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As long as there are adequate checks in place, shouldn't it be anyone's right to decide they want their suffering to end? Why should others who object to the principle have the right to deny that right to the suffering person?

You've pinpointed the moment exactly.

Barnes seems to have prospered at Newcastle; seems to me to be more aggressive around the box. Could the problem have had more to do with Rodgers' "coaching" than Barnes' character deficiencies?

We've surely reached the point where we have to take the risk and play a few more of the youngsters. It's expecting a lot of them but at least they have some experience of playing together and know each other's game. One thing that's undeniable is they'll bring more energy and fight into the team, and that is sorely needed now.

Footballing, and always been, meat and potatoes at heart. I think we've suffered from managers who are too invested in their philosophies and who bypass some of the basics in the game (fitness & effort, tackling hard, fighting for the ball, making yourself available for a pass, etc).

Contributers on here have differing views on the current predicament, blaming the club hierarchy or the manager, but most lay much of the blame at the door of the players and hold them in disrespect (I have done too). But, in defence of the players, take a step back and consider the following issues: - The apparently inadequate fitness regime - Poor personal development of players - The occasional careless handling of injuries during the game - Amateurish team selection - Team formation and style that doesn't suit the squad - Poor substitution decisions - Poor transfer dealings which weaken the squad I'm sure I've missed some out. With the odd exception, these have been a constant of our management team over the last 5 years. Add in the understandable negativity of the crowd during matches and the poisonous backdrop of the apparent lack of interest and incompetence of Top and his minions. If you were a player who started off by putting everything into your performance on the pitch but you felt your efforts were being undermined match after match by the above failings, it's understandable that you would start to get disenchanted and disinterested, that your performance would begin to drop, that the squad togetherness would start to erode, and there would be fallings-out with the manager. Could that explain our current demise on the pitch, and does that not to some extent excuse the players? It could certainly explain why some players look to be "bad eggs". Maybe they tend to be the more experienced one who are more aware of the failings compared to previous clubs they've represented.

I'm of the same age group as the elderly aunt and I completely agree. In our worst lows over the last 70 years there has never been a disconnect so bad between club directors and fans, and never such a forlorn feeling among those fans who can see the way things are going.

Well said, esp the last sentence. This should be mandatory for all contributions. All this stuff is doing my head in, and not needed on top of the whole awful situation currently with the club. 🙂😥

Kingy may not be an experienced manager, and didn't want the job, but surely he should have done better. He is a hugely experienced professional ex-footballer and should have much more nous about how matches pan out. Most people on here saw immediately the error in trying to hang on to a lead instead of continuing to look for goals, having witnessed so frequently over tha last few years and managers that this strategy almost always fails. When bringing on Lascelles it was obvious that should have been as a straight replacement for Okoli, not as a means to weaken our attacking intent. And as for bringing on Ayew ... Why are ex-footballers with so much match experience over the years unable to show the same awareness?

The wrong choice to be a captain, too; he just doesn't have the presence of a captain on the field (not that we have any other candidates).

Can't understand why Page isn't getting on the pitch earlier, even. Surely he's a better option than most of those on the field?

He picked him in the team ahead of Aluko. Is that clear enough for you?

I take it you've spoken to Nige personally?

Knowing how Ayew plays, Divine will find himself in front of Ayew most of the time.

As poor as Daka is, he is more effective for the team than Ayew because he occupies 2 of the oppo defenders with his running, and encourages the quicker ball out of our defence.

The fact that he hasn't had more of a look-in this season when we've had Ricardo and Thomas and Hamza, to name just the worst offenders, barely performing is so damning of our management. Worrying that King has followed the same pattern with his selections in this game.

Re Fuchs, it's more than sheer nostalgia. Fuchs was a tremendously talented player, but it's his character while playing for us that makes you think he will be a successful manager. And as far as our situation is concerned, from what I saw of his character I think he would be a no-nonsense manager who would take no crap but would also be good at man-management, he would set high standards both for fitness and technique, and I would expect his game management to be solid and well-considered. Obviously his short time in management presents a risk, it would probably be too early for him to be approached for the job, but it's an appointment I would nevertheless warm to.

Over time, Page will be a better prospect for us than the likes of Winks, but in order to develop quickly he needs lots of game time. It is really a far better long term option for the club to integrate our young stars as quickly as is sensible, and to prioritise their development over accommodating the "difficult" experienced squad players.

Just to add .... this sort of approach, concentrating on the youth in this way would probably give Kingy the best chance of succeeding. I can't see him commanding respect from the tossers in the squad.

There's a good angle in there. It seems to me that if, with our straitened funds etc, we'll have trouble interesting anyone, then we could look at managers who like to bring on youth ... Point out our amazing crop of youngsters coming through from all age groups, and our second-to-none training facility. The bonus is we might get someone in who genuinely tries to integrate our youths as quickly as is possible. I'd like to see our first team training flooded with our best young prospects. It would be easier to prioritise fitness training (sorely needed), the youngsters wouldn't be so tainted by our septic older pros because they wouldn't be outnumbered by them, and it would spur on the recalcitrants to redouble their efforts to shape up (at threat of being dropped) and to show more commitment.

It doesn't seem to have occurred to him that the optimum solution would be to send out a team that's not set up to concede in 4 minutes.

Can't for the life of me understand why we don't go for up-and-coming managers like these. There is a bit of a risk, of course, but virtuallyevery managerial appointment has risk attached. Managers such as these give a better chance of continuity and future progression if they do manage to achieve initial success.

There's something in this. I know there's a riskin putting a lot of youngsters in the team and you have to accept that you'll get inconsistent performances from them. But I think that the current situation with several disinterested players doesn't provide an environment in which the small number of youngsters given a chance can thrive, and I think several players who do care have also regressed with the players around them. Imagine a squad comprised of the few experienced players who do, or want to, put in a shift and the rest of the places filled by our most talented youngsters. Of course we wouldn't get instant success, but I think it would enable teams to be put together which supporters could more readily get behind. It would provide a much better playing environment in which players would be more likely to progress as individuals, but also to fight and play for each other on the pitch.

He had Evans & Aluko at his disposal. And might have had a better midfield option than Soumare had he not stupidly kept an injured JJ on last time. Albeit we have a poor squad there are always better options than our manager selects, so in no way is he blameless.

So many supporters on the WBA match thread groaned when JJ was kept on and predicted a long injury lay-off as a result. How come so many supporters understand exactly the situation whilst a professional manager and medical team can't make a sensible decision? It's not by any means the first time this has happened. It beggars belief.