inckley fox Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 It doesn't matter if Top is best mates with the Yorkshire Ripper. It doesn't prove that they were wrong to sack him. No it doesn't, you're quite right. But, faced with the evidence we're presented with at the moment and nothing to justify the sacking, we have to conclude that the sacking of a successful manager at the peak of his success is wrong. In truth, the only thing that will change this is if we go to bigger and better things without Pearson. That will be the defining judgement of this decision, regardless of what their reasons were. Unless he was - as suggested by some - fired for gross misconduct, which he wasn't. As for their close relationship with the king, and the success they've been helped to by his support, no it doesn't mean a thing. Neither do the criticisms of that king, the laws which prevent any free speech from questioning him, the violent opposition to his rule... I fully agree. Just so long as you don't form an entire argument for a decision they've made based purely on their lofty morals and dignity. It's hard enough to win any argument based on the morality of one of the protagonists, but the 'who is the most decent person, Pearson or our owners?' argument is especially tricky. Now I'm not interested in that argument. I'm interested in the 'good manager sacked, no reason given' debate.
The Doctor Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 It doesn't matter if Top is best mates with the Yorkshire Ripper. It doesn't prove that they were wrong to sack him. But that wasn't his point was it. He's made it clear, and I highlighted it for you given you seemed to be missing it, that the owners aren't squeaky clean and this idea that Pearson could be a bit dodgy while the owners are Jesus incarnate is a bit ridiculous.
MC Prussian Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 It doesn't matter if Top is best mates with the Yorkshire Ripper. It doesn't prove that they were wrong to sack him. We're going round in circles. Unless Pearson's alleged lawsuit against the club proves successful or somebody else spills the beans, it'll all remain pure guesswork. All that we've got now is a team without a manager, a fanbase left aggravated to a large extent due to the rather dubious sacking of the most successful manager in the past ten to fifteen years and roughly three weeks to go before the start of the new season. The clock keeps on ticking...
Webbo Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 No it doesn't, you're quite right. But, faced with the evidence we're presented with at the moment and nothing to justify the sacking, we have to conclude that the sacking of a successful manager at the peak of his success is wrong. In truth, the only thing that will change this is if we go to bigger and better things without Pearson. That will be the defining judgement of this decision, regardless of what their reasons were. Unless he was - as suggested by some - fired for gross misconduct, which he wasn't. If we're relegated next season it won't prove the decision was wrong as he wasn't sacked for football reasons.
Webbo Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 We're going round in circles. Unless Pearson's alleged lawsuit against the club proves successful or somebody else spills the beans, it'll all remain pure guesswork. All that we've got now is a team without a manager, a fanbase left aggravated to a large extent due to the rather dubious sacking of the most successful manager in the past ten to fifteen years and roughly three weeks to go before the start of the new season. The clock keeps on ticking... Still not going to apologise for your false allegation?
Webbo Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 But that wasn't his point was it. He's made it clear, and I highlighted it for you given you seemed to be missing it, that the owners aren't squeaky clean and this idea that Pearson could be a bit dodgy while the owners are Jesus incarnate is a bit ridiculous. As I've already replied to you once; No one is saying that the owners are saints, nobody is saying that Pearson is the worst person on earth. We all know what Pearson is like, how many people he's fell out with. We know how the owners have stood by him when they've had ample opportunity to sack in the last year, they've backed him with money during this transfer window. But apparently our owners, who have never knowingly done this club or it's fans a bad turn, are involved in an evil plot to sack a totally innocent man for reasons that nobody has ever stated. It's laughable.
Foxhateram Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 I still can't get over the fact that we sacked our most successful manager for over a decade with no one lined up to take his place. This is terrible management of the club and I am still astounded by it all. I still can't fathom how someone can meet all targets for the season plus much more, then still get the sack in the morning. Absolutely astonishing scenario. Cheers then Nige, there is the door.
Guest Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 I still can't get over the fact that we sacked our most successful manager for over a decade with no one lined up to take his place. This is terrible management of the club and I am still astounded by it all. I still can't fathom how someone can meet all targets for the season plus much more, then still get the sack in the morning. Absolutely astonishing scenario. Cheers then Nige, there is the door. This.
Finnaldo Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 I still can't get over the fact that we sacked our most successful manager for over a decade with no one lined up to take his place. This is terrible management of the club and I am still astounded by it all. I still can't fathom how someone can meet all targets for the season plus much more, then still get the sack in the morning. Absolutely astonishing scenario. Cheers then Nige, there is the door. Come on mate, we need the Optimism Bus more than ever now!
Foxhateram Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 Come on mate, we need the Optimism Bus more than ever now! All I hope is that we keep the spirit that we have within this team, and that we keep the setup Nige has built. He has reformed more than just the squad at this club, Nige pushed for the better facilities, the sports science aspects and the training facilities to help build this club up into a premier league team. He accomplished more than just his goal. I just hope whomever comes in next doesn't fiddle with the squad too much and just adds a few bits of quality into the already good enough squad to compete at that slightly higher level. What worries me the most is the fact we appear to be buying players with no manager at the helm, this doesn't make sense, what if the next manager doesn't rate them? Again I quote, and astonishing scenario for us to be in.
inckley fox Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 If we're relegated next season it won't prove the decision was wrong as he wasn't sacked for football reasons. I'm afraid it will unless they reveal what that reason was. And it had better be an extremely good one.
inckley fox Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 As I've already replied to you once; But the post you backed yourself up has nothing to do with your repeated misrepresentation of what I'm saying. Other than that it repeats the string of assumptions and allegations against Pearson which you've maintained to be convincing evidence.
The Doctor Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 As I've already replied to you once; Except precious few of us actually know what Nigel is like; don't confuse media persona for the real person...
Webbo Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 But the post you backed yourself up has nothing to do with your repeated misrepresentation of what I'm saying. Other than that it repeats the string of assumptions and allegations against Pearson which you've maintained to be convincing evidence. I wasn't replying to you but anyway; It's not an assumption that Pearson has fell out with a lot of people, it's happened times often publically. We all know this. It's not an assumption that the owner could have sacked him many times last season and didn't, nor that they have given him money this transfer window. It's also a fact that sacking Pearson has caused a lot of inconvenience, upset to the fans and cost a lot of money too. These are indisputable facts not assumptions. Now tell me why would our owners sack a successful manager for no good reason?
Webbo Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 Except precious few of us actually know what Nigel is like; don't confuse media persona for the real person... I think it's fair to judge someone by listening what they're saying in their own words and seeing their actions.
The Doctor Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 I think it's fair to judge someone by listening what they're saying in their own words and seeing their actions. Well then in the case of Pearson you'd be wrong. His ex-players wax lyrical about him and with his colleagues he's very well regarded as a person. You assume he's a dick because he's curt with stringer, but that public face is massively off base compared to the man himself, this is easily accessible knowledge if you read just a couple of interviews about him.
Foxhateram Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 Except precious few of us actually know what Nigel is like; don't confuse media persona for the real person... Nige is not like what the media perceive him to be. He is actually a quality man manager and looks after the players as if they were his own kids (don't even think about entering annoying pun/joke about the unfortunate events in Thailand here). He is deeply respected by many in the game. He is tough but fair and looks out for those around him. I honestly think this is all down to the fact Nige has slightly more realistic expectations for the next few years and is more wary and withdrawn about spending big unless entirely necessary. The owners think spending big will lead to quicker success. These creative differences in 'perspective' is what has caused the relationship to break down. It's a real shame because Nige's project honestly looked like it was going to be a flying success. Now, well let's see who comes in next. I'm just hoping that it's someone who will respect what Nige has done here and build upon it, rather than tearing it down and spending big to replace the squad that got us here.
Wymsey Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 Now tell me why would our owners sack a successful manager for no good reason? In case we had a shit season under him this season coming and get relegated.Getting relegated would've scrutinized Nigel, and tarnish what he's achieved for the club. We need a stable manager in the highest league possible (for the sake of the KP brand), and am not sure Nigel was stable despite the success he achieved.
Bettsj2 Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 Fair enough - but two play offs, two league titles and PL safety in his five full seasons with us suggests he got more right than wrong. But it didn't. His off field charge sheet wasn't great last season, nobody doubts that, and I agree he handed the owners some ammunition. But he's taken us from League One to PL safety in relatively good time. And back in 2008 we would barely have believed that. No we wouldnt and all in all, he did more good than bad. It just really is a shame he could never bring himself to play the game instead of just knowing the rules. Modern management is more political than ever. If you cant move with that, you'll just be buried. Twice now he's put in a lot of hard work and just at the point of cementing something really special, he shoots himself in the foot. Many make excuses for him but there's only so many times it can be someone elses fault.
The Doctor Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 I wasn't replying to you but anyway; It's not an assumption that Pearson has fell out with a lot of people, it's happened times often publically. We all know this. It's not an assumption that the owner could have sacked him many times last season and didn't, nor that they have given him money this transfer window. It's also a fact that sacking Pearson has caused a lot of inconvenience, upset to the fans and cost a lot of money too. These are indisputable facts not assumptions. Now tell me why would our owners sack a successful manager for no good reason? Beyond Stringer and Jimmy Bullard, who has he definitely fallen out with? It is an assumption not borne out by the facts that he readily falls out with people.
inckley fox Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 I wasn't replying to you but anyway; It's not an assumption that Pearson has fell out with a lot of people, it's happened times often publically. We all know this. It's not an assumption that the owner could have sacked him many times last season and didn't, nor that they have given him money this transfer window. It's also a fact that sacking Pearson has caused a lot of inconvenience, upset to the fans and cost a lot of money too. These are indisputable facts not assumptions. Now tell me why would our owners sack a successful manager for no good reason? Are you seriously trying to use the 'well there's no sensible public reason for sacking him, so there must be a good reason we don't know anything about' argument? Because that would basically mean that everything you've said thus far has no substance to it whatsoever.
Webbo Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 Well then in the case of Pearson you'd be wrong. His ex-players wax lyrical about him and with his colleagues he's very well regarded as a person. You assume he's a dick because he's curt with stringer, but that public face is massively off base compared to the man himself, this is easily accessible knowledge if you read just a couple of interviews about him. Sorry, are you a close personal friend of his? I don't know what he's really like but you do? Like everybody else some people will like him some won't. He's fell out with Lee Hoos, Mandaric, Stringer and various other journalists, and that's just the ones that have been made public.
Webbo Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 Are you seriously trying to use the 'well there's no sensible public reason for sacking him, so there must be a good reason we don't know anything about' argument? Because that would basically mean that everything you've said thus far has no substance to it whatsoever. Then kindly enlighten us. Why has he been sacked
inckley fox Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 Then kindly enlighten us. Why has he been sacked And there you go again, you've entirely missed the point. Not knowing why he's been sacked isn't a good enough reason to blame him for getting the sack. As it stands, a successful manager at the height of his success has been sacked and no reason given for it. Without further elaboration, or an upturn in our on-field fortunes, that's bound to look like a silly decision. I don't need to give a good reason for him being sacked. The board do. Until that point, it's going to continue looking like a silly decision.
The Doctor Posted 12 July 2015 Posted 12 July 2015 Sorry, are you a close personal friend of his? I don't know what he's really like but you do? Like everybody else some people will like him some won't. He's fell out with Lee Hoos, Mandaric, Stringer and various other journalists, and that's just the ones that have been made public. No, I just pay attention - look at comments about him made by his ex-players, ones who have worked with him day in day out for years; they've not a bad word to say about him. Look at how he comes across in interviews with the likes of Henry Winter. It is blindingly obvious that the awkward face in the media is not who he is. You'd have to be wilfully ignorant to suggest he's a dick in day to day life when pretty much everyone who has known or worked with him has only positive things to say.
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