LCFCJohn

This. Some people seem to think success is promotion and nothing else. Context has to be taken into account. As I said further up, in the season 23/24, the job Rohl did at Sheffield Wednesday was significantly more impressive than Maresca with us or Martin at Southampton, both who have promotions to their name as a result.

Temperatures of 40 degrees c in stadiums with limited shelter…. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c70r41x6kg5o Some things I don’t have any sympathy with footballers earnings loads (Winks being asked to stay one night a week) or little sympathy (them having to play Boxing Day and missing Christmas). But they should not be getting put in this danger! Athletes or not, humans are not designed to be running around in that kind of heat!

Rohl and RVN are very different. RVN had done nothing in this Country other than beat us as Man U caretaker. Rohl has had over 18 months (which doesn’t sound a lot but think about manager tenures now) in the league we will be in. He also had experience as an assistant. In terms of wanting someone who’s been promoted, that’d be erm, Chris Wilder, Sean Dyche, David Wagner (of those available) or people like Daniel Farke or Scott Parker. All of those names people are rejecting. Also success is relative. Which was the better achievement, Maresca getting us promoted which the squad we had or Rohl going into the mess that Wednesday are, on 6 points in November and cut adrift and certain to go down, and getting them on 50+ points and staying up? I’d say Rohl’s achievement that season was better than Maresca and Russell Martin who got Southampton up.

Norwich are ones to watch as well. They seem to know what they want and are doing it. Gone out and got Manning in early from divisional rivals who finished above them this season. They have already recognised their weaknesses and gone out to get them addressed. They were second highest scorers in the league with Sargent and Sainz in the top 4 scorers in the league. But they were 19th for goals conceded. So they have gone and got Darling from divisional rivals again. I thought he might get a premier league move or at least a relegated side. And now going for a CB from Ajax. Obviously Manning and the new centre back partnership might or might not work, I know nothing about the Ajax guy. But it’s a side knowing what they need and going out getting it done.

It’s not the market, and the Soumare example doesn’t prove it is. It is us. We chuck expensive contracts at anyone. Other clubs performing above where you’d expect them to are paying much more modest wages. If anything, we have the chance to stop being seen ass free money. When the big earners are shipped out, replace them on players with lower wages. If they won’t accept reasonable deals, move on. The question is, would Vestergaard, Daka, Soumare etc have been offered the same elsewhere? Probably no. It’s like bidding against yourself at an auction and paying double the next bidder!

Is KWP even any better than JJ? I doubt it. Another who’d be on wages far above his ability (being a free transfer) and would not be good enough if we make it back up. Pass.

They did have a better squad. But it often felt he wasn’t always playing his best side, although I wouldn’t have a clue about form and obviously depends how they train as well etc. I get what you are saying about the points total. They just didn’t seem convincing whenever I saw them. Felt maybe the points total was slightly flattering maybe. But, if the owners have ideas as to how they want to recruit and Wilder was not willing to go with it, you can see why they have let him go. Rightly or wrongly and the owners will be judged on how their replacement performs and how their methods translate in the transfer market.

I agree. Thing is, it’s not like Souttar has actually been poor when given the chance. He hasn’t been given opportunities and yet the whole time he hasn’t, we have been a defensive shit show, even during the Championship season we were. But people use the fact he hasn’t been played by a few of the worse managers in our recent history, whilst those occupying the positions have been beyond shit, as a reason to write him off!

I can see why they would get rid of Wilder. The data approach is what is doing well for the likes of Brighton and Brentford. He did fantastically well for them in his first spell and in his second, ok but did fail to get them up with some decent investment and a strong squad. For the good he has done bringing players through for them, when he has been involved in recruitment it has led to signings like Rhian Brewster and Ollie McBurnie for £20mill each. It’s not his strength and if he is refusing to give up control, I can understand the decision. Personally I think Sheffield United’s reluctance to look outside of a pool of Chris Wilder and Paul Heckingbottom as managers is what has held them back a bit. Is Selles the right choice? Who knows. But he has been mentioned by some on here as an option for us to be fair!

Problem is, Puel attracts extreme views either way. People did and still go out their way to make out he was terrible, and did nothing good for us which is an extreme view based on people who didn’t like the fact he was boring or his accent. You then get those who probably go extreme in being over positive in reaction to that. For me, he did some good work, navigated us through a transitional period that coincided with the accident. He built a good squad. For those who are keen to give him zero credit for that, we know our managers have a big say in this so I do think he deserves a lot of credit here. Obviously on the pitch it didn’t work. What I will say, and how I remember him, is he is one of very few managers I can remember (so the last 20 years or so) to leave the club in healthy place than he found it. Pearson is the obvious one, twice. But who else really? Rodgers tanked us. Shakey I guess technically as we were in the bottom 3 but we were close when he left us. Ranieri for the achievement he did have with us, picked us up after the great escape, 14th and on a positive run of momentum and left us in the bottom 3 on a downward spiral. Maresca I guess as well. So by that measure, Puel was ok.

I do think people just see the size of Souttar and make a lazy assumption that he is just a lump who can’t play. It’s not the case, he’s decent on the ball. Not as good as others as I said. But, if you have Souttar and Nelson as the partnership, I’d be confident that the team could still build from the back while having more defensive solidity. I think Maresca’s choice to neglect defending nearly cost us and we were pretty more defensively all things considered and were bailed out by the likes of Fatawu, KDH, Mavididi and Vardy at the other end.

I’d hope given both are good enough on the ball that we can find a solution where we can be an attacking threat, whether on the counter or against low blocks (with the likes of Fatawu and Mavididi etc) whilst having a defence that can balance actually defending and playing out from the back. Possibly a lot to ask for!

Or maybe we need to have defenders who can defend again? It’s been what, 4 years since we had anyone decent. Fofana and Maguire before that. We used to be good at picking up centre backs but after watching the likes of Vestergaard, Faes and Coady stink the place out, give me a Nelson and Souttar partnership. Both are good on the ball, maybe not as good as others but still good, and can defend.

Nothing like a bit over over exaggeration! You are correct in that RVN is the 5th manager since Souttar joined; Rodgers - Yep didn’t seem to fancy him despite signing him. Rodgers went very odd though in that last year or so. Smith - seemed to like him as he played under him Maresca - yep didn’t fancy him but he did like Faes so his judgement on centre halves is dubious for me! Cooper - well Souttar went out on loan but ok, for arguments sake, let’s say that was with Cooper’a blessing and he didn’t fancy him. RVN - he was both injured and out on loan since RVN joined so saying he doesn’t like him is a massive stretch. So you can have 3/5 I’d say. Given we have been an absolute shambles with a string of poor managers in the time he’s been here, I’d prefer to judge on his time at Sheffield United this season when they were great at the back and he was a top performer in his position in the league we will now be in. They fell off without him. I find it funny we slate the likes of Smith, Cooper, RVN as poor managers but when it comes to a player that they haven’t played, the player is crap. So is their judgement good or bad?

Great news. Does that mean he could be back for the start of the season? Souttar and Nelson would be a great centre back partnership!

So I actually thought the one in Kazahstan and that one that hit the wall on the runway in South Korea were at the start of this year but were actually technically at the end of 2024 (between Christmas and new year). With those, the one in Washington, the Toronto airport one on its roof (thought all survived that one) and this one in India it just feels like they have been in the news a lot. Or definitely feels like ones as bad as Korea, Washington and Ahmedabad don’t come along as often as 3 in just over 6 months anyway. When you look it up, there are loads to be fair where people walk away. I guess these don’t make the news though do they!

Yeah….why?

We haven’t flown anywhere since 2019. COVID, the subsequent travel disruption and then my wife being pregnant with our daughter and then having a little one has all got in the way. We have found that we really enjoy going to places in the UK. We do fancy going abroad again from next year but I have no inclination to fly, particularly with the volume of commercial air accidents this year. Living in Sheffield, we are an hour from Hull port and can get a ferry to Rotterdam. I much prefer the idea of doing that and doing Eurocamp type sites. Doing that as a kid, they are much better holidays for kids than a hotel in Spain type ones anyway. I feel a bit bad that my daughter might not fly for a way into her life due to my wife and I deciding we don’t want to do it though. Is it selfish to not give our daughter this opportunity younger?

This shows good judgement, going from this to Tan at Cardiff, not so much!

I actually think Angry Ginge has more anticipation than Faes. It was him who did a clearance off the line I think? Faes would be further upfield looking gormless. But the keeper suggestion was purely because that performance from Paddy was peak Ward. Some of the failed attempts to save were uncanny. We didn’t get the ‘newspaper on the toilet’ from Paddy but we got some of the others

Paddy McGuiness to replace Danny Ward?

I’m not stick on Rohl by any means. But the appeal would be that he has worked under a similar owner at Wednesday so is used to a dysfunctional club with little direction and management and showed he could get his team performing well above the sum of its parts. They had no right to survive the season he took over from where they were. They went on a great run and he then backed that up with a secure midtable finish after pushing for the playoffs for a while. Success is relative and isn’t as black and white as promotion or no promotion.

My wife and I both do 9 day fortnights on alternate weeks so we have Fridays covering child care. It gives really valuable time one to one with our daughter. Not sure what we will do when our daughter goes to school. Our full time employment is only 35 hours where we work but I feel I’d rather try and go back to working 10 days across the fortnight but finishing earlier to do school pick ups on perhaps a couple of days a week.

If he got and kept Orient up, you’re talking a couple of years. They will probably be competing in the same area of table as us by then if that was the case and he will have better offers by then. Sometimes you have to identify and get in there and let a young player or manager develop with you.

I agree with all you say. I actually think he is getting dismissed by many purely because he was a player here and seen as not a top player (due to the years that followed). That and he has a boring British name and is from the north of England. If a young manager had done the same job as he has at Orient, had no connection with us and had a European name, say if it was Ricardo Velens, people would be all over it!