Another gun attack in the states.

[Guest Col city fan]

Plus a firearms license sounds a bit more long winded than just strolling up to a shop and getting one.

This video gets posted everytime theres a mass murder but that's because it's so true. Worth a watch if you haven't seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0

Love that video. Funny and spot on,

[Jimothy]

Plus a firearms license sounds a bit more long winded than just strolling up to a shop and getting one.

This video gets posted everytime theres a mass murder but that's because it's so true. Worth a watch if you haven't seen it. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0

Part two is pretty spot on too

https://youtu.be/a9UFyNy-rw4

I have no idea why when I quote videos don't appear. Here's part 2

[UPinCarolina]

You in the UK don't truly grasp the idiocy of my countrymen, even as you witness it. It's hard for many Americans who are aware of the insanity to even see it. The unwashed, religious masses are blinded by their misinformed notions about the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. This is without mentioning the sighs of relief from those same rabble that were just barely audible as the news came out that most of the slaughtered were homosexuals.

The fundamentalist, evangelical Christians in my nation are as grave a threat to our future as anything that could show up on our doorstep. 

Edited 13 June 2016 by UPinCarolina

[Rincewind]

The proof of that is the preacher (Christian) who said he was pleased the people died because they were gay.

[Guest MattP]

How have we got onto blaming evangelical Christians for this?

Anyway another Islamic State attack in Northern France today, policeman and his wife killed. Very sad.

[Finnegan]

Do people really think gun control will stop these attacks? Total red herring for me.

Gun control didn't stop the Battaclan attacks, if these sort of people want access to a firearm they'll get one.

So why don't "these sort of people" get access to a firearm here?

And if having firearms protects everyone from firearms, why wasn't he shot by a civilian before he killed fifty others? Why are they almost never shot by civilians?

Sorry Matt, but just because the pratt swears allegiance to Daesh instead of the devil or heavy metal music or whatever the **** else, it doesn't stop him being just another mass murdering **** up from a country where guns are too readily available.

[Guest MattP]

If someone was that desperate to get a firearm here I'm sure they could, they don't exactly have a problem getting their hands on them in France do they where gun control is extremely tight.

I'd imagine he wasn't shot by a civilian as before yesterday your average gay guy didn't feel the need to armed whilst going out for drinks in a gay club.

[Guest MattP]

In the aftermath of this latest attack, 'liberals' will want to focus solely on the firearm issue. They'll avoid mentioning the motivating factor at the root of this attack.

Firearms weren't the motivation. Bullets were simply the chosen method. The motivation was a toxic Islamist ideology. An ideology that makes medieval Europe look positively enlightened.

Maybe there's an argument to be had about gun access, but if you ignore the root problem then this will continue to happen, no matter how many restrictions are placed on firearm sales. This is an ideological issue and it's one that needs to be dealt with. We need to back reformist Muslims. Not bury our heads in the sand.

How many deaths will it take before the regressives acknowledge there's a problem?

[Rincewind]

He  was a home grown homophobic American  who drove 150 miles to enter a gay club and kill 50 plus people he did not agree with. How will banning foreigners stop people like him as Trump suggests.

The amendment was introduced at a time when weapons fired musket balls one at a time not a dozen a second. This is what the ones saying it is their right misunderstand. If every citizen carried an assault rifle around with them the USA would go into meltdown.

At least the NRA  and the politicians that are in their pocket would be happy.

[Guest MattP]

I certainly don't concur with Donald Trump's comments yesterday, like Europe, the horse has bolted in the US and they'll be living with the problem now for a long time with gun control or no gun control.

 

He was a homophobic American, but he was also one who had an idelogy based on a religious belief (and a correct one according to the book he follows) that he has the right to kill people because of their sexuality, something many countries in the World still do as well.

 

Unless Islam can reform itself in the same wat other religions have had too, this problem isn't going away.

[Merging Cultures]

Not sure he was homophobic, apparently he used to go to the club quite regularly. More likely he was gay but then felt convicted of his actions, and acted in guilt. Absolutely disgusting.

[Rincewind]

There was also a Christian preach who has said they should have been executed by the government. It also says the that homosexuals should be killed in the OT bible. If it was not for religion these sort of people would just be regarded as homophobic bigots and their only supporters would also be bigoted homophobes..

[Jon the Hat]

Guns are not the root cause, they just massively increase the impact of such attacks.  It is completely unnecessary and unacceptable for civilians in a western nation to be able to walk in and buy a AR-15 rifle.  It fires a lot of shots very quickly, and is made to circumvent laws on automatic weapons while getting a close as possible to their features.

[Guest MattP]

Not sure he was homophobic, apparently he used to go to the club quite regularly. More likely he was gay but then felt convicted of his actions, and acted in guilt. Absolutely disgusting.

 

Just read about this now, visited a lot of gay websites as well. Does appear he could have been a closet case so ashamed he decided to deal with it like this.   

[Darkon84]

There was also a Christian preach who has said they should have been executed by the government. It also says the that homosexuals should be killed in the OT bible. If it was not for religion these sort of people would just be regarded as homophobic bigots and their only supporters would also be bigoted homophobes..

 

Yes, you've mentioned him about 3 or 4 times now. Unfortunately the Bible belt over there still has complete morons like him, and as it stands, that's all he is, just an idiot using this event to get more air time. The difference is, he's not actively going out with a rifle killing homosexuals.

Edited 14 June 2016 by Darkon84

[Merging Cultures]

There was also a Christian preach who has said they should have been executed by the government. It also says the that homosexuals should be killed in the OT bible. If it was not for religion these sort of people would just be regarded as homophobic bigots and their only supporters would also be bigoted homophobes..

 

Not getting into this debate again, you know the preach [sic] is not correct, however I will just say:

 

Mark 12, v30-31 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

 

Through Christ and by following His commandments (Mark 12, v30-31), Christians are following God's teaching. Any 'preacher' who preaches hate against anyone, is not a Christian, so you can ignore anything they are saying. 

 

In Christ, the OT laws are no longer relevant and there is a new covenant in God (Hebrews 8).

 

Here endeth today's sermon!

[leicsmac]

Is it not possible that he's merely a lone wolf nutjob?

 

Oh bugger...I forgot. He's not white. Never mind. Has to be a fighter in an overarching ideology then.

 

Aaand there's me doing what I told myself not to do right at the start of the thread, getting involved. Fvck.

 

On another note, the points made regarding either better accessibility to healthcare or tighter gun control in the US going forward still stand.

Edited 14 June 2016 by leicsmac

[Guest MattP]

What has his skin colour got to do with it?

He rang police before the attack and claimed allegiance to Islamic State, they have also claimed responsibility. Are we supposed to ignore that because we want to try and believe he's a lone wolf rather than what he says it's him himself?

You talk like white people can't carry out attacks in the name if IS, they can and have done. Islam isn't a race.

[Merging Cultures]

Sorry Leicsmac, if he hadn't called it in before then I'd agree with you, but this time his ethnicity and religious affiliation are quite important to the narrative.

[leicsmac]

What has his skin colour got to do with it?

He rang police before the attack and claimed allegiance to Islamic State, they have also claimed responsibility. Are we supposed to ignore that because we want to try and believe he's a lone wolf rather than what he says it's him himself?

You talk like white people can't carry out attacks in the name if IS, they can and have done. Islam isn't a race.

 

I'm talking about the pretty clear and present double standard that exists between fvcknuts like this and other fvcknuts like Dylan Roof/Anders Breivik. They had their own ideology based on hate that lines up rather neatly with the ideology of other organisations, but the mud doesn't stick there and they're passed off as lone nutters (for the most part). Mass shooters do get profiled based on their skin colour. It's pretty damned obvious.

 

Sorry if I'm appearing confrontational here, but this comes up every time there's a mass shooting incident in the US and the double standard aggravates me enough to actually stick my oar in here when it's really all been covered before.

 

I actually do think that this case is different - as you said, he called it in - but the total absence of any kind of of doubt in the mind of many people regarding what was going on in his head is annoying. Breivik went on at length about doing God's work in the aftermath of his killing spree, and most people simply shrugged and called him a nutjob.

[leicsmac]

Sorry Leicsmac, if he hadn't called it in before then I'd agree with you, but this time his ethnicity and religious affiliation are quite important to the narrative.

 

I think I covered a response in my reply to Matt, but again: does killing in the name of a deity mark you as either completely insane or a sociopath with a carefully crafted agenda driven by outside backing? The distinction seems to be made along very particular lines, even if in this case the distinction is probably (probably) correct.

[Guest MattP]

I'm talking about the pretty clear and present double standard that exists between fvcknuts like this and other fvcknuts like Dylan Roof/Anders Breivik. They had their own ideology based on hate that lines up rather neatly with the ideology of other organisations, but the mud doesn't stick there and they're passed off as lone nutters (for the most part). Mass shooters do get profiled based on their skin colour. It's pretty damned obvious.

 

Sorry if I'm appearing confrontational here, but this comes up every time there's a mass shooting incident in the US and the double standard aggravates me enough to actually stick my oar in here when it's really all been covered before.

 

I actually do think that this case is different - as you said, he called it in - but the total absence of any kind of of doubt in the mind of many people regarding what was going on in his head is annoying. Breivik went on at length about doing God's work in the aftermath of his killing spree, and most people simply shrugged and called him a nutjob.

 

But those two you mention aren't considered lone wolf nutters, Dylan Roof was widely described as white supremicist in virtually every article I read about him, Anders Breivik is widely recognised as a political terrorist. They are recognised at that because that's what they were. In the same way now this guy is an Islamist terrorist.

 

Do you really think if a white guy who was a Muslim convert had gone on this rampage claiming it in the name of Islamic State we would be calling him a lone wolf nutjob rather than a terrorist? We wouldn't, I absolutely assure you we wouldn't.

[Merging Cultures]

Clearly they are sociopaths. The issue here is that ISIS is giving them something to fall back on, identify with and use as excuse to kill. Breivik didn't have a modern day Christian equivalent to align with (aside from the ones in the US), he wrote his own manifesto as far as I am aware.

[Rincewind]

Islam is not exclusive to Islamic state.

 

The ones like the preacher are usually young earthers so believe in the Ark and all that BS. They also claim to be Christians.

They follow the whole bible despite all its contradictions.

Those that are taking credit for him being one of them after he said it may only be playing mind games. He had a dislike of gays as do some sections of extremist islam. They are sending a sick message out. They are saying here is another man willing to die for our cause. Are they likely to say anything else after his claim?. 

[Guest MattP]

Islam is not exclusive to Islamic state.

 

The ones like the preacher are usually young earthers so believe in the Ark and all that BS. They also claim to be Christians.

They follow the whole bible despite all its contradictions.

Those that are taking credit for him being one of them after he said it may only be playing mind games. He had a dislike of gays as do some sections of extremist islam. They are sending a sick message out. They are saying here is another man willing to die for our cause. Are they likely to say anything else after his claim?. 

 

I'm pretty certain to join or support Islamic State and the caliphate Ken you'll be a follower of Islam.