Another gun attack in the states.

[leicsmac]

But those two you mention aren't considered lone wolf nutters, Dylan Roof was widely described as white supremicist in virtually every article I read about him, Anders Breivik is widely recognised as a political terrorist. They are recognised at that because that's what they were. In the same way now this guy is an Islamist terrorist.

 

Do you really think if a white guy who was a Muslim convert had gone on this rampage claiming it in the name of Islamic State we would be calling him a lone wolf nutjob rather than a terrorist? We wouldn't, I absolutely assure you we wouldn't.

 

Really? I heard an awful lot of talk about 'mentally unstable' and not too much about 'terrorist' when Roof and Breivik were arrested from a lot of people. Far more than is going on in this case, anyway. That being said, such things are probably quite subjective and dependent on who you're talking to and what you're reading.

 

Do agree with your second paragraph, however - but that is and would be a rather rare occurrence.

 

I'm just thinking that in cases like this you should either credit everyone with perfect attribution in the name of their ideology and give the same societal response each time, or assume that all of them are off the reservation.

 

Clearly they are sociopaths. The issue here is that ISIS is giving them something to fall back on, identify with and use as excuse to kill. Breivik didn't have a modern day Christian equivalent to align with (aside from the ones in the US), he wrote his own manifesto as far as I am aware.

 

Yeah, that's true, and partly my point. Any hateful nutjob can decide to go shoot a place up, then make a call to the cops saying it's in the name of *whatever* despite not believing a word of it, just purely for their own additional self-gratification before they end up shuffling off to the next life.

[Merging Cultures]

Islam is not exclusive to Islamic state.

 

The ones like the preacher are usually young earthers so believe in the Ark and all that BS. They also claim to be Christians.

They follow the whole bible despite all its contradictions.

Those that are taking credit for him being one of them after he said it may only be playing mind games. He had a dislike of gays as do some sections of extremist islam. They are sending a sick message out. They are saying here is another man willing to die for our cause. Are they likely to say anything else after his claim?. 

 

Firstly, no one said Islam is exclusive to IS.

 

Secondly, young earthers etc need to be banned from getting weapons. They are clearly insane. Similarly to your statement, they do not reflect the views of other Christians. Fortunately, young earthers and their ilk haven't tried to set up a new Christian state and are actively calling on killing infidels. 

 

Thirdly, the guy called the police and pledged allegiance to IS. The police could be playing mind games (possible) by claiming he called them.

 

Lastly, he seemed to quite like the gays, he went to the club quite regularly. Unless he was really slow and needed to scope the place out many many times.

[Webbo]

What's a young earther?

 

 

I've just looked it up, a creationist.

Edited 14 June 2016 by Webbo

[Merging Cultures]

Yeah, that's true, and partly my point. Any hateful nutjob can decide to go shoot a place up, then make a call to the cops saying it's in the name of *whatever* despite not believing a word of it, just purely for their own additional self-gratification before they end up shuffling off to the next life.

 

Obviously we'll never understand the mind of a 'nutjob', but I don't see what additional self-gratification someone would receive from blaming a terrorist group like IS. We know the guy was a Muslim. We don't know if he had mental issues, or if he was radicalised.

 

Given he seems to have had an accomplice, according to latest reports (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/wftv-arrest-expected-in-orlando-nightclub-mass-shooting/340918422), it is more than likely he was sympathetic to the IS cause and they both were radicalised.

[Merging Cultures]

What's a young earther?

 

 

I've just looked it up, a creationist.

 

Yeah, I had to use Ken's term, but essentially they are creationists. Believe the world is only 12,000 years old or something ridiculous.

[leicsmac]

Obviously we'll never understand the mind of a 'nutjob', but I don't see what additional self-gratification someone would receive from blaming a terrorist group like IS. We know the guy was a Muslim. We don't know if he had mental issues, or if he was radicalised.

 

Given he seems to have had an accomplice, according to latest reports (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/wftv-arrest-expected-in-orlando-nightclub-mass-shooting/340918422), it is more than likely he was sympathetic to the IS cause and they both were radicalised.

 

That is indeed the most likely scenario. My problem is with people (some in very influential places) making the assertion that it is a cast-iron certainty, and then in other very similar situations not tying other people to ideology in the same way with the same certainty. Hypocrisy.

Edited 14 June 2016 by leicsmac

[Merging Cultures]

That is indeed the most likely scenario. My problem is with people (some in very influential places) making the assertion that it is a cast-iron certainty, and then in other very similar situations not tying other people to ideology in the same way with the same certainty.

 

I definitely understand the need to be cautious when quickly jumping to decisions. But again, unless the police are lying (they could be), he had declared his allegiance to IS (for whatever purpose), and therefore the discussion about Islam and terrorism is valid (in this case, given what we know).

[leicsmac]

I definitely understand the need to be cautious when quickly jumping to decisions. But again, unless the police are lying (they could be), he had declared his allegiance to IS (for whatever purpose), and therefore the discussion about Islam and terrorism is valid (in this case, given what we know).

 

Totally fair enough MC. I guess I've just seen enough disrespectful triumphant crowing generalisations regarding this over the past few days I've gotten rather fed up.

 

What the fvck happened to any kind of nuance?

[Merging Cultures]

What the fvck happened to any kind of nuance?

 

I think we have all been ruined by over exposure. We've all seen way too much these days, nothing shocks any more, so everyone has to go to extremes to get attention. Anything nuanced now seems weak. 

[leicsmac]

I think we have all been ruined by over exposure. We've all seen way too much these days, nothing shocks any more, so everyone has to go to extremes to get attention. Anything nuanced now seems weak. 

 

If you're right (and you may well be) then I'm rather scared of a future where compromise and nuance are seen as dirty words.

[The Railway Man]

[EnderbyFox]

[Smudge]

What's a young earther?

 

 

I've just looked it up, a creationist.

 

Miss Kitt aged 14

[Webbo]

Miss Kitt aged 14

I thought that was rhyming slang, as in "I'm just going for an Eartha".

[Smudge]

I thought that was rhyming slang, as in "I'm just going for an Eartha".

 

No Webbo, not that cryptic.

 

Back on subject, I watched NBC News last night and they reported that his co-worker at a security firm, said he raged against African Americans, homosexuals and women constantly.

His wife said that he almost kept her prisoner in the house and feared for her life since she had left him.

What is most bizarre is that the FBI had watched and even interviewed him, yet there is no system in place to link former suspects with purchases of firearms. That has to change.

Edited 14 June 2016 by Smudge

[Raw Dykes]

Not getting into this debate again, you know the preach [sic] is not correct, however I will just say:

 

Mark 12, v30-31 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

 

Through Christ and by following His commandments (Mark 12, v30-31), Christians are following God's teaching. Any 'preacher' who preaches hate against anyone, is not a Christian, so you can ignore anything they are saying. 

 

In Christ, the OT laws are no longer relevant and there is a new covenant in God (Hebrews 8).

 

Here endeth today's sermon!

 

The Bible is the big book of multiple choice.

 

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:17-19)

 

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

 

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John 7:19)

[johnny the fox]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/679835/gunman-supermarket-hostages-Amarillo here we go again...

[Rincewind]

Its a daily occurrence but a lot are not reported on. 

[Dr The Singh]

Obviously we'll never understand the mind of a 'nutjob', but I don't see what additional self-gratification someone would receive from blaming a terrorist group like IS. We know the guy was a Muslim. We don't know if he had mental issues, or if he was radicalised.

Given he seems to have had an accomplice, according to latest reports (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/wftv-arrest-expected-in-orlando-nightclub-mass-shooting/340918422), it is more than likely he was sympathetic to the IS cause and they both were radicalised.

I watched an interview with his and his ex, both said he behaved normally and showed no mental abnormality

He was a guilty homosexual or had a distinct hatred and scoped a attack against them in a calculated way.

Extremism does not mean your a nut job, just that your beliefs are so strong and strong willed to do what the belief requires.

Believing by the letter a 700 year old or 1900 old faith will lead to tragedy

[Bellend Sebastian]

Well this is at least a bit interesting.

 

On one level, it's scary that there are some Americans need to own that amount of weaponry, but I suppose this means that there are actually fewer people walking around with them than you might have thought:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/19/us-gun-ownership-survey

[Merging Cultures]

23 hours ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Well this is at least a bit interesting.

 

On one level, it's scary that there are some Americans need to own that amount of weaponry, but I suppose this means that there are actually fewer people walking around with them than you might have thought:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/19/us-gun-ownership-survey

 

I can see why, my stance has changed significantly over the last year. If I went back to the US, I think I would get a gun, or several actually.

 

I'd get

1. 22LR AR-15, Smith and Wesson M&P15
2. 9mm pistol, Glock-17 Gen4
3. .45 pistol, Glock 21 Gen4
4. Shotgun, Mossberg 590
5. .308 bolt action rifle, Browning XBolt Hunter Walnut Stock

They all have different functions, 22LR would be my main protection in a SHTF scenario along with the 9mm pistol. Ammunition is easily available and cheap, so I could stockpile it just in case.

 

The .45 pistol and shotgun would be for home defence. The .45 has greater stopping power than the 9mm. Shotgun because it has a lot of power.

 

The bolt action rifle would be the dependable hunting rifle that I'd use if I had to go 'off the grid'. 

 

Now, that's just 5 guns. But what if I wanted a couple extra to barter with or to equip family and friends? So I probably would get a few extra of the 9mm and the shotgun. Because, you never know!

 

And then there are the new models that come out... I might want to get a Gen5 .45.

[Jon the Hat]

35 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

 

I can see why, my stance has changed significantly over the last year. If I went back to the US, I think I would get a gun, or several actually.

 

I'd get

1. 22LR AR-15, Smith and Wesson M&P15
2. 9mm pistol, Glock-17 Gen4
3. .45 pistol, Glock 21 Gen4
4. Shotgun, Mossberg 590
5. .308 bolt action rifle, Browning XBolt Hunter Walnut Stock

They all have different functions, 22LR would be my main protection in a SHTF scenario along with the 9mm pistol. Ammunition is easily available and cheap, so I could stockpile it just in case.

 

The .45 pistol and shotgun would be for home defence. The .45 has greater stopping power than the 9mm. Shotgun because it has a lot of power.

 

The bolt action rifle would be the dependable hunting rifle that I'd use if I had to go 'off the grid'. 

 

Now, that's just 5 guns. But what if I wanted a couple extra to barter with or to equip family and friends? So I probably would get a few extra of the 9mm and the shotgun. Because, you never know!

 

And then there are the new models that come out... I might want to get a Gen5 .45.

Great to see you are prepared for some sort of crazy ****ed up armageddon scenario MC.

[Carl the Llama]

Note to self: Stop stalking MC's wife.

[Merging Cultures]

Anyone would have to get past my killer guinea pigs first.

[Soar Fox]

15 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

Anyone would have to get past my killer guinea pigs first.

That wouldn't be hard, just send your daughters friend round to deal with them.