Sharpe's Fox Posted 27 August 2017 Posted 27 August 2017 Just now, Webbo said: I said when the election was called? The tories had a far bigger lead. Polls at this stage are pointless. Yeah you're right I'm looking forward to the natural campaigners in the PCP and the 10 party members in each constituency closing that gap during the election. Maybe they'll drag Crosby back for another round of Facebook advertising/character assassination. Party like it's 2015 and all that.
Webbo Posted 27 August 2017 Posted 27 August 2017 4 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Yeah you're right I'm looking forward to the natural campaigners in the PCP and the 10 party members in each constituency closing that gap during the election. Maybe they'll drag Crosby back for another round of Facebook advertising/character assassination. Party like it's 2015 and all that. Like labour never does that. You'll realise when you get older.
Sharpe's Fox Posted 27 August 2017 Posted 27 August 2017 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: Like labour never does that. You'll realise when you get older. I realise it now. John McDonnell is the most cynical bastard around and it's great banter, but only because we're winning.
Alf Bentley Posted 27 August 2017 Posted 27 August 2017 On 8/26/2017 at 11:58, Sharpe's Fox said: "A southern female detective with traumatic agricultural childhood trauma travels to an enemy heartland up north after a brutal election result which nearly destroyed her career." There was a feature-length prequel covering her traumatic agricultural childhood. Sickening scenes as the farmer finds her hiding in his crops and she loses control of her bowels... 1
Alf Bentley Posted 27 August 2017 Posted 27 August 2017 2 hours ago, toddybad said: Although i think this is a good idea, I'm not sure its good for labour's electoral hopes tbh Labour makes dramatic Brexit shift and backs single market membership https://www.theguardian.com/global/2017/aug/26/labour-calls-for-lengthy-transitional-period-post-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Although it's a gamble, it's the right gamble, I think. Although Labour's "creative ambiguity" about Brexit worked well at the election, that's not a viable option as the whole issue comes to a head over the next 18 months. As well as being poor policy, it would have been an even bigger gamble to stay too close to the Tories on Brexit policy - advocating a slightly softer Hard Brexit. The majority of Labour voters, members and MPs support either Remain or Soft Brexit, depending on what is achievable given the national mood. They have more votes to lose from Remainers than from Brexiters. If the economy struggles and no good Brexit deal is in the offing, the public mood could well shift more towards Soft Brexit or even Remain. That is especially true as immigration may become less of an issue given the large outflux of EU citizens alienated by the fall in the pound and/or feeling unwelcome here. In the short-term, the Tories are hardly in a good position to call another election, even if they somehow replaced May with a more popular leader and united behind him/her. It would look very bad to call yet another election voluntarily while the Brexit negotiations are ongoing. So I imagine that the only way that there'll be another election any time soon is if the govt loses a confidence vote in the Commons. Labour adopting a softer Brexit policy will also make it more of a challenge for the Tories to maintain unity, both within the parliamentary party and within the cabinet - pro-Remain Tory MPs/ministers will be able to use Labour's position to press for a more moderate Tory policy on Brexit, with implied threats that they could bring down the govt by withholding support in a parliamentary vote. The risk for Labour is if support for Hard Brexit remains strong, either because the economy and negotiations go well (highly unlikely) or because things go badly but the public blame the EU/foreigners, not the govt or UK negotiators (more likely). That could see a weird scenario where a disastrous Hard Brexit proceeds, the Tories gain support in deprived working-class northern towns and Labour gain support in prosperous parts of the south, big cities and university towns....and we'd have a lot of economic damage and political polarisation in the UK. As I understand it, the policy is now only for single market & customs union during the transitional period (2019-2021?), though that could gradually shift towards support for some sort of long-term Soft Brexit or rejection of the solution negotiated at a second referendum....
Guest MattP Posted 28 August 2017 Posted 28 August 2017 20 hours ago, Webbo said: Don't worry, they'll have another position in a fortnight. It would be funny it is wasn't true. It was only a few weeks you were sacked from the front bench for supporting what is now supposedly party policy what a shambles. Although I fully expect JC or JM to undermine Starmer on this st some point this week. 20 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said: Thinks it's about now, bud. I'm not talking soft left types I'm talking Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and Chris Williamson here, literal Marxists are ahead of you lot right now. The polls show than even with awful Theresa in charge, Corbyn still get anywhere near majority.
Sharpe's Fox Posted 28 August 2017 Posted 28 August 2017 2 hours ago, MattP said: The polls show than even with awful Theresa in charge, Corbyn still get anywhere near majority. You're the last person I'd think of who would be normalising Marxists being in a position to create any sort of government. 1
Guest MattP Posted 28 August 2017 Posted 28 August 2017 8 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said: You're the last person I'd think of who would be normalising Marxists being in a position to create any sort of government. If their intention is to stay in the single market they couldn't enact any Marxist policy anyway so it wouldn't even matter. May as well just be new Labour again.
Guest Posted 28 August 2017 Posted 28 August 2017 1 hour ago, MattP said: If their intention is to stay in the single market they couldn't enact any Marxist policy anyway so it wouldn't even matter. May as well just be new Labour again. Lmao
theessexfox Posted 29 August 2017 Posted 29 August 2017 Some interesting recent polling. Seems odd that 10% didn't believe the £350m a week line at the time, but think it will happen now ?
Guest Posted 29 August 2017 Posted 29 August 2017 Boris being ripped apart by the times. About time he started getting pulled uo on being an incoherent oaf much of the time. Boris Johnson is becoming the Where’s Wally? of international diplomacy. All over the world the geopolitical tectonic plates are shifting yet at this time of huge global significance the foreign secretary is all but invisible on the international stage. On the nuclear threat posed by North Korea, the crisis over Saudi Arabia and Qatar or the clash between the US and China, he is irrelevant. On Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Russia, Venezuela, Turkey and Yemen, he is incoherent. Occasionally he surfaces briefly, like a hostage paraded before the television cameras to prove he is still alive, as he did after a visit to Libya last week, but even then he is ineffective because he has ceded all influence to others. As the US enters an extraordinary culture war under Donald Trump, Mr Johnson remains morally ambiguous, flip-flopping between dismissing criticisms of the president as a “whinge-o-rama” and claiming he got it “totally wrong” in his response to the recent racial violence in Charlottesville. He made a serious strategic error in aligning himself so quickly with a divisive populist across the Atlantic who no longer even has the support of his own Republican Party. In this country, Labour has finally joined the argument about the implementation of Brexit, but the foreign secretary is nowhere to be seen in that debate. Having fooled the United Kingdom into voting to leave the European Union, by promising that it would mean an additional £350 million a week for the NHS, he has no realistic idea of what Brexit should entail. He suggests the policy should be to have our cake and eat it and that other EU countries can “go whistle” for UK payments, as if this were some kind of public school game rather than a negotiation on which the future of the nation depends. Again, there is an inability or an unwillingness to think through the long-term consequences of his position ... I’ve just spent a fortnight in America and was shocked by the number of tech entrepreneurs, hedge fund managers and political strategists I met who asked: “Why has your prime minister appointed a fool as foreign secretary?” According to diplomatic sources, even officials at the Trump White House “don’t want to go anywhere near Boris because they think he’s a joke”. If that seems ironic, one minister says: “It’s worse in Europe. There is not a single foreign minister there who takes him seriously. They think he’s a clown who can never resist a gag.”
Guest MattP Posted 29 August 2017 Posted 29 August 2017 Boris is finished and the Tories should be delighted, no chance of him being PM now and I imagine he's lost his desire for the job. I'd be surprised if he stood in 2022.
Guest MattP Posted 29 August 2017 Posted 29 August 2017 The post-election Corbyn surge was never going to happen was it? A lot of people probably voted for him as they assumed they had lost the election anyway. Tories still being within a hung parliament on polling is fairly decent position as well given she's a failure and it will be someone who can actually campaign next time. I have no idea how he is going to squirm out of the internal single market debate, both he and the shadow chancellor are on record as saying people would feel cheated if voting to leave meant staying in it.
Strokes Posted 29 August 2017 Posted 29 August 2017 16 minutes ago, MattP said: The post-election Corbyn surge was never going to happen was it? A lot of people probably voted for him as they assumed they had lost the election anyway. Tories still being within a hung parliament on polling is fairly decent position as well given she's a failure and it will be someone who can actually campaign next time. I have no idea how he is going to squirm out of the internal single market debate, both he and the shadow chancellor are on record as saying people would feel cheated if voting to leave meant staying in it. I'm not sure how they will justify it to the northern constituents either, they will feel massively betrayed I would imagine. Labour could shrink from uk 2010 - mostly England 2015/2017 - just London and the south east 2022. Unless the jocks kiss and make up with them.
Guest MattP Posted 29 August 2017 Posted 29 August 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Strokes said: I'm not sure how they will justify it to the northern constituents either, they will feel massively betrayed I would imagine. Labour could shrink from uk 2010 - mostly England 2015/2017 - just London and the south east 2022. Unless the jocks kiss and make up with them. I have no idea what they will try to do. They did a brilliant job of playing both sides of the fence last election on the EU but that's not going to happen again. The post election research said that 40% of the 3.8 million UKIP votes 2010 went to Labour, I'd imagine most of them will be gone. Long term politics us realigning anyway, Labour membership is overwhelmingly middle class and maybe in twenty years it's vote also will be if current voting trends continue. Edited 29 August 2017 by MattP
Strokes Posted 29 August 2017 Posted 29 August 2017 I can see a UKIP resurgence now, which would be a shame given the recent extreme stuff coming from them. Im not sure any of these can be trusted to deliver brexit as it should be.
Guest MattP Posted 29 August 2017 Posted 29 August 2017 5 minutes ago, Strokes said: I can see a UKIP resurgence now, which would be a shame given the recent extreme stuff coming from them. Im not sure any of these can be trusted to deliver brexit as it should be. I can't it personally unless a certain person decides to come back into politics.
Strokes Posted 29 August 2017 Posted 29 August 2017 Just now, MattP said: I can't it personally unless a certain person decides to come back into politics. Last thing he said was, he would wait until the final deal before deciding whether there was still a fight to be had. So he could well be back before 2022.
Captain... Posted 29 August 2017 Posted 29 August 2017 43 minutes ago, Webbo said: That Don't know is really a neither, there is a gap for a new party right now there is so much uncertainty someone coming in with a clear policy and plan could clean up, so many people are dissatisfied with the political choices we currently have.
Innovindil Posted 29 August 2017 Posted 29 August 2017 7 minutes ago, Captain... said: That Don't know is really a neither, there is a gap for a new party right now there is so much uncertainty someone coming in with a clear policy and plan could clean up, so many people are dissatisfied with the political choices we currently have. I am so ready. #VoteInnovindil
Guest MattP Posted 29 August 2017 Posted 29 August 2017 Still absolutely neck and neck. I don't think it's impossible both parties will have new leaders by the time the next election comes around.
leicsmac Posted 29 August 2017 Posted 29 August 2017 46 minutes ago, MattP said: I can't it personally unless a certain person decides to come back into politics. Too busy trying to get into bed with Trump and get that cushty retirement job. (If it's the person I think you're referring to, anyway.)
Webbo Posted 29 August 2017 Posted 29 August 2017 1 hour ago, Captain... said: That Don't know is really a neither, there is a gap for a new party right now there is so much uncertainty someone coming in with a clear policy and plan could clean up, so many people are dissatisfied with the political choices we currently have. That poll is who'd make the best PM not which party. Matt's poll shows that the 2 main parties have over 80% between them.
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