Next Leader of the Opposition

[Molly]

thats what tories thought.. and they went through a series of no hopers...until they got real.

 

Cameron doesn't look like a Prime Minister!

[davieG]

Jeremy Corbyn has said he is in the Labour leadership contest "for real", and has called for renationalisation of the railways and energy companies.

The left-wing MP, who topped a recent YouGov poll, told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show he was "making no predictions" over the outcome.

The popularity of his campaign has sparked a row within the party,

Ex-SNP leader Alex Salmond said he could work with Labour on "a range of issues" if Mr Corbyn became leader.

[Guest MattP]

That probably sums it rather well. Reading that speech of Cooper's she seems genuine. She was the daughter of a miner and had to work her way up. She's worked as a fruitpicker at one time so not had the easy way to her position.She seems to have her head screwed on right. I have not seen the speeches made by the others so cannot comment. I have only seen the two extreme views on Corbyn. One lot saying he will ruin and split the party etc and others saying he tells it like it is and supports the poor sick and disabled. One Facebook poster pointed out his initials JC are same as another person who saved the poor and healed the sick.

 

Did she? Her CV looks as 'career politician' as it comes.

 

Cooper began her career as an economic policy researcher for Shadow Chancellor John Smith in 1990, before spending time working in Arkansas for Democratic Presidential candidate Bill Clinton in 1992. Later that year, she became a policy advisor to Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury Harriet Harman and in 1994 moved to become a research associate at the Centre for Economic Performance. In 1995, she became the chief economic correspondent of The Independent, remaining with the newspaper until her election to Parliament.^[4]

Cooper was selected to contest the safe Labour seat of Pontefract and Castleford at the 1997 general election, after Deputy Speaker Geoff Lofthouse announced his retirement. She held the seat with a majority of 25,725, and made her maiden speech on 2 July 1997, speaking about her constituency's struggle with unemployment.^[5] She served for two years on the Education and Employment Select Committee.

 

Corbyn won't even last as long as IDS did as Tory leader if elected. He has zero experience of leadership, ministerial or even a place on the fringes of the Shadow Cabinet. 30 plus years as a back bencher in a very safe seat does not qualify you for Leader of the Opposition in my book. We joked about Preki not being able to gain the respect of his players if appointed due to his total lack of top level background, Corbyn would be the unfunny, political version of that!

 

He almost certainly wouldn't face the electorate, which is good news, as the divisions within the party would be such that we may even be in the place where 2025 would be beyond a Labour recovery. I think there's a great deal of idealism rather than realism going on with core membership at the moment, as well as a fair amount of navel gazing. The perception among some is that we weren't left enough under Miliband and Brown, when it's fairly clear that working class people in fact wanted a party who'd allow them to progress and prosper. We lost votes to UKIP because we didn't have enough answers to the question of immigration and the impact upon wages, questions I don't think Corbyn would answer effectively, We also need to regain the public trust in economic competence, and I think the kind of Shadow Cabinet that Burnham or Cooper would put together would restore that.

 

In terms of who I'm voting for, it's a two horse race between those two. Cooper is underrated in my view as I think she's intelligent, experienced and speaks rather well. Burnham edges it as I feel he'd help us escape the accusations of being caught in the London-centric bubble and has the experience of effective office to lead the party well. The only way I personally would be tempted to vote for Corbyn is tactical reasons - he won't last long as leader, and in 18 months we may be in a situation where the likes of Hunt and Jarvis are more willing to stand for the leadership and we'd have a stronger leadership contest than we have now. The issue with that would be the amount of damage caused in the meantime to our credibility. I think Corbyn's resurgence simply wouldn't exist if we had one or more of those names on the ballot paper, there are certainly some who seem to be voting for him purely because they mistrust the others are Blairites.

 

Pretty good write up as per usual, the more I think about Corbyn, are you worried what the wider audience will actually think of the Labour party membership if they do actually vote in numbers for someone like Corbyn who effectively holds the same political views as someone like George Galloway? I don't think he would last long but I'd imagine a lot of Labour MP's would already be gone before the removal took place, the damage could already be done if the party has split into two though.

 

 

The pros and cons from a Tory viewpoint.

 

Burnham - Evens Fav

 

Pros: - Likeable chap, will certainly be able to remove the image of the party being that of the liberal London bohemian one it currently has, tough talking on immigration and should be able to drag back a lot of the lost UKIP vote. Doesn't come across like a politician that will keep apologising and instead project his own vision. Real person, he certainly wouldn't forget what football team he supports.

 

Cons: - Low on charisma, NHS a big sticking point given he was health secretary for the disaster in Mid Staffs, the allegation is the only MP ever to privitise a hospital would be tough to shake off in an election campaign.

 

Corbyn - 5/2

 

Pros: Lot's of popular policy, would get a lot of the young voting for him. Right on Iraq War. Expense claims very low and clearly a man of principle.

 

Cons: Pretty much all his popular policy is impossible to actually deliver without the country running into sever financial problems, has opnely called terrorist groups his friends,  could take Labour to the fringes from a party of potential government to a party of protest. Never had any experience in any position of government or in any group where everyone doesn't subcribe to his views.

 

Cooper - 11/4

 

Pros: Female, intelligent, performs quite brilliantly over the despatch box often getting the better of many top class debators. Although she's in reality as Blarite as Kendall the tag simply hasn't stuck.

 

Cons: - Married to Ed Balls, pretty expense claims were very dodgy. Seems to keen to throw allegations of sexism towards any man who dares argue with her, even in her own party. Not very likeable and impossible to picture her as a Prime Minister. Snidy and underhanded.

 

Kendall - 40/1

 

Pros: Likeble and female, electable. Would draw a lot of voters back in from the middle classes who voted Tory in 2010 and 2015,

 

Cons: Blarite (now a term of insult in Labour) and very inexperienced, would be hated by the unions and fringes in her own party which could lead to serious funding issues. Pretty often awful at the despatch box and on programs like Question Time.

 

If I had the capital I'd be backing Burnham pretty heavily at evens, the sounds Cooper is making suggest to me she knows the winner as always with Labour will be a bloke, I don't think the party is ready for a female leader yet and I still don't think they'll let Corbyn win even if he does have the most support.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Liz Kendall would be my choice, but she wont get the job.

[purpleronnie]

Did she? Her CV looks as 'career politician' as it comes.

 

 

Pretty good write up as per usual, the more I think about Corbyn, are you worried what the wider audience will actually think of the Labour party membership if they do actually vote in numbers for someone like Corbyn who effectively holds the same political views as someone like George Galloway? I don't think he would last long but I'd imagine a lot of Labour MP's would already be gone before the removal took place, the damage could already be done if the party has split into two though.

 

 

The pros and cons from a Tory viewpoint.

 

Burnham - Evens Fav

 

Pros: - Likeable chap, will certainly be able to remove the image of the party being that of the liberal London bohemian one it currently has, tough talking on immigration and should be able to drag back a lot of the lost UKIP vote. Doesn't come across like a politician that will keep apologising and instead project his own vision. Real person, he certainly wouldn't forget what football team he supports.

 

Cons: - Low on charisma, NHS a big sticking point given he was health secretary for the disaster in Mid Staffs, the allegation is the only MP ever to privitise a hospital would be tough to shake off in an election campaign.

 

Corbyn - 5/2

 

Pros: Lot's of popular policy, would get a lot of the young voting for him. Right on Iraq War. Expense claims very low and clearly a man of principle.

 

Cons: Pretty much all his popular policy is impossible to actually deliver without the country running into sever financial problems, has opnely called terrorist groups his friends,  could take Labour to the fringes from a party of potential government to a party of protest. Never had any experience in any position of government or in any group where everyone doesn't subcribe to his views.

 

Cooper - 11/4

 

Pros: Female, intelligent, performs quite brilliantly over the despatch box often getting the better of many top class debators. Although she's in reality as Blarite as Kendall the tag simply hasn't stuck.

 

Cons: - Married to Ed Balls, pretty expense claims were very dodgy. Seems to keen to throw allegations of sexism towards any man who dares argue with her, even in her own party. Not very likeable and impossible to picture her as a Prime Minister. Snidy and underhanded.

 

Kendall - 40/1

 

Pros: Likeble and female, electable. Would draw a lot of voters back in from the middle classes who voted Tory in 2010 and 2015,

 

Cons: Blarite (now a term of insult in Labour) and very inexperienced, would be hated by the unions and fringes in her own party which could lead to serious funding issues. Pretty often awful at the despatch box and on programs like Question Time.

 

If I had the capital I'd be backing Burnham pretty heavily at evens, the sounds Cooper is making suggest to me she knows the winner as always with Labour will be a bloke, I don't think the party is ready for a female leader yet and I still don't think they'll let Corbyn win even if he does have the most support.

Matt I'm getting worried, I pretty much agree with your view on all the candidates.

[Benji]

I'll give Corbyn one thing, at least he's spending his time talking about his policies rather than internal party politics. 

 

I listened to the leader's debate the other day (broadcast on LBC maybe?) and with the other three you'd quite easily forget these people were voted representatives of their constituency.  "We don't agree with the welfare bill, but we voted for it for a stronger Labour party."  I'm sorry, but what?  How about unanimously voting against it...?

[Guest MattP]

Matt I'm getting worried, I pretty much agree with your view on all the candidates.

 

If you were a member where would your vote go?

[Bilo]

I'm equally worried, because I agree with most of what you've said. 

 

That being said, I think Andy Burnham has been unfairly dragged into the Mid Staffs scandal. He became Health Secretary in June 2009 and launched an inquiry into the scandal within four weeks, something that's in danger of being forgotten here.

[purpleronnie]

If you were a member where would your vote go?

TBH no-one stands out to me...which is a worry but if I had to I would go for Burnham, he seems able to hold his own, doesn't seem bothered about upsetting the established labour voters or indeed his own party, we need that.  Although having said that he's left wing enough to please a decent wedge of existing voters and apease those who think we should avoid going too far left.

[Christoph]

Corbyn is the only one offering something different, the rest just come across as another conservative lite 2.0.  

[Stadt]

Corbyn is the only one offering something different, the rest just come across as another conservative lite 2.0.

Oh look we were beaten by the party further to the right so we'll move further to the left to get elected

[Guest MattP]

Corbyn is the only one offering something different, the rest just come across as another conservative lite 2.0.  

 

But would people vote for Syriza 2.0 over conservative lite 2.0?

[Christoph]

Oh look we were beaten by the party further to the right so we'll move further to the left to get elected

 

It's not exactly unpredictable to think more people will want to vote left after 4 years of conservative public budget cuts is it? Enough to win the election? Who knows...doubtful if the papers do another character smear campaign. 

[Stadt]

It's not exactly unpredictable to think more people will want to vote left after 4 years of conservative public budget cuts is it? Enough to win the election? Who knows...doubtful if the papers do another character smear campaign.

People probably will but they won't vote for Corbyn unless they have a half a brain because there's no way he's a leader. The UK electorate are firmly entrenched in the centre, Burnham and co can potentially win over former labour voters that voted Tory whereas Corbyn is more likely to put people off.

Corbyn is popular with people that say they hate Tories in their Twitter bio, I think that says it all.

[Bilo]

But would people vote for Syriza 2.0 over conservative lite 2.0?

Nope, and I'm genuinely astonished to see otherwise intelligent people who feel they will.

[Rincewind]

Not Labour related but never wanted to start a new thread. This is the list for the LibDem frontbench and Nick Clegg has been left out.

Genuine question. The number is twice the  number  of MP's they have. Don't they have to be MP's to sit in the commons or can they use members of the HOL as they seem to have done.

I think it was a wise move leaving Clegg out. He was  one of  the main  reasosn people turned away from them.

[Facecloth]

Not Labour related but never wanted to start a new thread. This is the list for the LibDem frontbench and Nick Clegg has been left out.

Genuine question. The number is twice the  number  of MP's they have. Don't they have to be MP's to sit in the commons or can they use members of the HOL as they seem to have done.

I think it was a wise move leaving Clegg out. He was  one of  the main  reasosn people turned away from them.

 

No link Rincey?

[davieG]

Not Labour related but never wanted to start a new thread. This is the list for the LibDem frontbench and Nick Clegg has been left out.

Genuine question. The number is twice the  number  of MP's they have. Don't they have to be MP's to sit in the commons or can they use members of the HOL as they seem to have done.

I think it was a wise move leaving Clegg out. He was  one of  the main  reasosn people turned away from them.

you could have posted it in here - http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/100556-post-election-blues/?hl=blues

[Danno]

People probably will but they won't vote for Corbyn unless they have a half a brain because there's no way he's a leader. The UK electorate are firmly entrenched in the centre, Burnham and co can potentially win over former labour voters that voted Tory whereas Corbyn is more likely to put people off.

Corbyn is popular with people that say they hate Tories in their Twitter bio, I think that says it all.

lol

[Guest MattP]

Soon as I say I'd hammer Burnham he jumps out to 6/4 and Corbyn comes into favourite

[Rincewind]

No link Rincey?

Cant find it now. It was on twitter. Delete the post if you like. Cant find any other link.

[Voll Blau]

Not Labour related but never wanted to start a new thread. This is the list for the LibDem frontbench and Nick Clegg has been left out.

Genuine question. The number is twice the  number  of MP's they have. Don't they have to be MP's to sit in the commons or can they use members of the HOL as they seem to have done.

I think it was a wise move leaving Clegg out. He was  one of  the main  reasosn people turned away from them.

 

Members of the House of Lords can serve in the cabinet. A member of the Lords could technically serve as Prime Minister.

[johnny the fox]

Members of the House of Lords can serve in the cabinet. A member of the Lords could technically serve as Prime Minister.

that's only if they have the time to get off the nest with the current pro they are hammering into a headboard in dolphin square..

[Rincewind]

Members of the House of Lords can serve in the cabinet. A member of the Lords could technically serve as Prime Minister.

Thanks thats all I wanted to know really. I could have put it in the Questions thread.

 

I did see where out of the new lords the majority were Tory. Think it was 7 Labour  Not sure  of theLD or Tory numbers. Looks like they are getting a foothold in the Lords now.

[Guest MattP]

Thanks thats all I wanted to know really. I could have put it in the Questions thread.

 

I did see where out of the new lords the majority were Tory. Think it was 7 Labour  Not sure  of theLD or Tory numbers. Looks like they are getting a foothold in the Lords now.

 

Who is?