Next Leader of the Opposition

[Guest MattP]

There are peoplenow joining the Labour Party just to vote for Corbyn whereas prior to the election people were leaving because of the Blairesque way the party had become. Ok so a lot of Corbyns ideas may be unrealistic but for people struggling on low incomes, the vulnerable and those being targeted he is their only hope.

 

Ken I've joined up to vote for Corbyn, lots of far left fringe groups have appealed for people to do so as well to an extent one MP has even asked for the election to be halted.

 

I'm not going to do it in the end as I would feel guilty towards the genuine members like Bilo etc that work hard for what they believe in and Tories shouldn't be deciding who the Labour leader is, plus no matter what I think of the party I do think the country needs an effective opposition, that's crucial for democracy, a one party state is never good long term.

[Harry - LCFC]

Is this how the Labour party always elects its leaders or is this a new approach?

[davieG]

Is this how the Labour party always elects its leaders or is this a new approach?

The one  man one vote is new.

[Rincewind]

I think Dave G has got it. Maybe with Corbyn adding his name to the leader contest and having so much support will wake  the others up and not be such Blairites. I do not want them to go over the edge to the left  just steer away from the Tory side. its getting a little crowded in Camerons bed. I'm more of a liberal than a leftie but the true Liberal party has gone too.

[Frank to be]

Who has said we can't afford to help poor people? We have one of the most generous welfare budgetrs in the World in this country, we already do help them to a huge extent.

Brilliant stuff, you realise the top 1% actually contribute just short of 30% of the total tax take? And you think you'll be fine just waving goodbye to billions of pounds, this happened in the 70's to some extent and in 2015 it would be even easier for people to uproot and leave. If you need a more recent example there are a few places in Europe you can look at.

Carry on with the Corbynnomics though, you're turning yourselves into a party of protest rather than one of a serious proposition for government and that suits me fine..

No offence taken, I realise I'm often a bit of a nob.

We'll make that 30% back and then some by stopping all secret illegal programmes, domestic spying or otherwise and stopping huge subsidies to businesses that don't need them (which are effectively free pay outs, "thanks for the tax, here have 10x more back).

We couldn't do without people who risk their own capital to generate wealth in socially responsible ways but your average banker or corporate CEO doesn't fit that description. They're privately educated and move around top paying roles in a kind of enclosed loop, each time paying themselves more and more and each time they get sacked giving themselves a higher golden handshake. We could do without those parasites, no problem at all. In fact, a real meritocracy would ensure those with actual talent were running the country's businesses and not whichever member of the boys club got sacked last. In a world where talent matters more than family name businesses would prosper, and the tax take would be higher.

[davieG]

The difference between the influential/majority of people in the different parties is now quite small and getting smaller that it's almost become a personality contest with a bit of who do we trust the least not to vote for thrown in.

[Rincewind]

The difference between the influential/majority of people in the different parties is now quite small and getting smaller that it's almost become a personality contest with a bit of who do we trust the least not to vote for thrown in.

That is how the Tories won.  A lot of the media stories were focussed on the SNP  the economy  and terrorism which Labour lost on trust. Labour did not do them selves any favours though with their meek attitude and leader.

I saw a clip of a recent Cameron speech were he blamed the last government for  the mess. I had to smile at that.

[Guest MattP]

Is this how the Labour party always elects its leaders or is this a new approach?

 

New approach, one member one vote now rather than just asking Len McCluskey who he wants.

 

I think Dave G has got it. Maybe with Corbyn adding his name to the leader contest and having so much support will wake  the others up and not be such Blairites. I do not want them to go over the edge to the left  just steer away from the Tory side. its getting a little crowded in Camerons bed. I'm more of a liberal than a leftie but the true Liberal party has gone too.

 

Miliband was the most left wing leader they had appointed since the 80's. Appointing Corbyn to shift slightly to the left is like the Tories appointing Nick Griffin to shift a tad further to the right.

 

How many times does this party have to win from the centre and lose from the left to actually get it?

[Bettsj2]

New approach, one member one vote now rather than just asking Len McCluskey who he wants.

Miliband was the most left wing leader they had appointed since the 80's. Appointing Corbyn to shift slightly to the left is like the Tories appointing Nick Griffin to shift a tad further to the right.

How many times does this party have to win from the centre and lose from the left to actually get it?

They need to forget about winning the next election. Many middle income and higher income earners will benefit so much from this government, Labour will have nothing to offer at all apart from the usual banging on about saving the NHS.

What they need to concentrate on is becoming an effective opposition again and that does mean leaning to the left and Corbyn is a good vehicle for that. Once they can differentiate themselves from the Tories enough, they'll win back the working class vote and once they've done that, they can start to re-introduce centre policy and become electable again with a different leader.

If they go with Burnham, Cooper or Kendall, it will be a wasted term in opposition as quite frankly, they all speak utter bullshit and everybody knows it. Tony Blair and David Camerons biggest asset is they can tell barefaced lies convincingly, a talent none of the 3 have. Corbyn is honest and whilst what he's being honest about is not something you'll win an election on, it will certainly win you trust which none of the other candidates will be capable of winning.

[Lionator]

Ken I've joined up to vote for Corbyn, lots of far left fringe groups have appealed for people to do so as well to an extent one MP has even asked for the election to be halted.

 

I'm not going to do it in the end as I would feel guilty towards the genuine members like Bilo etc that work hard for what they believe in and Tories shouldn't be deciding who the Labour leader is, plus no matter what I think of the party I do think the country needs an effective opposition, that's crucial for democracy, a one party state is never good long term.

 

Imo this makes you a bit of a knob. Fiddling with democracy but that's the price you pay for having a fairer voting system.

[Stadt]

Imo this makes you a bit of a knob. Fiddling with democracy but that's the price you pay for having a fairer voting system.

About 5cm down the page he says he's not actually going to do that

[Guest Bilo]

Galloway is rejoining the party if Corbyn wins.

I'm resigning membership if that happens!

[Guest Bilo]

It's such a sad state of affairs to see this self-indulgent lurch towards a man whom the electorate will see as a liability.

If you can, have a look at Labour Party forums on Facebook. You'll find a deeply worrying (or hilarious if you're a Tory or UKIPper) trend of Corbyn being feted as a political messiah, the one man express train who's going to end austerity, scrap tuition fees and stop child poverty. It's like watching Respect voters who passed their GCSEs.

There is serious, non-ironic talk of Corbyn being the only candidate to win back Scotland, UKIP voters, the young and the North of England. Anyone who dares to point out the sheer lunacy of this stance is met with vitriolic abuse, screams of Soft Tory and told they're in the wrong party.

The MPs who nominated this guy have much to answer for. Even if sense prevails and Burnham wins, the contest has revealed a divided core membership and a great deal of navel gazers who have genuinely stated that Michael Foot's manifesto of 1983 was moderate and sensible.

It's clear that the party needs strong leadership, but the core has a lot of soul searching to undergo as there are some unbelievably deluded types.

[davieG]

A lot of it is down to Facebook bandwagoning where people feel compelled to belong and like what their friends like. There's  plenty  of seemingly outrageous  as well as highly ethical stuff that goes viral. I have my doubts as to how many of these Internet warriors  are eligible to vote.

[Strokes]

Here we go again with the 'we can't afford to help poor people' nonsense. We can afford to spy on them illegally, of course we can, but feeding them? Sorry no money.

Meanwhile the tories economic 'safe pair of hands' continues to primarily benefit corporate CEOs and bankers, people who get paid millions yo play around with other people's lives while risking and contributing nothing of their own.

'But if we raise taxes they'll leave the country" they cry. Good. Let them leave.

They can feed themselves.

[Webbo]

They can feed themselves.

You're wasting your time arguing with cranks. Facts won't change their minds.

[Rincewind]

I  ave always said that.

If Corbyn wins it just shows  how disallusioned  people are with the rest of  the  party I am a member of a few groups  on FB. Some posts I disagree  wiyh  but  there are quite a few  heartbreaking ones. I could post them but they would not be believed.

A lot of them are angry because they feel they are being ignored  by society  and successive governments rightly or wrongly.

Whatever others say on here it is a fact that a lot of innocent and vulnerable people have been affected by cuts over the past few years. Corbyn supports these people where has others have responded with what seems like indifference to them.  Cabinet ministers have poured scorn or laughed at the stories. How do you think that would make a person feel who has struggled with an illness disability or living costs feel?

[davieG]

 

Jeremy Corbyn tops Labour constituency vote in leadership bid

 

Jeremy Corbyn is the most popular candidate for Labour leader among local constituency groups, according to the latest party nomination figures.

He is backed by 152 constituency parties, with Andy Burnham in second place with 111, then Yvette Cooper with 106 and Liz Kendall with 18.

The supporting nominations have no weight in the vote but give an insight into the views of active party members.

Mr Corbyn also has the backing of the UK's two largest trade unions.

Would this election be getting anywhere near the media attention if Corbyn wasn't  invloved. 

[Guest MattP]

They need to forget about winning the next election. Many middle income and higher income earners will benefit so much from this government, Labour will have nothing to offer at all apart from the usual banging on about saving the NHS.

What they need to concentrate on is becoming an effective opposition again and that does mean leaning to the left and Corbyn is a good vehicle for that. Once they can differentiate themselves from the Tories enough, they'll win back the working class vote and once they've done that, they can start to re-introduce centre policy and become electable again with a different leader.

 

Will Corbyn really win the working class vote back? I don't see it personally, he'll have a loyal following of the underclass, unemployed, people who are state dependant, naive students/young people and a large part of public sector workers but I don't see the working class swarming to a marxist, the suggestion he will get UKIP voters back is just nuts, the reason these people are voting UKIP in the North is mainly because of mass uncontrolled immigration, JC's answer to that was open the borders a few years ago, why would anyone who voted UKIP vote for that?

 

I don't get how moving to the left makes them an effective opposition, Blair stole the centre and became a better opposition, Miliband went to the left and got murdered, everyone who has gone to the left since the 1960's for Labour has turned them into a joke that not only lost elections but got absolutely destroyed in them.

 

I'm resigning membership if that happens!

 

I'll hold you to that!

 

The MPs who nominated this guy have much to answer for. Even if sense prevails and Burnham wins, the contest has revealed a divided core membership and a great deal of navel gazers who have genuinely stated that Michael Foot's manifesto of 1983 was moderate and sensible.

It's clear that the party needs strong leadership, but the core has a lot of soul searching to undergo as there are some unbelievably deluded types.

 

I said that at the time, what were they thinking? I can understand the Abbott's and Skinner's etc voting for him as these people genuinely believe in this stuff but people like Margaret Beckett doing it in the name of democracy? It's bonkers.

 

The members really aren't coming out of this well as a whole, the mess afterwards will take until 2020 to clear up internally, how can decent MP's like Hunt, Umunna, Jarvis, Burnham, Kendall etc seriously be standing in front of a camera in five years time and put forward an argument for voting Labour to anyone with any sort of aspiration out of life with this bloke in charge, they simply can't. It will look like a joke.

 

I  ave always said that.

If Corbyn wins it just shows  how disallusioned  people are with the rest of  the  party I am a member of a few groups  on FB. Some posts I disagree  wiyh  but  there are quite a few  heartbreaking ones. I could post them but they would not be believed.

A lot of them are angry because they feel they are being ignored  by society  and successive governments rightly or wrongly.

Whatever others say on here it is a fact that a lot of innocent and vulnerable people have been affected by cuts over the past few years. Corbyn supports these people where has others have responded with what seems like indifference to them.  Cabinet ministers have poured scorn or laughed at the stories. How do you think that would make a person feel who has struggled with an illness disability or living costs feel?

 

Corbyn's policies would leave us with less money to spend on these people though so their support for him doesn't really make sense.

 

Would this election be getting anywhere near the media attention if Corbyn wasn't  invloved. 

 

Of course not, it's pretty big news though when one of Britain's main political parties looks like it is effectively about to appoint a communist as leader.

[Guest MattP]

Are the Times trolling Burnham here?

 

[Rincewind]

 

Would this election be getting anywhere near the media attention if Corbyn wasn't  invloved. 

 

I  doubt it. It is because rightly or wrongly he is offering something different and making the right/wrong noises. Burnham may have a big lead if not for him.

Unlike Matt I am not a member and will not join to vote for him. I am not a member of any party as none appeal to me.

My younger brother considered standing but said he feels he is too honest and not say things he did not really believe in like if being asked to toe the party line. It is not easy though trying to keep constituants and the rest of the party members happy and holding onto their seat. Could be voted out or chucked out at any time for saying the wrong/right thing.

[Guest MattP]

Your younger brother considered standing for Labour leader? I don't think it's open to the general public.

[Bettsj2]

Will Corbyn really win the working class vote back? I don't see it personally, he'll have a loyal following of the underclass, unemployed, people who are state dependant, naive students/young people and a large part of public sector workers but I don't see the working class swarming to a marxist, the suggestion he will get UKIP voters back is just nuts, the reason these people are voting UKIP in the North is mainly because of mass uncontrolled immigration, JC's answer to that was open the borders a few years ago, why would anyone who voted UKIP vote for that?

I don't get how moving to the left makes them an effective opposition, Blair stole the centre and became a better opposition, Miliband went to the left and got murdered, everyone who has gone to the left since the 1960's for Labour has turned them into a joke that not only lost elections but got absolutely destroyed in them.

I'll hold you to that!

I said that at the time, what were they thinking? I can understand the Abbott's and Skinner's etc voting for him as these people genuinely believe in this stuff but people like Margaret Beckett doing it in the name of democracy? It's bonkers.

The members really aren't coming out of this well as a whole, the mess afterwards will take until 2020 to clear up internally, how can decent MP's like Hunt, Umunna, Jarvis, Burnham, Kendall etc seriously be standing in front of a camera in five years time and put forward an argument for voting Labour to anyone with any sort of aspiration out of life with this bloke in charge, they simply can't. It will look like a joke.

Corbyn's policies would leave us with less money to spend on these people though so their support for him doesn't really make sense.

Of course not, it's pretty big news though when one of Britain's main political parties looks like it is effectively about to appoint a communist as leader.

Maybe not completely win them back, but he'd probably connect with them more by not speaking like a typical politician. Farage attracts voters not because his party politics are particularly stellar, but because he doesn't mince his words and he doesnt hide behind political rhetoric. That goes further with some people than actual policy.

Corbyn wouldnt get people voting for Labour, but he would (I believe) get people not looking at them with the disdain they currently do.

As I said in my original post, Labour cant win the next election if they stay on the same path. They need to deviate massively from what they have become and then look to rebuild.

Perhaps in 5 years time Dan Jarvis will feel like he can run. If he did, he would be the perfect leader to lead a re-connected Labour party.

[Rincewind]

Your younger brother considered standing for Labour leader? I don't think it's open to the general public.

No just a local

[Frank to be]

They can feed themselves.

Seriously? Not everyone is capable of feeding themselves actually. If you can't get a job because unemployment is high and you're not receiving assistance from the state then you're reliant wholly on charity.