The Horse's Mouth Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 You could say that for McDonnell but I don't think that of Corbyn
Guest Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 1 hour ago, MattP said: I think I've said this before, people like him don't resign, they have to be forced out. Will the moderates now give up the fight for Labour? I suspect that they might. Corbyn is going to deeply enjoy watching people like Umanna squirming from the backbenches now. Not winning the election. They both should go really, Michael Howard gained more seats than Corbyn in 2005 but it was fantasy to suggest he should carry on, the Conservative or Labour party should never tolerate failure. Parties of government shouldn't. Labour can win a majority in the next election, they won't do it with the current front bench though. They won't have the current bench. They will have the current leader.
Realist Guy In The Room Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 1 hour ago, MattP said: Hunt has left parliament. I don't think they will, Corbyn and especially McDonnell don't come across as people who tolerate what they have referred to as plotters. If anything I think they'll attack the moderates even more. We'll soon see though. I think all sides in the Labour party will be looking at things differently now. They've got a whiff of success and by the looks of them, think they can get over the line.
Mark_w Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-book-of-jeremy-corbyn 3 hours ago, MattP said: I think I've said this before, people like him don't resign, they have to be forced out. Will the moderates now give up the fight for Labour? I suspect that they might. Corbyn is going to deeply enjoy watching people like Umanna squirming from the backbenches now. Not winning the election. They both should go really, Michael Howard gained more seats than Corbyn in 2005 but it was fantasy to suggest he should carry on, the Conservative or Labour party should never tolerate failure. Parties of government shouldn't. Labour can win a majority in the next election, they won't do it with the current front bench though. He got 40% of the vote. The Conservatives are not going to have an easy year or two/three/four. Another poor Tory campaign coupled with a UKIP comeback that takes voters more effectively from the Tories than Labour (quite conceivable depending on how Brexit negotiations go), and he could very conceivably win the next election while changing very little. At least I don't see why he couldn't, but maybe I'm just being optimistic. There's no reason not to reach out to the rest of the party now though and it can only make Labour look stronger, so I hope he does.
Guest Kopfkino Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 May hasn't learnt, Damian Green is such a poor appointment for first secretary of state
Guest Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 13 minutes ago, KingGTF said: May hasn't learnt, Damian Green is such a poor appointment for first secretary of state She's just pulling in anyone that might be in a position to launch or be involved in a leadership challenge. What's best for the country is out of the window at this point, it's purely about her survival.
Stadt Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 Hunt and Gove are the most toxic politicians in the country, she has no idea what she's doing
Strokes Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 7 minutes ago, Wookie said: Hunt and Gove are the most toxic politicians in the country, she has no idea what she's doing She needs putting down! Im quite open to labour/Corbyn mounting a challenge, now they have said they would take us out of the single market.
The Horse's Mouth Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 she might be one of the worst politicians I've ever seen **** me
leicsmac Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 A man who wanted to put climate change dismissal in schools as Environmental Secretary. OK then...
Stadt Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 I was thinking the other day she's showing more and more of Trump's traits
Rob1742 Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 I was hoping this would be all over, but unfortunately it is not. Adults acting like 10 year olds, telling lies, backstabbing and everything that the school playground was. I hoped it would have been over on Friday, but no. Although someone polled more votes than the other, the one that came second is going on like it came first and you would have thought that they had won. So rather than congratulating them, and allowing them to try and do their best for the country, they stick the knife in and try and make it as uncomfortable as possible. Governments and teachers, parents etc go on about sportsmen that set a bad example, but these politicians are far far worse than any spoilt sportsman. Its like someone winning the FA Cup 2-1, but the loser trying to grab the cup off the podium, not shaking hands at the end and then going on TV claiming they are the real winners as the winning goal was a deflection. It it is atrocious behaviour, shows the worse in human beings and shows why I don't vote. Behave yourselves, treat each other like human beings, act like you should then I will put an X in a box.
Nick Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 18 minutes ago, Rob1742 said: I was hoping this would be all over, but unfortunately it is not. Adults acting like 10 year olds, telling lies, backstabbing and everything that the school playground was. I hoped it would have been over on Friday, but no. Although someone polled more votes than the other, the one that came second is going on like it came first and you would have thought that they had won. So rather than congratulating them, and allowing them to try and do their best for the country, they stick the knife in and try and make it as uncomfortable as possible. Governments and teachers, parents etc go on about sportsmen that set a bad example, but these politicians are far far worse than any spoilt sportsman. Its like someone winning the FA Cup 2-1, but the loser trying to grab the cup off the podium, not shaking hands at the end and then going on TV claiming they are the real winners as the winning goal was a deflection. It it is atrocious behaviour, shows the worse in human beings and shows why I don't vote. Behave yourselves, treat each other like human beings, act like you should then I will put an X in a box. Wow.
lgfualol Posted 12 June 2017 Posted 12 June 2017 9 hours ago, leicsmac said: A man who wanted to put climate change dismissal in schools as Environmental Secretary. OK then... Voted against measures to tackle climate change and voted to sell our national forests... Perfect choice for the job.
SpacedX Posted 12 June 2017 Posted 12 June 2017 9 hours ago, leicsmac said: A man who wanted to put climate change dismissal in schools as Environmental Secretary. OK then... Oh I dunno, think of the Anglo-American relationship. Maybe Gove and Scott Pruitt can be friends.
Steven Posted 12 June 2017 Posted 12 June 2017 21 hours ago, MattP said: Jon Ashworth says Labour would work with the DUP on Sunday Politics. Ian Paisley says Ed Miliband tried to do a deal with them in 2015. Anyone outraged? Yes.
The Guvnor Posted 12 June 2017 Posted 12 June 2017 10 hours ago, toddybad said: Interesting I thought He might be right but he was Tony Blairs sidekick so basically a twat.
Alf Bentley Posted 12 June 2017 Posted 12 June 2017 22 hours ago, MattP said: Jon Ashworth says Labour would work with the DUP on Sunday Politics. Ian Paisley says Ed Miliband tried to do a deal with them in 2015. Anyone outraged? 21 hours ago, The Doctor said: Not seeing why miliband would be trying to do deals in 2015 when we had a Tory majority tbh. Still, these labour - DUP deals were never realistic possibilities, this one is. This suggestion mystified me, too. Turns out it wasn't 2015, it was 2010: http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/11/labour-tried-to-do-deals-with-the-dup-last-time-there-was-a-hung-parliament-6701733/ It was Brown who suggested the idea (with Miliband as part of his team), when there was a hung parliament in 2010. To be fair, Paisley mistakenly referred to 2015 in his tweet. Yes, it is disappointing that Brown suggested the idea. But nothing came of it, anyway. It looks as if something probably will come of this proposed Tory/DUP agreement - and at a critical time for N. Ireland (negotiations over Brexit & the border, talks to get Stormont up and running again). The content of any agreement will matter greatly - but so will the mere impression that London is once again, for the first time in 25+ years, a partisan player in N. Ireland, supporting the Unionists and opposing the Nationalists. I still can't believe May standing there, announcing herself as the PM of the "Conservative and Unionist Party" (Yes, I know it's the full, formal name of the Tory party, but it isn't normally used - it was used pointedly to highlight the impending deal). Imagine a Labour PM without a majority standing outside No. 10 at a time like this, announcing himself as the PM of the "Labour and Irish Nationalist Party".... There would rightly be outrage
davieG Posted 12 June 2017 Posted 12 June 2017 Seriously! Not for work or anyone of a nervous disposition.
Guest MattP Posted 12 June 2017 Posted 12 June 2017 13 hours ago, Mark_w said: http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-book-of-jeremy-corbyn He got 40% of the vote. The Conservatives are not going to have an easy year or two/three/four. Another poor Tory campaign coupled with a UKIP comeback that takes voters more effectively from the Tories than Labour (quite conceivable depending on how Brexit negotiations go), and he could very conceivably win the next election while changing very little. At least I don't see why he couldn't, but maybe I'm just being optimistic. There's no reason not to reach out to the rest of the party now though and it can only make Labour look stronger, so I hope he does. I give up trying to predict how the UKIP vote will fall now, outside of the North East it looks like it went more back to Labour than the Conservatives. Which shows Labour's position on still seeking a proper Brexit effectively was the right one, something I thought was bonkers as they would put the students/young people off, it didn't, I got it totally wrong. The next few years may well be difficult but that won't just be for the Tories, if the huge economic downturn does happen then Labour aren't going to be able to produce another "everything for free" manifesto at the next election, they were pushing it this time, if we have crashed and burned with a "no deal" - likely now I think, then whoever wins the next election is going to have be part of a government that will need to tighten it's belt. 12 hours ago, Strokes said: She needs putting down! Im quite open to labour/Corbyn mounting a challenge, now they have said they would take us out of the single market. If it wasn't for Corbyn I would be as well given the stance they have taken on the single market, even more so if we see the Tories heading into a "soft Brexit" and using the DUP as an excuse for doing so. Although David Davis has gone back on his interview now and said the people will be wondering whats going on if we don't leave it. It's all to play for but if we have an election in 2020 with the Tories offering us staying in the Single Market with FoM etc and Labour saying we'll leave it then my vote will go to the latter. 2 hours ago, Steven said: Yes. 1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said: This suggestion mystified me, too. Turns out it wasn't 2015, it was 2010: http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/11/labour-tried-to-do-deals-with-the-dup-last-time-there-was-a-hung-parliament-6701733/ It was Brown who suggested the idea (with Miliband as part of his team), when there was a hung parliament in 2010. To be fair, Paisley mistakenly referred to 2015 in his tweet. Yes, it is disappointing that Brown suggested the idea. But nothing came of it, anyway. It looks as if something probably will come of this proposed Tory/DUP agreement - and at a critical time for N. Ireland (negotiations over Brexit & the border, talks to get Stormont up and running again). The content of any agreement will matter greatly - but so will the mere impression that London is once again, for the first time in 25+ years, a partisan player in N. Ireland, supporting the Unionists and opposing the Nationalists. I still can't believe May standing there, announcing herself as the PM of the "Conservative and Unionist Party" (Yes, I know it's the full, formal name of the Tory party, but it isn't normally used - it was used pointedly to highlight the impending deal). Imagine a Labour PM without a majority standing outside No. 10 at a time like this, announcing himself as the PM of the "Labour and Irish Nationalist Party".... There would rightly be outrage Apologies, I was posting straight from the 2015 Paisley tweet, 2010 makes more sense as Brown was trying anything to cling on. I'd say to you and @Steven that there is nothing wrong with this, our electoral rules mean a coalition can be formed with anyone who is elected in the British Isles, I don't think it's ideal and I think some of the potential coalitions that have been touted are farcical but the fact is, whoever governs now, Labour or the Conservatives, would need votes from the DUP to govern, that's just what it is with the way the numbers have fell after the election. How Northern Ireland deals with this I don't know, but you can't just leave the British government effectively in political purgatory because of what the reaction might be. Very harsh on the last point, May used "Conservative and Unionist Party" in her first speech as the Prime Minister last year, she hasn't just pulled it out the bag now as you implied because of this deal. That said, I'm glad she's using it, the Union is more important than ever now and the Conservative is a party that isstanding up for that, It's not even in the same ballpark as potentially Labour announcing themselves in partnership of a nationlist movement from a foreign country. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-36789572 Quote On 11 July 2016, Theresa May became the leader of the Conservative Party with immediate effect following the withdrawal from the leadership election of her sole remaining opponent, Andrea Leadsom. She was appointed Prime Minister of the United Kingdom on 13 July 2016. She has promised social reform and a more centrist political outlook for the Conservative Party and its government.[75]In a speech after her appointment, May emphasised the term Unionist in the name of the party, reminding all of "the precious, precious bond between England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland".[76] May considers herself a one nation conservative.[77]
Steven Posted 12 June 2017 Posted 12 June 2017 1 minute ago, MattP said: I'd say to you and @Steven that there is nothing wrong with this, our electoral rules mean a coalition can be formed with anyone who is elected in the British Isles, I don't think it's ideal and I think some of the potential coalitions that have been touted are farcical but the fact is, whoever governs now, Labour or the Conservatives, would need votes from the DUP to govern, that's just what it is with the way the numbers have fell after the election. Everything wrong with this. This is a party that was forged to give voice to "Loyalist" paramilitaries.
Guest MattP Posted 12 June 2017 Posted 12 June 2017 Just now, Steven said: Everything wrong with this. This is a party that was forged to give voice to "Loyalist" paramilitaries. But whoever governs will have to work with them. That's the way the result has fell. What's the other option? Another election? What if then produces a result exactly the same? Another election? Then Another election?
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