Levein and defensive football

[Gené and Tonic]

Looking at the table is depressing. Stoke are ahead of us, a very poor team who we rightly outplayed earlier on in the season. So are a lot of other teams who we should beat and outplay. I can't help but compare us to Watford, as someone else did on here; a young, talented, unproven manager, a young, unproven squad, and yet they are playing the better football, and are 3rd in the table.

The most critical thing I can see wrong with us at the moment is that we are far too defensive. By playing defensive, we allow teams to put pressure on us, and hence the boring football, and 1-0 losses.

Watford didn't treat Sheff Utd wth respect, they went out and played good attacking football, and went 2-0 up even without their top scorer Marlon King. Ok they lost, but I have a feeling if we'd have done the same with Wolves, and other teams, we'd have come away with a lot more wins than we already have. We surely do have a better team than the likes of Watford and Stoke, and, imo we are where we are because we go out to nulify the effect of the opposition, and not to maximise our own.

Levein should take a leaf out of Adrian Boothroyds book!

[step]

Looking at the table is depressing. Stoke are ahead of us, a very poor team who we rightly outplayed earlier on in the season. So are a lot of other teams who we should beat and outplay. I can't help but compare us to Watford, as someone else did on here; a young, talented, unproven manager, a young, unproven squad, and yet they are playing the better football, and are 3rd in the table.

The most critical thing I can see wrong with us at the moment is that we are far too defensive. By playing defensive, we allow teams to put pressure on us, and hence the boring football, and 1-0 losses.

Watford didn't treat Sheff Utd wth respect, they went out and played good attacking football, and went 2-0 up even without their top scorer Marlon King. Ok they lost, but I have a feeling if we'd have done the same with Wolves, and other teams, we'd have come away with a lot more wins than we already have. We surely do have a better team than the likes of Watford and Stoke, and, imo we are where we are because we go out to nulify the effect of the opposition, and not to maximise our own.

Levein should take a leaf out of Adrian Boothroyds book!

Time, Time, Time Give it bloody time and stop moaning

[Mark]

I always look back to the Stoke game, and how well we played that night. We may have rode our luck a little by attacking as much as we did but so what? That's football and that happens in this division. Instead of concentrating on praising the side, Levein more or less critised them for trying to score another goal at 3-1, against 10 man Stoke City. That's a right kick in the teeth.

And so since then we have hardly scored until we've been forced to by going behind. Against Crewe and Hull we only went on to score after we went behind. We have failed to find the net against Luton, Cardiff and Wolves. Two goals against against an extremely poor Sheffield Wednesday side has been the only time since Stoke where we sorted outselves out from the off to win the game positively, should have went on to try to score more though to build up the players confidence.

It's not exactly a moan, i just think with our players we are better than a dull defensive side that gives a hell of a lot of respect to every team they are up against.

[Gené and Tonic]

@ step

oh, so you like to see defensive, boring football?

I'm sorry but Levein should not give Cardiff and Wolves respect or any other team for that matter, he should go out there and make the team play to it's strengths, and try to score goals, not to purely stop other teams from scoring. I will give Levein time, I am happy with what he has done to the club, but, and I'm sure Thracian will agree with me here, the tactics at times with which he sets his team out to play are very negative. He seems content to play dull, unimaginative football, rather than attacking exciting football, that will certainly get bums on seats, no matter what the result.

[Thracian]

Looking at the table is depressing. Stoke are ahead of us, a very poor team who we rightly outplayed earlier on in the season. So are a lot of other teams who we should beat and outplay. I can't help but compare us to Watford, as someone else did on here; a young, talented, unproven manager, a young, unproven squad, and yet they are playing the better football, and are 3rd in the table.

The most critical thing I can see wrong with us at the moment is that we are far too defensive. By playing defensive, we allow teams to put pressure on us, and hence the boring football, and 1-0 losses.

Watford didn't treat Sheff Utd wth respect, they went out and played good attacking football, and went 2-0 up even without their top scorer Marlon King. Ok they lost, but I have a feeling if we'd have done the same with Wolves, and other teams, we'd have come away with a lot more wins than we already have. We surely do have a better team than the likes of Watford and Stoke, and, imo we are where we are because we go out to nulify the effect of the opposition, and not to maximise our own.

Levein should take a leaf out of Adrian Boothroyds book!

Your second paragraph holds the key but Levein doesn't believe it. Probably hasn't got the personnel for all-out attacking yet either. But still doubt he'll have the nerve for it. Yet it's three points for a win.. that's the fact that makes attack the way forward either sooner or later.

[Gené and Tonic]

I've just read a quote from Boothroyd in fourfourtwo, that says:

"I think football is about winning and entertainment"

Thats the kind of mentality we need.

[Bert]

You peeps must remember that it is Levien in charge of the club and not us the fans, we have the right to voice our opinions, but at the end of the day that is all they will be, we also need to remember that Levein was a defender himself, so maybe he is trying to put his defensive knowledge into how we are playing, and on the respect side, i think every team should be given that little bit of respect, but only as much as they would give us, because if we give them too much respect, they'll be commanding the game from start to finish.

[Thracian]

@ step

oh, so you like to see defensive, boring football?

I'm sorry but Levein should not give Cardiff and Wolves respect or any other team for that matter, he should go out there and make the team play to it's strengths, and try to score goals, not to purely stop other teams from scoring. I will give Levein time, I am happy with what he has done to the club, but, and I'm sure Thracian will agree with me here, the tactics at times with which he sets his team out to play are very negative. He seems content to play dull, unimaginative football, rather than attacking exciting football, that will certainly get bums on seats, no matter what the result.

Too right I agree with you - and there are plenty of ageing footballers in and around the Midlands who would testify that I practised what I am now preaching...unrestrained and completely committed attack...and I mean that in banner headlines.

My stance to date is simply this. Levein has already done a lot of good for this club and far more good than harm. He has achieved much in such a short time.

He might have been here almost a year but "his" team is newly established and still getting used to one another.

I also understand he can only spend so long winning the possession battles in football matches but losing the war for points...I just wish he attended to the scoring problems as keenly as he attends to defensive ones.

It's these instincts (well documented on the Hearts forum) that bother me most, the fact that, in a crisis, he turns to what he knows and understands best - defence.

Yet the fact is we've had more than enough chances to win almost every game this season and there's only three reasons we haven't done so and neither of em involve luck.

a) We're lacking at least one natural striker - as lots of us said way back.

b) The guys we've got lack the confidence of people who score regularly (for various reasons I could explain).

c) We don't have enough scorers in midfield (although Hume's arrival should help that).

Respect for other teams should always be there together with input on how best to nullify their main threats but you're right...the main focus of dressing room instructions should be on imposing ourselves on the match, on how we are going to take the initiative and put all the pressure on the opposition.

We could just as easily have lost today as taken a point.

The worst that could have happened with all-out attack against Cardiff and Wolves would have left us still on nine points instead of the 10 we have now. At best though we would have had 15 instead of a possible 11 with Levein's defensive approach cos I don't seriously believe we were going to win either game with the tactics used.

The bonus for attack would have been the excitement created, the feeling of optimism generated, the extra people wanting to watch...plus the fact that we might, just might have been near the top of the league like the Watford and Sheffield United's.

[Gené and Tonic]

More proof that attacking football works is with West Ham.

A 4-0 win and a 2-1 win. That will be vital for their survival, both in goal difference and in points. If they'd have played defensive, I somehow don't think they'd be 4th in the table by now.

Obviously they won't do that to the better teams like Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U and Liverpool, but they do it to anyone that they can see themselves realistically beating. We can realistically beat anyone in this league, but by playing defensive, we make it so, so much harder for ourselves.

[Babylon]

I've just read a quote from Boothroyd in fourfourtwo, that says:

"I think football is about winning and entertainment"

Thats the kind of mentality we need.

It's easy to say that when your winning. If they were struggling he wouldn't be coming out with comments like that.

[Gené and Tonic]

He said that last season, when they were fighting for relegation

[Babylon]

He said that last season, when they were fighting for relegation

Well he's a bit stupid to make that comment at that time then.

I'm sure that the watford fans enjoyed fighting relegation because they had "entertaining" football. Personally I wouldn't find losing 4-2 every game very entertaining.

[Anish]

You peeps must remember that it is Levien in charge of the club and not us the fans, we have the right to voice our opinions, but at the end of the day that is all they will be, we also need to remember that Levein was a defender himself, so maybe he is trying to put his defensive knowledge into how we are playing, and on the respect side, i think every team should be given that little bit of respect, but only as much as they would give us, because if we give them too much respect, they'll be commanding the game from start to finish.

The club, including Levein, needs to remember that it is a business, and that fans are paying customers. We will not be attracted to pay to watch Leicester play defensive football - we want to see Leicester trying to hurt the opposition and scoring some goals. Levein might have been a defender but he also has a duty to get as many fans to turn up at the ground, and dull defensive football isn't going to do that.

[Steven]

The club, including Levein, needs to remember that it is a business, and that fans are paying customers. We will not be attracted to pay to watch Leicester play defensive football - we want to see Leicester trying to hurt the opposition and scoring some goals. Levein might have been a defender but he also has a duty to get as many fans to turn up at the ground, and dull defensive football isn't going to do that.

... but successful football will. I think we all need to grasp the fact that this is Levein's style of football. He will in the first instance try to build a side that is difficult to beat and then once he has done that he will try to add some flair to the side.

[Babylon]

... but successful football will. I think we all need to grasp the fact that this is Levein's style of football. He will in the first instance try to build a side that is difficult to beat and then once he has done that he will try to add some flair to the side.

Exactly...

look at his comments, he said he wanted a platform to build from. He's not going to play like that all the time.

[Jay]

Exactly...

look at his comments, he said he wanted a platform to build from. He's not going to play like that all the time.

we have given away to many silly goals away from home and we restricted one of the better attacking sides in the league to very few chances. we needed to build solid foundations at the back, not give away silly goals at set pieces and then move on.. sounds like common sense to me

[breadandcheese]

I think Levein showed good managerial and tactical ability yesterday in grinding out a 0-0 draw. Our away league games this season show why Levein decided to play defensively for this match and fair play for that.

Sheff Utd 4 City 1 - We were the better team for most of the match but came away with a sound beating

Crewe 2 City 2 - Would have won this game but for being asleep in first 20 mins and occasional defensive lapse of concentration

Hull 1 City 1 - From our second half performance, we should have come away with more than a point, but a point would be a fair reflection based on our refusal to turn up for the first half

Cardiff 1 City 0 - Our keeper did not have one save to make and we should have won this game

In all these matches, the continuing trend has been that we were generally the better team, yet failed to benefit and capitalise, gaining only 2 points from a possible 12. Defensive lapses have cost us. Against Wolves, one of the strongest teams in the league, it is good tactical management to ensure that we do not repeat these defensive lapses.

Fair play Levein. I am impressed with what he is building and can see the next 3 years being a time of great building with some of our youngsters coming through and building a really good side.

[cisono]

we have given away to many silly goals away from home and we restricted one of the better attacking sides in the league to very few chances. we needed to build solid foundations at the back, not give away silly goals at set pieces and then move on.. sounds like common sense to me

I wouldn't dispute that that is common sense. Just that it doesn't make for entertaining football. Perhaps games should be priced depending on what strategy Levein is employing...

[SilverFox]

... but successful football will. I think we all need to grasp the fact that this is Levein's style of football. He will in the first instance try to build a side that is difficult to beat and then once he has done that he will try to add some flair to the side.

Agreed Stevo, but he has been in charge for nearly a year now and the players still struggle to adapt to his system (which has been exploited by the best and worst teams in this league). To be fair, with his own players and through playing his own system for nearly a year, we shouldn't be having this debate! If you don't go onto the pitch intending to win you won't go anywhere! At the moment all we seem to do is play to avoid conceeding...and even that doesn't work.

We need goals, simple as...

[Gené and Tonic]

Exactly...

look at his comments, he said he wanted a platform to build from. He's not going to play like that all the time.

But even that platform isn't working. Maybe yesterday was a sign that it is beggining to. But more 1-0 defeats, and narrow 2-0 defeats will not do. If the defence can't help but concede goals, we need to score more than the opposition, simple as. How do you get that? By playing attacking football. The return of Gerrbrand should help us, we'll see what happens from there.

I have faith he will put it right, maybe Levein is just focusng on the defense for the early part of the season, just to get them to gel more, and then we will see some attacking play later on. Who knows?

[Hazza]

I feel for the fans who paid good money to go to the game yesterday, but as has been said so often, and some critics said after the Sheff Utd game: "It's a results business". I'll glady take a point at Molineux by any means necessary, we've done the attacking at Sheff Utd and Crewe and conceded 6 goals, Wolves are just as capable as expoliting gaps and poor defending as those two.

As long as we generally play good football i won't mind us setting our stall out to stay solid defensively when going to the tough grounds, providing it's successful. We had some chances by the sounds of it yesterday and it's not like we regularly play 4-5-1 and defensively.

[Burleyfox]

Surely all that Levein has done is to accept that we have been letting in far too many soft goals this season and to set about putting that right. All good sides are built on a solid defense - you have to get this basic in place before you can think about playing expansive football.

[Thracian]

Surely all that Levein has done is to accept that we have been letting in far too many soft goals this season and to set about putting that right. All good sides are built on a solid defense - you have to get this basic in place before you can think about playing expansive football.

I do agree with that but I'm not sure, looking at his record and reading the Hearts forum, that Levein has ever been a believer in expansive football. Can he be persuaded to change, will his team be more expansive with time or will he forever be too cautious to be more than moderately successful?

[shep]

Ive attended all our away games so far this season, apart from Cardiff, my heart sank when i saw the team on Sat. Wolves were missing Ince, Anderton, Miller and rested Ricketts. Can anyone tell me another time when they will be so vunerable?

I Like Levein i really do but im starting to think the players are nowhere near as good as i thought they were. In pre season we were told the team wanted to play "high tempo" closing down pressing the opposition but that seems to have been forgotten because the players just walk around displaying no passion whatsoever.

We need to play with passion confidence and have the bottle to have a go! Hammond and Hume should of started at Wolves it was a terrible performance as was Hull i spent over £120 on those to away trips...mmmm Value for money there (needed £30 at the bar after to forget what i just witnessed) BRING ON DERBY!!! zzzzzzzzzz

[Katy]

4-5-1 is so very, very wrong. Can we be a little more adventurous please CL? Surely he must be bored rigid watching us play that formation. Is this how its going to be for every away match?