johnny the fox Posted 23 July 2015 Posted 23 July 2015 Its sad to see the decline of a once great party and movement, this lot can't even run an internal election in their own party without fooking it up... and these people wanted to run the country... all this is not good for national democracy ...
Rincewind Posted 23 July 2015 Posted 23 July 2015 [Mr Freud writes]. Do they act suspiciously around children? I edited it now. It was 3am when I posted it. Found out my MP is supporting Yvette Cooper for leader. At least I know he is not against women in top jobs.
bovril Posted 23 July 2015 Posted 23 July 2015 That Blair talk - when he says "ma heart" I actually want to kill things.
inckley fox Posted 23 July 2015 Posted 23 July 2015 Its sad to see the decline of a once great party and movement, this lot can't even run an internal election in their own party without fooking it up... and these people wanted to run the country... all this is not good for national democracy ... I wrote about 2000 words earlier in the thread trying to say what you've summed up in 50 odd.
johnny the fox Posted 23 July 2015 Posted 23 July 2015 I wrote about 2000 words earlier in the thread trying to say what you've summed up in 50 odd. Your too kind...but its a shambolic state of a affairs though....what does it say about not learning from history? destined to repeat it..sad.
davieG Posted 24 July 2015 Posted 24 July 2015 Ms Kendall dismissed calls for her to withdraw from the contest to ensure Mr Corbyn is beaten. She told the BBC: "I'll be fighting for what I believe in until the very end." She said a victory for Mr Corbyn would be a "disaster", saying that turning back to the politics of the 1980s and losing elections "does nothing to help the people" the party wants to help. Haven't they just suffered one of their most humiliating defeats with their centre right politics? Perhaps they should all sit down and agree on what the public actually want and why they suffered this wipe out.
johnny the fox Posted 24 July 2015 Posted 24 July 2015 Haven't they just suffered one of their most humiliating defeats with their centre right politics? Perhaps they should all sit down and agree on what the public actually want and why they suffered this wipe out. If by some fook up Corbyn was to win..the party would do another SDP split... he would be over 70 at the next election, leading a rump... and Labour would be in the wilderness for 20 years..that's just a fact.. whether you agree with his policies or not...
davieG Posted 24 July 2015 Posted 24 July 2015 If by some fook up Corbyn was to win..the party would do another SDP split... he would be over 70 at the next election, leading a rump... and Labour would be in the wilderness for 20 years..that's just a fact.. whether you agree with his policies or not... Seems to me whoever wins they'll be rudderless and unattractive to voters 20 years of wilderness seems to be beckoning whatever happens unless the tories make some monumental **** up even a scandal doesn't bring parliaments down these days. I'm really past caring seen it all before politics at the top of national and local government has become a game played by self serving egotists pandering to big business conglomerates. Years of watching this bulls hit play out has turned me into a cynic and pessimist.
johnny the fox Posted 24 July 2015 Posted 24 July 2015 Seems to me whoever wins they'll be rudderless and unattractive to voters 20 years of wilderness seems to be beckoning whatever happens unless the tories make some monumental **** up even a scandal doesn't bring parliaments down these days. I'm really past caring seen it all before politics at the top of national and local government has become a game played by self serving egotists pandering to big business conglomerates. Years of watching this bulls hit play out has turned me into a cynic and pessimist. One party rule is bad for democracy though.. breeds corruption and a mindset of entitlement by the ruling regime... It appears people who should no better are living in denial about what is about to be... that is unforgivable and immature.
Rincewind Posted 24 July 2015 Posted 24 July 2015 You would like The Artist Taxi Driver view on Jeremy Corbyn.
Rincewind Posted 25 July 2015 Posted 25 July 2015 Yvette Cooper's speech. Who happens to be the one my MP Jon Ashworth supports. http://www.yvetteforlabour.co.uk/15june_speech She says a lot that I agree with.
davieG Posted 25 July 2015 Posted 25 July 2015 The BBC being accused of running a keep Corbyn out campaign, showing their bias again.
Guest MattP Posted 25 July 2015 Posted 25 July 2015 Yvette Cooper's speech. Who happens to be the one my MP Jon Ashworth supports. http://www.yvetteforlabour.co.uk/15june_speech She says a lot that I agree with. Hope Ashworth realises he won't be able to employ people on Zero Hour contracts if she wins.
Guest MattP Posted 25 July 2015 Posted 25 July 2015 The one thing that Jezza would do that the other three wouldnt, is actually form an effective opposition. The other 3 would literally just be tit for tat politics, playing it safe, attacking the Tories without substance. Corbyn will give them a right load of shit andaje it uncomfortable for them. He wouldnt win an election, but Labour are so damaged, they need to be effective in opposition again before thinking about governing the country. Sad as it may be, Corbyn is actually the best candidate. Would he?There are already plots to oust him according to a lot of reporters, I think his election could even see the party break into two. The fact he's even close to winning shows how batshit crazy Labour's core membership is.
Rincewind Posted 25 July 2015 Posted 25 July 2015 Also how fed up with mainstream politics a lot of people are. Why do you think people switched to SNP in Scotland and UKIP? Granted UKIP never took many seats but they took the votes. A lot of Labour supporters thought there was little difference in the parties so either never bothered voting or voted for fringe parties. Not sure about Corbyn. He has the right principles but it wont win voters back who will be put off by the scare stories.
Rincewind Posted 25 July 2015 Posted 25 July 2015 You're doing this on purpose now. Using the Glasgow accent. Dont know how that happened. The K is nowhere near the C on the keyboard.
Guest Bilo Posted 25 July 2015 Posted 25 July 2015 Corbyn won't even last as long as IDS did as Tory leader if elected. He has zero experience of leadership, ministerial or even a place on the fringes of the Shadow Cabinet. 30 plus years as a back bencher in a very safe seat does not qualify you for Leader of the Opposition in my book. We joked about Preki not being able to gain the respect of his players if appointed due to his total lack of top level background, Corbyn would be the unfunny, political version of that! He almost certainly wouldn't face the electorate, which is good news, as the divisions within the party would be such that we may even be in the place where 2025 would be beyond a Labour recovery. I think there's a great deal of idealism rather than realism going on with core membership at the moment, as well as a fair amount of navel gazing. The perception among some is that we weren't left enough under Miliband and Brown, when it's fairly clear that working class people in fact wanted a party who'd allow them to progress and prosper. We lost votes to UKIP because we didn't have enough answers to the question of immigration and the impact upon wages, questions I don't think Corbyn would answer effectively, We also need to regain the public trust in economic competence, and I think the kind of Shadow Cabinet that Burnham or Cooper would put together would restore that. In terms of who I'm voting for, it's a two horse race between those two. Cooper is underrated in my view as I think she's intelligent, experienced and speaks rather well. Burnham edges it as I feel he'd help us escape the accusations of being caught in the London-centric bubble and has the experience of effective office to lead the party well. The only way I personally would be tempted to vote for Corbyn is tactical reasons - he won't last long as leader, and in 18 months we may be in a situation where the likes of Hunt and Jarvis are more willing to stand for the leadership and we'd have a stronger leadership contest than we have now. The issue with that would be the amount of damage caused in the meantime to our credibility. I think Corbyn's resurgence simply wouldn't exist if we had one or more of those names on the ballot paper, there are certainly some who seem to be voting for him purely because they mistrust the others are Blairites.
Rincewind Posted 25 July 2015 Posted 25 July 2015 That probably sums it rather well. Reading that speech of Cooper's she seems genuine. She was the daughter of a miner and had to work her way up. She's worked as a fruitpicker at one time so not had the easy way to her position.She seems to have her head screwed on right. I have not seen the speeches made by the others so cannot comment. I have only seen the two extreme views on Corbyn. One lot saying he will ruin and split the party etc and others saying he tells it like it is and supports the poor sick and disabled. One Facebook poster pointed out his initials JC are same as another person who saved the poor and healed the sick. He also thought women were inferior to men but that was not mentioned. In some ways I want Corbyn because I agree with a lot he stands for but I also think he may put people off that are on the fringes. The time to make a change and a difference are when you are on the inside. Get elected first.
johnny the fox Posted 25 July 2015 Posted 25 July 2015 Corbyn won't even last as long as IDS did as Tory leader if elected. He has zero experience of leadership, ministerial or even a place on the fringes of the Shadow Cabinet. 30 plus years as a back bencher in a very safe seat does not qualify you for Leader of the Opposition in my book. We joked about Preki not being able to gain the respect of his players if appointed due to his total lack of top level background, Corbyn would be the unfunny, political version of that! He almost certainly wouldn't face the electorate, which is good news, as the divisions within the party would be such that we may even be in the place where 2025 would be beyond a Labour recovery. I think there's a great deal of idealism rather than realism going on with core membership at the moment, as well as a fair amount of navel gazing. The perception among some is that we weren't left enough under Miliband and Brown, when it's fairly clear that working class people in fact wanted a party who'd allow them to progress and prosper. We lost votes to UKIP because we didn't have enough answers to the question of immigration and the impact upon wages, questions I don't think Corbyn would answer effectively, We also need to regain the public trust in economic competence, and I think the kind of Shadow Cabinet that Burnham or Cooper would put together would restore that. In terms of who I'm voting for, it's a two horse race between those two. Cooper is underrated in my view as I think she's intelligent, experienced and speaks rather well. Burnham edges it as I feel he'd help us escape the accusations of being caught in the London-centric bubble and has the experience of effective office to lead the party well. The only way I personally would be tempted to vote for Corbyn is tactical reasons - he won't last long as leader, and in 18 months we may be in a situation where the likes of Hunt and Jarvis are more willing to stand for the leadership and we'd have a stronger leadership contest than we have now. The issue with that would be the amount of damage caused in the meantime to our credibility. I think Corbyn's resurgence simply wouldn't exist if we had one or more of those names on the ballot paper, there are certainly some who seem to be voting for him purely because they mistrust the others are Blairites. Lets be honest all four have had a charisma bypass....its a awful indictment of a once great party...
davieG Posted 25 July 2015 Posted 25 July 2015 Lets be honest all four have had a charisma bypass....its a awful indictment of a once great party... Is charisma more important than ability, sadly in the media driven celebrity world it is. Although they also seem to lack ability as well.
johnny the fox Posted 25 July 2015 Posted 25 July 2015 Is charisma more important than ability, sadly in the media driven celebrity world it is. Although they also seem to lack ability as well. can anybody really see any of them as a prime minister? whatever "it" is ...this lot ain't got it...
Molly Posted 25 July 2015 Posted 25 July 2015 can anybody really see any of them as a prime minister? whatever "it" is ...this lot ain't got it... A lot of people don't look like Prime ministers until they are.
johnny the fox Posted 25 July 2015 Posted 25 July 2015 A lot of people don't look like Prime ministers until they are. thats what tories thought.. and they went through a series of no hopers...until they got real.
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