Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Strokes]

43 minutes ago, toddybad said:

I'm not sure i used the word hate. 

My point is that they're not being honest with the public because they have to keep internal factions happy. If you think that's fantastic then well done to you. 

Maybe they don't take what the EU negotiators say at face value, maybe they're bluffing or being a bit disingenuous. Did that ever occur to you?

[Strokes]

18 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Terrible. Ridiculous.

 

MPs attack ejection of 'underperforming' sixth-formers

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/aug/30/mps-attack-ejection-of-underperforming-sixth-formers?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

Why is it ridiculous? It makes perfect sense.

[Guest]

Just now, Strokes said:

Maybe they don't take what the EU negotiators say at face value, maybe they're bluffing or being a bit disingenuous. Did that ever occur to you?

I don't understand where this idea national negotiation are the dark arts comes from. The eu have never put together a trade deal in under 5 years. Trade deals are both sides trying to get the best outcome not both sides trying to screw each other. I'd rather it took longer and was a properly soothed through deal than rushed. Do we have time to waste trying to get them to agree to talk trade when were already down to 18 months?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

Why is it ridiculous? It makes perfect sense.

 what the schools were doing was ridiculous. 

[Strokes]

Just now, toddybad said:

I don't understand where this idea national negotiation are the dark arts comes from. The eu have never put together a trade deal in under 5 years. Trade deals are both sides trying to get the best outcome not both sides trying to screw each other. I'd rather it took longer and was a properly soothed through deal than rushed. Do we have time to waste trying to get them to agree to talk trade when were already down to 18 months?

The EU has never negotiated a trade deal with a member before, stumbling blocks that normally occur are already legislation because we already trade with them. Its not your normal run of the mill deal.

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, toddybad said:

 what the schools were doing was ridiculous. 

Why? It's a grammer schools, its supposed to be selective. The parents or students can't complain now.

[Guest Kopfkino]

6 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Why? It's a grammer schools, its supposed to be selective. The parents or students can't complain now.

 

But it's unlawful. You can't seriously defend a school for throwing students out because it might bring their league table performance down

[Strokes]

Just now, KingGTF said:

 

But it's unlawful. You can't seriously defend a school for throwing students out because it might bring their league table performance down

If they told them the standards beforehand, yes absolutely. Time will tell whether it's unlawful or not but I suspect it won't be.

[Strokes]

4 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

 

But it's unlawful. You can't seriously defend a school for throwing students out because it might bring their league table performance down

I'd just like to add, if it was a comprehensive school I would agree with you. A grammar school is about the grades, you are in competition from day one. You don't have to choose this education path but if you Do, you know this. 

I can't understand what is so outrageous.

[Guest Kopfkino]

12 minutes ago, Strokes said:

If they told them the standards beforehand, yes absolutely. Time will tell whether it's unlawful or not but I suspect it won't be.

 

I'd just like to add, if it was a comprehensive school I would agree with you. A grammar school is about the grades, you are in competition from day one. You don't have to choose this education path but if you Do, you know this. 

I can't understand what is so outrageous.

 

Well if the law is exclusion can only be for disciplinary reasons and not academic attainment then I don't see how it is anything but unlawful.

 

The school has admitted these students under its admissions criteria but now seems to be shifting the entire blame for sub-optimal results onto the students. If they dropped their admissions standards then that is their own fault and they can't throw people out cos they got it wrong a year earlier. And if they haven't done that, a capable student that has been admitted hasn't bombed this year for no reason. As a school, it's now not fulfilling its basic duty of education and welfare to the students it admitted but has now thrown out to save league table performance. You don't even get universities throwing people out for getting 3rds. 

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I'd just like to add, if it was a comprehensive school I would agree with you. A grammar school is about the grades, you are in competition from day one. You don't have to choose this education path but if you Do, you know this. 

I can't understand what is so outrageous.

This sort of attitude, about decisions affecting the entire future of children, is absolutely fvcking disgraceful.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Strokes said:

The EU has never negotiated a trade deal with a member before, stumbling blocks that normally occur are already legislation because we already trade with them. Its not your normal run of the mill deal.

The sort of ignore the experts post we're getting used to on brexit. 

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, toddybad said:

This sort of attitude, about decisions affecting the entire future of children, is absolutely fvcking disgraceful.

 

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Strokes said:

 

Laugh it up mate. This kind of sneering, no time for anybody else attitude is why this country is going to the dogs. 

[Guest Kopfkino]

6 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Laugh it up mate. This kind of sneering, no time for anybody else attitude is why this country is going to the dogs. 

 'going to the dogs' ffs

Edited 30 August 2017 by KingGTF

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

 'going to the dogs' ffs

 You know what i mean. 

This sod everybody else attitude that has fomented amongst the right. 

Sod the young, sod students and their huge debts, sod the life chances of those at school, sod paying the little man enough to live on, sod helping the poor, sod mental health, sod immigrants, sod human rights, sod the feckless foodbank users, sod the experts.

Essentially an attitude of: it costs me a pound sod the lot of you. 

Absolutely fed up of the cold heartedness of much political discourse in this country. 

[Webbo]

6 minutes ago, toddybad said:

 You know what i mean. 

This sod everybody else attitude that has fomented amongst the right. 

Sod the young, sod students and their huge debts, sod the life chances of those at school, sod paying the little man enough to live on, sod helping the poor, sod mental health, sod immigrants, sod human rights, sod the feckless foodbank users, sod the experts.

Essentially an attitude of: it costs me a pound sod the lot of you. 

Absolutely fed up of the cold heartedness of much political discourse in this country. 

Don't be so melodramatic.

[Guest MattP]

Yeah sod the students and their huge debt, let's give everyone huge debt. At least then it's proper socialism (until it fails then its not of course) and we are all equal. 

 

Socialism is like that one club you've been to 5 or 6 times, that's always shit, that your idiot friend keeps insisting is full of fit birds but never is.

 

They keep insisting it'll be better next time. But it's always shit and always will be.

Edited 30 August 2017 by MattP

[Guest Kopfkino]

7 minutes ago, toddybad said:

 You know what i mean. 

This sod everybody else attitude that has fomented amongst the right. 

Sod the young, sod students and their huge debts, sod the life chances of those at school, sod paying the little man enough to live on, sod helping the poor, sod mental health, sod immigrants, sod human rights, sod the feckless foodbank users, sod the experts.

Essentially an attitude of: it costs me a pound sod the lot of you. 

Absolutely fed up of the cold heartedness of much political discourse in this country. 

 

 

Maybe you should take a step back and think about what you say for just two seconds. Do you really think 'the right' has an attitude of sod the poor, sod mental health etc etc? Cos if you do, then you are a fool. If I genuinely thought or had been shown a way that you can legislate people into wealth, or that there are no ramifications elsewhere from spending decisions, then I would get behind it. I have my theories for solving the problems that face us, you have yours, other people have theirs. Very few have this sod you attitude you speak of. 

 

Still you are a man of the left showing the true colours of the left. You're all blind to the intolerance and hatred that comes out of your mouths because you're too busy virtue-signalling to everyone else. 

 

[Guest Kopfkino]

11 minutes ago, MattP said:

Yeah sod the students and their huge debt, let's give everyone huge debt. At least then it's proper socialism (until it fails then its not of course) and we are all equal. 

 

Socialism is like that one club you've been to 5 or 6 times, that's always shit, that your idiot friend keeps insisting is full of fit birds but never is.

 

They keep insisting it'll be better next time. But it's always shit and always will be.

 

And then the bouncer builds a wall to keep you in.

[Guest MattP]

6 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

 

 

Maybe you should take a step back and think about what you say for just two seconds. Do you really think 'the right' has an attitude of sod the poor, sod mental health etc etc? Cos if you do, then you are a fool. If I genuinely thought or had been shown a way that you can legislate people into wealth, or that there are no ramifications elsewhere from spending decisions, then I would get behind it. I have my theories for solving the problems that face us, you have yours, other people have theirs. Very few have this sod you attitude you speak of. 

 

Still you are a man of the left showing the true colours of the left. You're all blind to the intolerance and hatred that comes out of your mouths because you're too busy virtue-signalling to everyone else. 

If I was a lefty I'd be quoting this with just a clapping emoji to flash my own virtue, superb. 

Edited 30 August 2017 by MattP

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

 

 

Maybe you should take a step back and think about what you say for just two seconds. Do you really think 'the right' has an attitude of sod the poor, sod mental health etc etc? Cos if you do, then you are a fool. If I genuinely thought or had been shown a way that you can legislate people into wealth, or that there are no ramifications elsewhere from spending decisions, then I would get behind it. I have my theories for solving the problems that face us, you have yours, other people have theirs. Very few have this sod you attitude you speak of. 

 

Still you are a man of the left showing the true colours of the left. You're all blind to the intolerance and hatred that comes out of your mouths because you're too busy virtue-signalling to everyone else. 

 

There's no intolerance in what I've said. When i talk about thr right i don't mean all of the right - you seem a perfectly affable chap with reasoned ideas even if i can't agree with them. But on a range of issues you get more extreme views which are, in my estimation, pretty vile. The idea that it is fine - in fact to actually support - schools kicking kids out halfway through their a- levels is not within the bounds of normal discourse - as will be seen from the political reaction and outcry that will follow. 

Edited 30 August 2017 by Guest

[Lionator]

14 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

 

 

Maybe you should take a step back and think about what you say for just two seconds. Do you really think 'the right' has an attitude of sod the poor, sod mental health etc etc? Cos if you do, then you are a fool. If I genuinely thought or had been shown a way that you can legislate people into wealth, or that there are no ramifications elsewhere from spending decisions, then I would get behind it. I have my theories for solving the problems that face us, you have yours, other people have theirs. Very few have this sod you attitude you speak of. 

 

Still you are a man of the left showing the true colours of the left. You're all blind to the intolerance and hatred that comes out of your mouths because you're too busy virtue-signalling to everyone else. 

 

You'd be surprised. For us guys and girls into politics whether left or right, we think about topics quite deeply but there's a lot of people out there who couldn't give a monkeys about certain things, using the school example there are a lot people wouldn't think about the consequences of a system which spits out children out because they've 'failed' or been failed by the system. As a result they could end up on benefits taking the taxpayers money. A friend that I went to school with didn't get into her sixth form at her grammar school and came to our non-grammar sixth form and fell apart, didn't get into university, couldn't get a job and now runs her own dog grooming company.

 

We had that survey which came out that said that over 25% of people said that family members losing their jobs would be a price worth paying for pushing Brexit through. Those people simply don't think that it'd happen to their family member and it'll always happen to someone else, they genuinely don't think of the consequences of political actions. 

Edited 30 August 2017 by Lionator

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

You'd be surprised. For us guys and girls into politics whether left or right, we think about topics quite deeply but there's a lot of people out there who couldn't give a monkeys about certain things, using the school example there are a lot people wouldn't think about the consequences of a system which spits out children out because they've 'failed' or been failed by the system. As a result they could end up on benefits taking the taxpayers money. A friend that I went to school with didn't get into her sixth form at her grammar school and came to our non-grammar sixth form and fell apart, didn't get into university, couldn't get a job and now runs her own dog grooming company.

 

We had that survey which came out that said that over 25% of people said that family members losing their jobs would be a price worth paying for pushing Brexit through. Those people simply don't think that it'd happen to their family member and it'll always happen to someone else, they genuinely don't think of the consequences of political actions. 

Yeah, this. Lack of perspective beyond the personal is a very prevalent thing and can be very dangerous.

[Strokes]

3 hours ago, toddybad said:

Laugh it up mate. This kind of sneering, no time for anybody else attitude is why this country is going to the dogs. 

You are such a drama queen, it's probably why nobody takes you serious on the occasion you do offer decent arguments.