Strokes Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 6 hours ago, The Doctor said: Dirkster abusing the youth then wondering why they disagree with him - thought it was just the lefties that didn't get that (since the eu still managed to get cast as left v right) I never really understood that.
Vacamion Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 I'm not comfortable with repeated suggestions that old people's votes, because they don't coincide with the way younger cohorts vote, are somehow wrongheaded or invalid. In Scotland, Indyref had a majority of older people voting "No", prompting the cybernats to wish for "cold Winters" and "thinning of the herd", etc. Everyone's vote is valid, no matter what their age. To suggest otherwise is just as vile a prejudice as any other prejudice. For full disclosure, i say this as a bloke in his mid forties who voted "remain" last year and Tory this time (holding my nose, to thwart the SNP).
Charl91 Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 9 minutes ago, Vacamion said: I'm not comfortable with repeated suggestions that old people's votes, because they don't coincide with the way younger cohorts vote, are somehow wrongheaded or invalid. In Scotland, Indyref had a majority of older people voting "No", prompting the cybernats to wish for "cold Winters" and "thinning of the herd", etc. Everyone's vote is valid, no matter what their age. To suggest otherwise is just as vile a prejudice as any other prejudice. For full disclosure, i say this as a bloke in his mid forties who voted "remain" last year and Tory this time (holding my nose, to thwart the SNP). Absolutely agree. A vote's a vote. On the other hand though, it irks me when the young are blasted in a condescending way for their "naive and ignorant" views, when in reality, many of the oldest generations are absolutely just as clueless when it comes to politics.
Vacamion Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 20 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Call the election please May There will be no elections called with her still at the helm. Boris, Sajid, Amber or Phil might call one, though.
The Doctor Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 3 hours ago, Strokes said: I never really understood that. I can only assume it was because ukip are fairly right wing, and they were the main party people thought of when you said euroskeptic.
Nick Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 So Labour think they can form a minority government.... despite the fact they'd only have 314 seats between all left wing bum chums.... They still seem to think they'd get a queens speech blessing out of it can't see how? In 1974 there was a similar situation but I'm unsure how many seats made up the minority government on that occasion.
Guest Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 1 hour ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Call the election please May Does anybody really believe that the Tory support can be as high as almost 40%
Guest Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 12 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: So Labour think they can form a minority government.... despite the fact they'd only have 314 seats between all left wing bum chums.... They still seem to think they'd get a queens speech blessing out of it can't see how? In 1974 there was a similar situation but I'm unsure how many seats made up the minority government on that occasion. No I don't think they do. It would be nuts to try. But they do need to bring May down ASAP as any new leader for the Tories would HAVE to change their direction You can't have a government with new leader AND new policies just after an election so they'd have no choice but to go back to the polls. And then Labour win.
Nick Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 5 minutes ago, toddybad said: No I don't think they do. It would be nuts to try. But they do need to bring May down ASAP as any new leader for the Tories would HAVE to change their direction You can't have a government with new leader AND new policies just after an election so they'd have no choice but to go back to the polls. And then Labour win. Yeah but there's rumours that they are going to try and I just don't see how they could get a mandate.... Maybe it is about pushing for an election but weirdly I quite fancy a government which would operate on a policy by policy vote - it may be a bit more centrist and possibly a bit more stable? (Ha who am I kidding)
Guest MattP Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 27 minutes ago, toddybad said: No I don't think they do. It would be nuts to try. But they do need to bring May down ASAP as any new leader for the Tories would HAVE to change their direction You can't have a government with new leader AND new policies just after an election so they'd have no choice but to go back to the polls. And then Labour win. Of course they have a choice. No way in a million years do the Tories call an election now.
Guest MattP Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 Jon Ashworth says Labour would work with the DUP on Sunday Politics. Ian Paisley says Ed Miliband tried to do a deal with them in 2015. Anyone outraged?
Guest Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 Just now, MattP said: Of course they have a choice. No way in a million years do the Tories call an election now. They wouldn't want to, granted. But you can't seriously fight an election on one manifesto and then immediately alter it. And they'll have to alter it. You watch money suddenly become available and hard brexit is well and truly finished.
Guest Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 1 minute ago, MattP said: Jon Ashworth says Labour would work with the DUP on Sunday Politics. Ian Paisley says Ed Miliband tried to do a deal with them in 2015. Anyone outraged? I think any party would be best off leaving the DUP well alone. You must understand, though, the reason for the outrage is the right's tactics over the last 2 months? People in glass houses and all that.
The Doctor Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 Ian Paisley died in 2014... Can't see miliband communing with the dead to try and keep a Tory majority out of government.
Lionator Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 6 minutes ago, The Doctor said: Ian Paisley died in 2014... Can't see miliband communing with the dead to try and keep a Tory majority out of government. He has a son with the same name to be fair. The people of this country don't deserve the politicians we have. The internal politics between the Tories (May/Boris/Hammond/Osborne etc) proves it's all about individual power, Theresa has completely sold out so that she can stay in power and it will inevitably crumble and whoever picks up the pieces will be on a hiding to nothing. Brexit is a disaster, the Prime Minister is a disaster, the whole thing is a sham and this must be one of the darkest moments in modern British history.
Strokes Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 1 hour ago, The Doctor said: I can only assume it was because ukip are fairly right wing, and they were the main party people thought of when you said euroskeptic. Yeah I guess so. The argument for leaving was always stronger from a left wing perspective, the right really only had immigration control. It's a shame that immigration dominated the whole campaign as I think it put off a lot from the left. In hindsight it was a terribly divisive in more ways than one.
Strokes Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 46 minutes ago, toddybad said: Does anybody really believe that the Tory support can be as high as almost 40% genuinely no.
The Doctor Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 5 minutes ago, Lionator said: He has a son with the same name to be fair. The people of this country don't deserve the politicians we have. The internal politics between the Tories (May/Boris/Hammond/Osborne etc) proves it's all about individual power, Theresa has completely sold out so that she can stay in power and it will inevitably crumble and whoever picks up the pieces will be on a hiding to nothing. Brexit is a disaster, the Prime Minister is a disaster, the whole thing is a sham and this must be one of the darkest moments in modern British history. I know what Matt will mean, it'll have been Browns rainbow coalition in 2010. I just wanted to make a flippant joke. Brown was a fool for trying that, and I'm glad he failed, but it's a different scenario then - DUP would have been a tiny section, well behind Dems and co, here they're propping may up.
Guest MattP Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 21 minutes ago, toddybad said: They wouldn't want to, granted. But you can't seriously fight an election on one manifesto and then immediately alter it. And they'll have to alter it. You watch money suddenly become available and hard brexit is well and truly finished. We've just literally seen all this happen as recently as 2010-2015. I'd say no deal is now extremely likely, hard Brexit might be forced on us by Europe instead of ourselves. 19 minutes ago, The Doctor said: Ian Paisley died in 2014... Can't see miliband communing with the dead to try and keep a Tory majority out of government. Ian Paisley Jnr Doc.
Nick Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 23 minutes ago, MattP said: Jon Ashworth says Labour would work with the DUP on Sunday Politics. Ian Paisley says Ed Miliband tried to do a deal with them in 2015. Anyone outraged? It's the combination I think more than anything. May appears to be basically from a left perspective a summation of the very worst parts of Thatcher... this ruthless detachment driven by a desire for power combined with the DUP's values just kinda suggests that there won't be much desire to regulate their influence as much as a pairing from a more liberally inclusive approach from a party not so far to the right might.
The Doctor Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 8 minutes ago, MattP said: We've just literally seen all this happen as recently as 2010-2015. I'd say no deal is now extremely likely, hard Brexit might be forced on us by Europe instead of ourselves. Ian Paisley Jnr Doc. Not seeing why miliband would be trying to do deals in 2015 when we had a Tory majority tbh. Still, these labour - DUP deals were never realistic possibilities, this one is.
Guest Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 12 minutes ago, MattP said: We've just literally seen all this happen as recently as 2010-2015. I'd say no deal is now extremely likely, hard Brexit might be forced on us by Europe instead of ourselves. In 2010 Cameron had the largest numbers and formed a coalition. He remained leader of the party and, although some concessions were made to the Lib Dems, the Tory proposals were broadly carried forward. Also, as a coalition government there is recognition within this that both parties have a bit of a say. Tories were the party with the impetus at that time. In the here and now if May goes you're talking about a new Tory leader who would have to bring forward different policies as the electorate (and tory MPs) clearly weren't happy with the manifesto you offered. This also isn't a coalition so it's one party with new figurehead and new policies. I don't think this is the same at all.
The Doctor Posted 11 June 2017 Posted 11 June 2017 So, in addition to failing to register to vote in his constituency, turns out Paul Nuttall didn't even get to read his party's manifesto before going to the country with it: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/11/ukip-leader-paul-nuttall-not-read-party-manifesto-before-tv-debate got ourselves a quality joke party here.
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