General Election, June 8th

[Steven]

9 minutes ago, MattP said:

But whoever governs will have to work with them. That's the way the result has fell.

 

What's the other option? Another election? What if then produces a result exactly the same? Another election? Then Another election?

Enter into an agreement with a non-terrorist related party. Put the nation first. 

 

[Guest MattP]

6 minutes ago, Steven said:

Enter into an agreement with a non-terrorist related party. Put the nation first. 

No one else is prepared to go onto coalition with the Tories apart from the DUP. (And that's only to keep Corbyn out)

 

So again, what else can they do?

[Steven]

5 minutes ago, MattP said:

No one else is prepared to go onto coalition with the Tories apart from the DUP. (And that's only to keep Corbyn out)

 

So again, what else can they do?

Operate as a minority Government; learn how to share; learn not to believe that you have a divine right to rule absolutely under all circumstances.

 

Perhaps if the Tories had not run roughshod over the Liberals under Cameron then other parties might be more willing to enter into agreements with them.

[Guest MattP]

2 minutes ago, Steven said:

Operate as a minority Government; learn how to share; learn not to believe that you have a divine right to rule absolutely under all circumstances.

 

Perhaps if the Tories had not run roughshod over the Liberals under Cameron then other parties might be more willing to enter into agreements with them.

They are operating under a minority government. 

 

If they can't get votes from the DUP they can't pass legislation or get a Queen's speech through.

 

Sorry but you living in some fantasy world if you think any other party will effectively hang themselves voting with the Tories whatever they offer, the options are either.

 

Conservative + DUP

 

Labour + Liberals + SNP + Green + Plaid + DUP

 

That's it. 

[Steven]

Just now, MattP said:

They are operating under a minority government. 

 

If they can't get votes from the DUP they can't pass legislation or get a Queen's speech through.

 

Sorry but you living in some fantasy world if you think any other party will effectively hang themselves voting with the Tories whatever they offer, the options are either.

 

Conservative + DUP

 

Labour + Liberals + SNP + Green + Plaid + DUP

 

That's it. 

It is a Tory problem they need to solve. They can get legislation passed by modifying what they are asking for.

[Jon the Hat]

18 minutes ago, Steven said:

Enter into an agreement with a non-terrorist related party. Put the nation first. 

 

Presumably the other parties should reject a coalition with Jeremy Corbyn led Labour on the same basis?

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, Steven said:

It is a Tory problem they need to solve. They can get legislation passed by modifying what they are asking for.

They are solving it.  Your boys lost, I dont understand why anyone thinks Labour have any sort of mandate to form a Government.

[Steven]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

Presumably the other parties should reject a coalition with Jeremy Corbyn led Labour on the same basis?

Are Labour looking to enter into a coalition with Sinn Fein?

[Steven]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

They are solving it.  Your boys lost, I dont understand why anyone thinks Labour have any sort of mandate to form a Government.

They don't but neither do the Tories.

[Jon the Hat]

Just now, Steven said:

They don't but neither do the Tories.

They are the largest party by some distance.

[Nick]

I hope we go back to the polls.

 

 

[Steven]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

They are the largest party by some distance.

.... but not a mandate to form a Government. I won't fall for bait and switch. 

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, Steven said:

Are Labour looking to enter into a coalition with Sinn Fein?

Haha, no doubt Corbyn would given half a chance, I was referring to the fact that Corbyn has a lot more to blot his copybook than the admittedly backward DUP.

[Jon the Hat]

Just now, Steven said:

.... but not a mandate to form a Government. I won't fall for bait and switch. 

More of a mandate than anyone else though no?  You think they should not have the right to try first as the party who wont the most seats?

[Steven]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

Haha, no doubt Corbyn would given half a chance, I was referring to the fact that Corbyn has a lot more to blot his copybook than the admittedly backward DUP.

What's worse having tea with a rabbit killer or giving power to would be cop killers? 

[Steven]

Just now, Jon the Hat said:

More of a mandate than anyone else though no?  You think they should not have the right to try first as the party who wont the most seats?

The right to try is not a mandate.

[Guest MattP]

5 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Haha, no doubt Corbyn would given half a chance, I was referring to the fact that Corbyn has a lot more to blot his copybook than the admittedly backward DUP.

Even if he could convince the SF MP's to take their seats, he would still need to get the support of the DUP to get his Queen's speech through. (Which surely even his most staunch Labour supporters will see as ridiculous)

 

I have no idea why his supporters continue to indulge in this fantasy that he could form a government. He can't, the Conservatives and the DUP have 328 seats between them.

 

5 minutes ago, Steven said:

.... but not a mandate to form a Government. I won't fall for bait and switch. 

If the Tories have no mandate to form a government, no one does.

 

So do we just keep going back to the polls until someone wins a majority? With the split in the country at the minute that could take a while.

[Buce]

43 minutes ago, MattP said:

I give up trying to predict how the UKIP vote will fall now, outside of the North East it looks like it went more back to Labour than the Conservatives. Which shows Labour's position on still seeking a proper Brexit effectively was the right one, something I thought was bonkers as they would put the students/young people off, it didn't, I got it totally wrong.

 

The next few years may well be difficult but that won't just be for the Tories, if the huge economic downturn does happen then Labour aren't going to be able to produce another "everything for free" manifesto at the next election, they were pushing it this time, if we have crashed and burned with a "no deal" - likely now I think, then whoever wins the next election is going to have be part of a government that will need to tighten it's belt.

 

If it wasn't for Corbyn I would be as well given the stance they have taken on the single market, even more so if we see the Tories heading into a "soft Brexit" and using the DUP as an excuse for doing so. Although David Davis has gone back on his interview now and said the people will be wondering whats going on if we don't leave it.

 

It's all to play for but if we have an election in 2020 with the Tories offering us staying in the Single Market with FoM etc and Labour saying we'll leave it then my vote will go to the latter.

 

 

Apologies, I was posting straight from the 2015 Paisley tweet, 2010 makes more sense as Brown was trying anything to cling on.

 

I'd say to you and @Steven that there is nothing wrong with this, our electoral rules mean a coalition can be formed with anyone who is elected in the British Isles, I don't think it's ideal and I think some of the potential coalitions that have been touted are farcical but the fact is, whoever governs now, Labour or the Conservatives, would need votes from the DUP to govern, that's just what it is with the way the numbers have fell after the election.

 

How Northern Ireland deals with this I don't know, but you can't just leave the British government effectively in political purgatory because of what the reaction might be.

 

Very harsh on the last point, May used "Conservative and Unionist Party" in her first speech as the Prime Minister last year, she hasn't just pulled it out the bag now as you implied because of this deal. That said, I'm glad she's using it, the Union is more important than ever now and the Conservative is a party that isstanding up for that,  It's not even in the same ballpark as potentially Labour announcing themselves in partnership of a nationlist movement from a foreign country.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-36789572

 

 

 

I really can't be bothered to search for the posts to prove it, but I don't recall that being your attitude when the Scots were voting on independence.

[Guest MattP]

Just now, Buce said:

I really can't be bothered to search for the posts to prove it, but I don't recall that being your attitude when the Scots were voting on independence.

If the Scots wanted independence then they were entitled to it.

 

Now we know at the minute, they don't.

[Buce]

Just now, MattP said:

Even if he could convince the SF MP's to take their seats, he would still need to the support of the DUP to get his Queen's speech through.

 

I have no idea why his supporters continue to indulge in this fantasy that he could form a government. He can't, the Conservatives and the DUP have 328 seats between them.

 

If the Tories have no mandate to form a government, no one does.

 

So do we just keep going back to the polls until someone wins a majority? With the split in the country at the minute that could take a while.

 

Yes.

[Steven]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

So do we just keep going back to the polls until someone wins a majority? With the split in the country at the minute that could take a while.

That is called the "Theresa May strategy". Call needless elections to get unrealistic expectations fulfilled.

[Buce]

Just now, MattP said:

If the Scots wanted independence then they were entitled to it.

 

Now we know at the minute, they don't.

 

I was speaking of your assertion that the Union is more important than ever.

 

You seemed to think it little or no importance at that time.

 

[Guest MattP]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

Yes.

Totally unrealistic and you know it.

 

Although I hope you stick to this if Labour win 325 seats at some point in the future.

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

I was speaking of your assertion that the Union is more important than ever.

 

You seemed to think it little or no importance at that time.

Even if I did, it's not really relevant.

 

I was responding to the false allegation Theresa May was using the "Unionist" language in the name of the party with intent because of this deal, as proved by her first speech as PM, that's not true.

[Buce]

6 minutes ago, MattP said:

Totally unrealistic and you know it.

 

Although I hope you stick to this if Labour win 325 seats at some point in the future.

 

I don't accept the premise.

 

We need a strong and stable government (sound familiar?) to take us through Brexit; May used that as an excuse to call the election in the first place, and her position is considerably weaker than then.

 

I would say the same if Labour were trying to run a minority government under these circumstances - I want what's best for my country, not what's best for the Labour Party.