Next Leader of the Opposition

[Rincewind]

Corbyn would do the labour party some good over the short term.

 

Differentiate the parties.

He would raise awareness on some issues whatever they may be.The Tories still have to implement some umpopular measures. Noone knows how unpopular yet so do not ask what they are.

[Danno]

Kendall, Cooper and Burnham can **** off to the tories the tory loving scum. The labour party has been dead for decades.

[Guest]

What a fantastic election strategy.

 

 

That's the key, "most" - There is a core of about 500,000-1,000,000 people who are floaters, these are the people who decide elections, these are the people Blair got voting Labour who might otherwise have voted Tory, barely a single one of those would switch from Blue to Red under him.

 

Corbyn would make Labour safe seats into huge Labour holds but they would be massacred anywhere outside the heartlands. It looks like he'll be too left wing to be elected by the Labour party members, yet some people think despite that he can win the whole nation Baffling.

 

I don't think anyone thinks that. What he can do is get the party discussing what it means to be labour instead of some wishy washy middle of the road party - there are already two of those.

[Guest MattP]

Watched the hustings, nothing to worry about at all for the Tories, did like how they all seemed to have more working class accents than they do on normal televised political interviews, Burnham really is a mess waiting to happen, bungling Burnham.

 

Liz Kendall is great though, I'd like to vote for her.

[The Doctor]

If you consider turning every marginal seat in the country into a safe Tory one then you are right.

 

I think you're underestimating Corbyn - it's not about taking the soft tories for labour, it's about the protest vote: masses of UKIP voters voted for them because of Farage; the only one who didn't speak in politics and said what he actually thought in their minds - Corbyn would be labours answer to that and potentially draws back a lot of the old labour supporters who moved to UKIP as a protest vote (because their heart would never let them vote tory, and Cleggs lot were as electable as a rhino in a suit). Likewise having a properly left labour will decimate the green vote; labour will always been seen as more electable than the greens. Given scotland will like lurch back when they realise the SNP have only one string on their fiddle, and a broken one at that, and have very little power in Westminster, there's enough gains to be made in there to make labour competitive again.

[Bettsj2]

I think you're underestimating Corbyn - it's not about taking the soft tories for labour, it's about the protest vote: masses of UKIP voters voted for them because of Farage; the only one who didn't speak in politics and said what he actually thought in their minds - Corbyn would be labours answer to that and potentially draws back a lot of the old labour supporters who moved to UKIP as a protest vote (because their heart would never let them vote tory, and Cleggs lot were as electable as a rhino in a suit). Likewise having a properly left labour will decimate the green vote; labour will always been seen as more electable than the greens. Given scotland will like lurch back when they realise the SNP have only one string on their fiddle, and a broken one at that, and have very little power in Westminster, there's enough gains to be made in there to make labour competitive again.

He's just too old. Its a young mans game now and he'll be 71 next election.

The other 3 are awful candidates. One of them has to learn to not answer an immigration question with, 'first we have to recognise the positive impact of immigration' no we dont. What we have to do is sort out why its so easy for illegal immigrants to stay and work here for so long.

I'm tired of hearing someone ask a question about border control to be answered with how great foreign nurses in the NHS are. We know they are. We know that working migrants make a positive contribution. That isnt what peoples concerns are and until one of the candidates wakea up to that fact, they might win the leadership of the party but they'll never win the leadership of the country.

[Rincewind]

I think the Doctor has a point. A lot of people turned to the Greens and  UKIP because they thought had lost touch with them.

Never realise he was that old though. He'll shake up a few party members even if  he doesnt get the job.

If he wins how about Dennis Skinner as  deputy? A good pairing No?

[Guest MattP]

I think you're underestimating Corbyn - it's not about taking the soft tories for labour, it's about the protest vote: masses of UKIP voters voted for them because of Farage; the only one who didn't speak in politics and said what he actually thought in their minds - Corbyn would be labours answer to that and potentially draws back a lot of the old labour supporters who moved to UKIP as a protest vote (because their heart would never let them vote tory, and Cleggs lot were as electable as a rhino in a suit). Likewise having a properly left labour will decimate the green vote; labour will always been seen as more electable than the greens. Given scotland will like lurch back when they realise the SNP have only one string on their fiddle, and a broken one at that, and have very little power in Westminster, there's enough gains to be made in there to make labour competitive again.

 

This is just bonkers mate, the Greens I'll give you but Jeremy Corbyn winning back the UKIP voters? Have a think as to why the white working class have moved from Labour to UKIP, you don't really think Corbyn's policy on open door immigration is going to grab those votes back do you? He'll probably end up shifting those who still stuck with Labour purely on the basis that the Tories were in over to UKIP full time.

 

As for Scotland it's time to take a dose of reality, Labour are done, as toxic as Thatcher's Tories were up north, they will never be forgiven by that 45% who voted yes and chasing them with the likes of Corbyn is pointless, why would they vote for them? They have no reason too. Not to mention his IRA sympathies would be toxic across a lot of the population.

 

The latest ICM poll has the Tories in front of Labour in Scotland, they are dead and buried over the border and it's time to face that fact.

 

 

He's just too old. Its a young mans game now and he'll be 71 next election.

The other 3 are awful candidates. One of them has to learn to not answer an immigration question with, 'first we have to recognise the positive impact of immigration' no we dont. What we have to do is sort out why its so easy for illegal immigrants to stay and work here for so long.

I'm tired of hearing someone ask a question about border control to be answered with how great foreign nurses in the NHS are. We know they are. We know that working migrants make a positive contribution. That isnt what peoples concerns are and until one of the candidates wakea up to that fact, they might win the leadership of the party but they'll never win the leadership of the country.

 

What a fantastic contribution, I've not seen you post much about politics but please do more, you've spoke more sense in that one paragraph than many have in hundreds of post.

 

If only they got this they might actually start to build a movement that could win an election again.

 

If he wins how about Dennis Skinner as  deputy? A good pairing No?

 

I will happily donate another £3 if Skinner wants to be deputy, Corbyn and Skinner, Labour have lost everything, even their marbles.

[johnny the fox]

If these are the best Labour can up with...the party is finished.. I wouldn't let any of the four lead me to the toilet.

[BoyJones]

Labour would do better if they dug up Harold Wilson! He would still have more life and charisma. The current wannabies are so bad it's unbelievable. All unelectable, none in touch with reality.

On a serious note, it is really sad that the opposition is so ineffective, not good for the country to have such pathetic second party.

[Guest MattP]

Labour would do better if they dug up Harold Wilson! He would still have more life and charisma. The current wannabies are so bad it's unbelievable. All unelectable, none in touch with reality.

On a serious note, it is really sad that the opposition is so ineffective, not good for the country to have such pathetic second party.

 

They need to start taking politics seriously again, you can't expect the public to have any respect for you when you keep putting up people like Diane Abbott to lead things.

 

We've got her now on TV arguing about Greece and then when Michael Portillo asks her a question about the finances she says she cant answer it as she doesnt known much about it, it's a joke.

 

They deserve everything they get at the minute, it's difficult to even take this lot seriously as a political party at this point in time. They are making a huge mistake as well, in openly giving away the 2020 election they are allowing the Tories to be as extreme and as ideological as they want to be.

[The Doctor]

This is just bonkers mate, the Greens I'll give you but Jeremy Corbyn winning back the UKIP voters? Have a think as to why the white working class have moved from Labour to UKIP, you don't really think Corbyn's policy on open door immigration is going to grab those votes back do you? He'll probably end up shifting those who still stuck with Labour purely on the basis that the Tories were in over to UKIP full time.

 

As for Scotland it's time to take a dose of reality, Labour are done, as toxic as Thatcher's Tories were up north, they will never be forgiven by that 45% who voted yes and chasing them with the likes of Corbyn is pointless, why would they vote for them? They have no reason too. Not to mention his IRA sympathies would be toxic across a lot of the population.

 

The latest ICM poll has the Tories in front of Labour in Scotland, they are dead and buried over the border and it's time to face that fact.

 

I'm willing to bet a fair proportion of them went not because of immigration but because they were unhappy with the direction labour have been taking and saw UKIP as the protest party: A party that would never get in, but offered a statement to make. In general as well - I doubt that many actually know or care much about the EU, they voted for UKIP because Farage was the anti-establishment candidate, a real person who spoke his mind rather than the parroting toff, the same guy in a different colour tie as people saw Cameron, Clegg and Milliband.

 

Corbyns chance comes from being the Farage of the left - a proper old-fashioned politician rather than another slick city speaker as a lot of the public see them nowadays; how many people talk like they're sick of the parties "being all the same, and all liars"?

 

As for Scotland, they're dead now in the wake of the independence referendum and the success of the SNP, but the SNP will be flailing come 2020, they've got less than 10% of the house, they're going to struggle to get anything through and will get hit by it next time round; Scotland will lurch back to the bigger parties, labour need to depart from the new labour image, pretend they're a different party to the one that sold Scotland down the river in the eyes of the yes voters. Cooper, Kendall and Burnham aren't that - they're too obviously cut from the same cloth as Milliband - Burnham will sell himself as being different on the basis of sounding northern, but once they look past that it's yet more new-labour. Corbyn however is a long punt away from recent labour leaders, he's pushing it back towards old labour and the party that turned scotland almost entirely red.

[Rincewind]

Plus  Farage drank proper beer for real down the pub and never just held a girlie type glass up to the camera. He portrayed himself as a manly man doing man things. And I bet he farts and  blames the missus too.

[ADK]

I'd love a "proper" left of centre labour party but I'm not sure Corbyn is the right man to lead. Although with good and popular policy, who knows.

[The Doctor]

Plus  Farage drank proper beer for real down the pub and never just held a girlie type glass up to the camera. He portrayed himself as a manly man doing man things. And I bet he farts and  blames the missus too.

 

That's sort of it but it's not to do with being manly, UKIP became popular because they were the antithesis of modern parties, that will always secure you a decent amount of votes.

[Strokes]

UKIP are left wing.

[Danno]

UKIP are left wing.

I really hope you aren't serious..

[Strokes]

I really hope you aren't serious..

Deadly.

[Guest MattP]

I'm willing to bet a fair proportion of them went not because of immigration but because they were unhappy with the direction labour have been taking and saw UKIP as the protest party: A party that would never get in, but offered a statement to make. In general as well - I doubt that many actually know or care much about the EU, they voted for UKIP because Farage was the anti-establishment candidateg , a real person who spoke his mind rather than the parrotintoff, the same guy in a different colour tie as people saw Cameron, Clegg and Milliband.

 

Corbyns chance comes from being the Farage of the left - a proper old-fashioned politician rather than another slick city speaker as a lot of the public see them nowadays; how many people talk like they're sick of the parties "being all the same, and all liars"?

 

As for Scotland, they're dead now in the wake of the independence referendum and the success of the SNP, but the SNP will be flailing come 2020, they've got less than 10% of the house, they're going to struggle to get anything through and will get hit by it next time round; Scotland will lurch back to the bigger parties, labour need to depart from the new labour image, pretend they're a different party to the one that sold Scotland down the river in the eyes of the yes voters. Cooper, Kendall and Burnham aren't that - they're too obviously cut from the same cloth as Milliband - Burnham will sell himself as being different on the basis of sounding northern, but once they look past that it's yet more new-labour. Corbyn however is a long punt away from recent labour leaders, he's pushing it back towards old labour and the party that turned scotland almost entirely red.

 

I'd say the "rubbish" votes they stole would probably from the Lib Dems, they were the biggest receivers of protest votes, I don't think anyone serious about Labour would really swan over to UKIP on the basis of protest when we have a Conservative led government.

 

I think you underestimate people and the EU, let's not forget UKIP actually won the European elections.

 

Again re Scotland, how are they going to out SNP the SNP? These people don't care about economics, they aren't bothered, they want independence and they have been sold a dream that is way beyond what Labour can offer, you don't really think "the 45%" are going to turn their backs on them beacuse of policy in Westminster? Speak to SNP voters, they see Labour now as no different from the Tories, it's a daft as me saying the Tories need to win Scotland back, it's not going to happen.

 

I really hope you aren't serious..

 

Why not? The manifesto for the election was more towards the left than most. Where would you position them?

 

UKIP doesn't really seem to know itself what it wants to be at the minute, it's an anti-EU party that wants to be liberal and libertarian, it's a tough position to be in, they'll keep moderating as well with Carswell as the only MP in the house.

[Danno]

I'd say the "rubbish" votes they stole would probably from the Lib Dems, they were the biggest receivers of protest votes, I don't think anyone serious about Labour would really swan over to UKIP on the basis of protest when we have a Conservative led government.

I think you underestimate people and the EU, let's not forget UKIP actually won the European elections.

Again re Scotland, how are they going to out SNP the SNP? These people don't care about economics, they aren't bothered, they want independence and they have been sold a dream that is way beyond what Labour can offer, you don't really think "the 45%" are going to turn their backs on them beacuse of policy in Westminster? Speak to SNP voters, they see Labour now as no different from the Tories, it's a daft as me saying the Tories need to win Scotland back, it's not going to happen.

Why not? The manifesto for the election was more towards the left than most. Where would you position them?

UKIP doesn't really seem to know itself what it wants to be at the minute, it's an anti-EU party that wants to be liberal and libertarian, it's a tough position to be in, they'll keep moderating as well with Carswell as the only MP in the house.

Which one of their anti-immigration, pro-boss, pro-trident, pro-welfare cuts, anti inheritance tax and anti-discrimation law, thatcherite policies were left wing?

[Guest MattP]

Which one of their anti-immigration, pro-boss, pro-trident, pro-welfare cuts, anti inheritance tax and anti-discrimation law, thatcherite policies were left wing?

 

Immigration - they wanted to end EU freedom of movement but increase immigration from Commonwealth countries, India, West Indies, Canada etc? Is that really to the right of the mainstream?

 

I don't know what "pro-boss" is or what policy they had that shows that. Inheritance tax we've done a million times before, thank god most people don't believe in it, tax the earnings, tax the savings, tax the pensions, tax the dead, I honestly don't know how people who support this stuff actually live with themselves.

 

The welfare policy looks like it was in line with everyone else.

 

Is keeing Trident now actually considered right wing?

 

I suppose if you see the Greens as a party of the centre you could view UKIP as right wing though.

[Danno]

I suppose if you see the Greens as a party of the centre you could view UKIP as right wing though.

Or just having half a brain would probably be enough.

[The Doctor]

I'd say the "rubbish" votes they stole would probably from the Lib Dems, they were the biggest receivers of protest votes, I don't think anyone serious about Labour would really swan over to UKIP on the basis of protest when we have a Conservative led government.

 

I think you underestimate people and the EU, let's not forget UKIP actually won the European elections.

 

Again re Scotland, how are they going to out SNP the SNP? These people don't care about economics, they aren't bothered, they want independence and they have been sold a dream that is way beyond what Labour can offer, you don't really think "the 45%" are going to turn their backs on them beacuse of policy in Westminster? Speak to SNP voters, they see Labour now as no different from the Tories, it's a daft as me saying the Tories need to win Scotland back, it's not going to happen.

 

In 2010 perhaps, but the Lib Dems got crucified this year - what they've got left is their entrenched supporters. In 2020 the protest vote you're trying to win over will be predominantly UKIP, particularly if the EU referendum votes to leave since with the EU not an issue, UKIP will have run their purpose - which leaves a reasonable chunk of the population potentially moving to a new party.

 

They won the European elections sure, but the turn out for that was abysmal (sub-40%).

 

They're a noisy minority though, and the SNP got a lot less than 45% of the Scottish population on board (1.4m of a 5m country) - there'll be the entrenched SNP voters, but not that many former labour voters will have become dyed in the wool SNP over the independence debate; take out the core SNP vote and there's a reasonable amount of swing voters to be won over, and the SNPs lack of success this term will do for them with quite a few people.

 

Appealing to those who don't vote, the greens, swing voters in scotland and the leftish members of UKIP will be the challenge for any labour leader way back in for labour, regardless of leader, but Corbyn isn't yet another rich twat in a suit for a lot of these people, and given a lot of these people (those who don't vote and UKIPers) are looking for an alternative, Corbyn stands a better chance of presenting that image than the others.

[Rincewind]

I know UKIP have their fans on here but would any of you go this far?

 

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/this-is-what-the-woman-who-got-a-tattoo-of-nigel-farage-has-to-say--b1MSDi6qWx

[Lionator]

Momentum is gaining for Corbyn. Fed up of seeing people writing him off as unelectable when the other 3 candidates are a complete and utter joke. He probably would lose the general election but he'd go down fighting and raising the issues which need sorting.