets pulled apart and many can’t bring themselves to give any positive words to. Same is true with Nelson. To be fair, all of them really need to move on as too much water is under the bridge. Maybe Aluko, Page and Braybrooke.

He’s the new Luke Thomas. Just look at the posts. People seem to struggle to think more widely than ‘playing badly = Anstey Nomads level’ and consider that it could be the environment for some of the players.

He won’t be allowed a way back by the fans now so will need to move on in the summer. Shame we will get f*** all for him given his contract situation….

They’ve come close a couple of times though, they have been looking like they’ve improved without getting the wins.

Bristol City was a blip then. With the others around us on form (West Brom/Oxford), it’s looking bleak again.

Charlton are useless. Beat teams higher up and us with ease and chuck away points to all the other teams down the bottom!

Well that’s a lazy way of looking at it by these people then because we aren’t getting anywhere near the PL again for some time. More chance we yo-yo between L1 and Championship. Our longest run of seasons outside the top flight was the 10 years from 2004-2014 and before that 12 years either side of WW1. Otherwise there were a run of 8 and 7. Not like we have spent years after years consistently outside the top flight. I’d be amazed if we don’t break that 12 season streak this time, dating back to as I say, WW1 era.

I was just interested to get a feel for our wider league performance over the decades based on a post from @Pliskinyesterday. Essentially we have been in the Champions League (or equivalent) once after the title win. The same amount of times (once) that we have been in League 1. Statistically exactly the same so anyone saying we should accept relegation to L1 but thinking we could qualify for the CL again is entitled is talking nonsense as both have happened once. We shouldn’t expect either. Both are freak events that we shouldn’t expect (CL) or accept (L1). I had a look at how close we had been for both. I.e if we’d never come close to the top spots in the top tier but continually avoided relegation to the 3rd tier by the skin of our teeth I’d think the once in each stat was a bit misleading. This is a quick look through our league finishes and this side of WW1 as it is a bit messy before that. There have also been changes to the amount of teams in a league so might not be entirely accurate but evidences enough what I was looking at. Top flight top 5 finishes - so close shaves with the CL or would have if it’d had been a thing back when! 2016 - 1st 2020 and 2021 - 5th x 2 1963 - 4th 1927 and 1928 - 2nd and 3rd So 6 x top 5 finishes in the top tier. We have had a further 14 seasons in 6th-10th place so current top half PL. Bottom 5 positions in tier 2 - to balance with the above top fight top 5 finishes. 2008 - 22nd of 24 1991 - 22nd of 24 - survived due to league restructure 1949 and 1986 - 19th of 22 So 4 bottom 5 second tier finishes to our 6 top 5 top flight ones. To compare with the 14 top half (6th-10th) finishes, I noticed 3 seasons plus the run from 2005-2007 finishing in the bottom 6-10 of the second tier. So 6 of these to 14 equivalently placed finishes in the top flight. So basically, L1 and CL equally unlikely. But we have been historically more likely to finish in the higher positions in the top flight than the lower positions in the second tier. Hopefully that can debunk the myth and propaganda peddled by KP that we should accept what we are seeing now and it definitely isn’t ’where we have always been’!

I think we are kidding ourselves if we think we are securing James permanently…. He has far better options than us let’s be honest.