Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

I don't predict that, it was just a question. I think a trade deal with the eu is vital - walking away would be pretty bad imo - but we'll survive if we get one that's okay. 

Imo comparison with fighting wars is ridiculous. It was a club we helped form. Just think its become a scapegoat for people. Right wing media poisoned all discussion of europe.

It's not a comparison.

[Guest]

I am of the opinion that boris, davis ans may don't really believe their pubic pronouncements though. I absolutely do believe that the leak of the conversation at the number 10 dinner was accurate - that may wants to leave the eu but then opt back in to most of it on the quiet - much as she did with law and order stuff with the eu. I think boris and davis know full well how bad no deal would be.

I think its just the likes of redwood, mogg and fox that are too stupid to see the obvious.

[Webbo]

Don't buy the EU's bullshit, they need a deal too. They'll be feeding us all this rubbish for a year or more and then , around January 2019 things will start to happen.

[Guest]

The Guardian view on the Brexit talks: clouds of delusion

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/01/the-guardian-view-on-the-brexit-talks-clouds-of-delusion?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

[Dr The Singh]

May needs a facelift and a boob job

[BlueSi13]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

The Guardian view on the Brexit talks: clouds of delusion

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/01/the-guardian-view-on-the-brexit-talks-clouds-of-delusion?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

Oh goody, another Guardian link.

 

Let me guess, the EU are completely in the right whilst nasty racist arrogant little Britain is having its pants pulled down?  How's my aim?

[Webbo]

[Guest MattP]

Sarah Champions first interview since being ousted from her job, says what most of us know - the "floppy left" can't bring themselves to confront the truth about sex crimes.

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4375922/mp-sarah-champion-blasts-jeremy-corbyn-for-ignoring-race-problems/

[Guest MattP]

9 hours ago, toddybad said:

The Guardian view on the Brexit talks: clouds of delusion

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/01/the-guardian-view-on-the-brexit-talks-clouds-of-delusion?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

Imagine trying to write a serious supposedly neutral editorial on Brexit and basing it on Michael O' Leary thoughts.

[Guest MattP]

Manufacturers defy Brexit gloom with rapid growth. 

 

http://thetimes.co.uk/article/880b11f0-8f51-11e7-8a9b-cc2ed7ce991f

[Guest MattP]

Here's the full interview with Champion.

 

http://thetimes.co.uk/article/d45da0fe-8f3d-11e7-8a9b-cc2ed7ce991f

 

"I'd rather be called a racist than turn a blind eye to child abuse"

 

Here here Sarah, here here. Really hope she resigns soon, far too good for the Labour party.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

 

 

https://fullfact.org/health/fact-or-fiction-welsh-nhs-performs-poorly-compared-english-nhs/

 

This is possibly a starting point for comparing performance of the NHS between England and Wales... https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/talks/slideshows/comparing-four-health-systems-uk taking you on to this report.

 

One could also consider it futile or politically self-centred to try and compare two very different situations with only a broad common demnoimator. 

[Guest MattP]

This is the guy the people of Sheffield Hallam kicked out Nick Clegg for

 

 

[Strokes]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

Here's the full interview with Champion.

 

http://thetimes.co.uk/article/d45da0fe-8f3d-11e7-8a9b-cc2ed7ce991f

 

"I'd rather be called a racist than turn a blind eye to child abuse"

 

Here here Sarah, here here. Really hope she resigns soon, far too good for the Labour party.

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/here-here-vs-hear-hear/

[Guest]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

This is the guy the people of Sheffield Hallam kicked out Nick Clegg for

 

 

When he gave his victory speech after the result was called i was agog. Clearly they didn't have time to properly sift the candidates!

[Buce]

25 minutes ago, toddybad said:

When he gave his victory speech after the result was called i was agog. Clearly they didn't have time to properly sift the candidates!

 

The Tories have Bozo as Foreign Secretary. 

 

Nuff said. 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Webbo said:

Apples and pears.

Here's waiting lists in England:

 

End of 90s tories into new labour

 

 

 

and then the latest tory crusade on health.

 

 

[Webbo]

Not got the figures for Wales then?

[Strokes]

17 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Apples and pears.

Here's waiting lists in England:

 

End of 90s tories into new labour

 

 

 

and then the latest tory crusade on health.

 

 

Yeah we could all do that if we paid for it by PFI, simple fact is we are still paying for that nice little graph now. 3% of the NHS total budget goes towards funding payments to pfi firms under blairs years. Remind me again who is privatising the NHS?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

Yeah we could all do that if we paid for it by PFI, simple fact is we are still paying for that nice little graph now. 3% of the NHS total budget goes towards funding payments to pfi firms under blairs years. Remind me again who is privatising the NHS?

PFI didn't pay for waiting list reduction so it has nothing to do with PFI.

PFI was ridiculous, don't get me wrong. Both parties have used PFI and it is not a good thing at all. Absolutely Blair shouldn't have gone down that road - national debt would have been much cheaper than private borrowing. 

There really doesn't need t be a Tory/Labour argument here. It's plainly obvious that waiting lists were high in the 90s under Tory rule. Labour increased funding hugely and waiting times improved. Now the Tories have cut back and they are increasing again. It is hardly rocket science to understand that this is cause and effect.

The same is true in other areas of public spending.

I guess people like Captain who would like a strong third party would say that under Labour spending is too high (I wouldn't say that) but it has good social results. Under the Tories spending is too low (you wouldn't say that) and the social effects are damaging (you wouldn't say that either!). 

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, toddybad said:

PFI didn't pay for waiting list reduction so it has nothing to do with PFI.

PFI was ridiculous, don't get me wrong. Both parties have used PFI and it is not a good thing at all. Absolutely Blair shouldn't have gone down that road - national debt would have been much cheaper than private borrowing. 

There really doesn't need t be a Tory/Labour argument here. It's plainly obvious that waiting lists were high in the 90s under Tory rule. Labour increased funding hugely and waiting times improved. Now the Tories have cut back and they are increasing again. It is hardly rocket science to understand that this is cause and effect.

The same is true in other areas of public spending.

I guess people like Captain who would like a strong third party would say that under Labour spending is too high (I wouldn't say that) but it has good social results. Under the Tories spending is too low (you wouldn't say that) and the social effects are damaging (you wouldn't say that either!). 

Not directly no.

if you use pfi money for infrastructure, then you have more to tackle other issues elsewhere and then you pass the cost on to future governments. Nice move.

[Guest]

Just now, Strokes said:

Not directly no.

if you use pfi money for infrastructure, then you have more to tackle other issues elsewhere and then you pass the cost on to future governments. Nice move.

As I said, they should have just borrowed normally. Hospitals etc do need renovation or rebuilding and it does cost serious money. Capital borrowing for this reason should be fine.

 

One of the issues in this country is we constantly oscillate from underspending to high spending. Labour get social issues sorted but lose due to tax levels or economic issues. Tories come in a underspend to cut taxes or whatever and the social issues come back. Because there's no consistency nobody is ever able to put extra money towards a sensible long-term plan of rebuilding which both parties sign up to and which takes place over decades. Instead, eventually a party (which is always likely to be labour based on ideologies) has to spend an absolute ton on doing up hundreds of schools and hospitals. 

[Strokes]

Just now, toddybad said:

As I said, they should have just borrowed normally. Hospitals etc do need renovation or rebuilding and it does cost serious money. Capital borrowing for this reason should be fine.

 

One of the issues in this country is we constantly oscillate from underspending to high spending. Labour get social issues sorted but lose due to tax levels or economic issues. Tories come in a underspend to cut taxes or whatever and the social issues come back. Because there's no consistency nobody is ever able to put extra money towards a sensible long-term plan of rebuilding which both parties sign up to and which takes place over decades. Instead, eventually a party (which is always likely to be labour based on ideologies) has to spend an absolute ton on doing up hundreds of schools and hospitals. 

You know why Blair didn't borrow normally don't you?

[Guest]

Just now, Strokes said:

You know why Blair didn't borrow normally don't you?

What's your theory squire?

[Carl the Llama]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/01/disaster-texas-america-britain-yemen