Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[bovril]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Marr didn't ask him, funny enough.

No updates about Muslims, Pakistanis or Australians, either, though we do already know that he would marry a Chilean and a Mexican and would date Diane Abbott.

What about his views on pigeon / dove differences? 

[thebartonfox]

6 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

He claims that he was raising human rights issues, but doing so privately, not publicly. Admittedly, that begs the question why he could not also have raised attacks on the Greens privately and continued his role in the Iranian media.... 

 

Sadly for you and your ultra-Brexiteer mates, 99.9% of voters will pay as little attention to Corbyn's changing attitudes to Iran as they would to me if I were to point out that Boris called for Turkey to join an expanded EU.

Oh, go on then! Just one last time, if you insist.... 

 

 

That video is so Partridge 

[bovril]

1 hour ago, thebartonfox said:

That video is so Partridge 

"Try going to Bradford and saying that"  

[Guest]

Tories very publicly disintegrating

 

May told to clarify Brexit stance or face no-confidence vote

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/28/may-urged-clarify-brexit-position-face-no-confidence-vote?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

[TheyCallMeMrCarbohydrate]

10 hours ago, toddybad said:

Soft credit is out.

Hard Brexit is stupidity.

 

Presumably if it's a hung parliament and only labour can form a coalition you'll be okay with soft Brexit?

If we have a hard brexit it won’t stop the debate - but it will significantly narrow the options for future policy. There will be no going back if we give the EU the (ultimate) finger. Meaning the way ahead will be pretty obvious.

 

All a soft brexit does is ensure the bickering continues for the next 10-15 years, and, as people recognise that we’re facing off against the French and Germans anyway, despite trying to keep them happy, the inevitability of a ‘hard one’ will come to pass anyway.

 

Lets get it done now and save ourselves some pain.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeMrCarbohydrate said:

If we have a hard brexit it won’t stop the debate - but it will significantly narrow the options for future policy. There will be no going back if we give the EU the (ultimate) finger. Meaning the way ahead will be pretty obvious.

 

All a soft brexit does is ensure the bickering continues for the next 10-15 years, and, as people recognise that we’re facing off against the French and Germans anyway, despite trying to keep them happy, the inevitability of a ‘hard one’ will come to pass anyway.

 

Lets get it done now and save ourselves some pain.

That's an interesting way of looking at it.

I won't actually argue with your reasoning, there's no reason to suspect you're wrong.

But I will put into the mix that younger voters overwhelmingly want to remain. So even if we leave there's a chance we'll be going back....

[Strokes]

23 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Bearing in mind that we have only 4% unemployment (with the usual caveats around incap that I always add), we'd be in a right mess of all the EU citizens left wouldn't we? Have you used a hospital lately? You can't go through without being treated by EU citizens.

 

Stop further property grabs by landlords, build council housing, allow right to buy to continue but allow the money to be used to build more housing. Tax the **** out of those that buy properties without anybody living in them.

I’ve never said we need less immigrants, ever.

Ive just said we need controls so we know who is coming. Under the current system we stop skilled people coming here from non EU countries so we can massage figures for less skilled EU migrants. How is that beneficial?

 

 

 

for continuation tomorrow.

[Strokes]

13 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Aside from building more houses and taking steps to limit the number of people hoarding houses:

 

I think non UK residents should have to have a compelling reason why they need to own UK residential property and I think most wouldn’t have one. We’ve got people from abroad buying up residential property in London with no intention of ever living in it or even of renting it out. Put a stop to that.

 

There are actually many areas where houses are not that expensive, but those areas have no jobs, shit schools and bad transport infrastructure - invest in revitalising those areas or improve the transport infrastructure so people can live there but work elsewhere.

 

Playing the long game, pushing towards a future where fewer people have to go to a fixed workplace everyday could help, as again that would open up cheaper areas as a viable place for people to live while still having a career.

 

Most of it requires investment, of course. Not many good things have ever been done for free.

 

 

I don’t disagree with most of that but I don’t think we are going to be in a place where fewer people have a fixed workplace anytime soon. Not whilst you’re employing more house builders, road and rail builders. All construction requires people to move from site to site.

Edited 28 January 2018 by Strokes

[Rogstanley]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

I don’t disagree with most of that but I don’t think we are going to be in a place where fewer people have a fixed workplace anytime soon. Not whilst your employing more house builders, road and rail builders. All construction requires people to move from site to site.

I was thinking office workers mainly. I don’t have any stats but I bet quite a high percentage of people who work in big cities either work in an office themselves or in some sort of associated role. But yeah, that’s the long game and by the time it comes to fruition the world will probably be a totally different place.

[Strokes]

30 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

I was thinking office workers mainly. I don’t have any stats but I bet quite a high percentage of people who work in big cities either work in an office themselves or in some sort of associated role. But yeah, that’s the long game and by the time it comes to fruition the world will probably be a totally different place.

Hopefully it will be normal for office workers to work from home soon, with all the technology around these days is their really any need for them to have a commute other than productivity?

Maybe the government should force office workers to get paid for travel time to shove it along a bit?

Edited 29 January 2018 by Strokes

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Hopefully it will be normal for office workers to work from home soon, with all the technology around these days is their really any need for them to have a commute other than productivity?

Maybe the government should force office workers to get paid for travel time to shove it along a bit?

We agree on something stroksey-wokesy!

[Rogstanley]

Carrillion stopped paying workers pensions in order to safeguard bosses bonuses and golden handshakes

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42853895

 

Blatant disregard for ordinary people is clearly endemic across the whole country now. Those at the top simply do not give a shit and will happily screw anyone over to keep their fat pay checks rolling in. And the bastard Tories cosy up to these scum, giving them tax cuts and incentives, such that they’re now raking in all time record profits while living standards for ordinary people are plummeting at the worst rate since the mid 1800’s. 

 

As we get up on another Monday morning for another week at the grindstone in service to some born-into-privilege CEO who doesn’t know our name nor give a shit about us, how much longer can society operate in this manner? How much worse will Tory boys allow things to get before even they say enough’s enough?

[Buce]

9 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Carrillion stopped paying workers pensions in order to safeguard bosses bonuses and golden handshakes

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42853895

 

Blatant disregard for ordinary people is clearly endemic across the whole country now. Those at the top simply do not give a shit and will happily screw anyone over to keep their fat pay checks rolling in. And the bastard Tories cosy up to these scum, giving them tax cuts and incentives, such that they’re now raking in all time record profits while living standards for ordinary people are plummeting at the worst rate since the mid 1800’s. 

 

As we get up on another Monday morning for another week at the grindstone in service to some born-into-privilege CEO who doesn’t know our name nor give a shit about us, how much longer can society operate in this manner? How much worse will Tory boys allow things to get before even they say enough’s enough?

 

I think we both know the answer to that, mate.

[foxinexile]

7 hours ago, Strokes said:

I’ve never said we need less immigrants, ever.

Ive just said we need controls so we know who is coming. Under the current system we stop skilled people coming here from non EU countries so we can massage figures for less skilled EU migrants. How is that beneficial?

 

 

 

for continuation tomorrow.

EU citizens who come to the UK to find work can't claim JSA during the first three months they're here. After that they can claim for a total of 91 days, though they can continue claiming after that length if they can demonstrate that they're actively looking for a job and likely to get it. After a total of six months in the UK they can be removed if they still haven't found a job and have no realistic possibility of finding one. There is no trigger which allows them to keep claiming benefits.

 

This has been in place since 2014, so whilst we've not had control over the number of EU citizens who can come to the UK, we have had control over the number who can stay, but have chosen not to implement it for whatever reason. 

 

Could you post the figures for the number of EU citizens who have stopped skilled people coming from non-EU countries? What date range are you quoting?

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, foxinexile said:

EU citizens who come to the UK to find work can't claim JSA during the first three months they're here. After that they can claim for a total of 91 days, though they can continue claiming after that length if they can demonstrate that they're actively looking for a job and likely to get it. After a total of six months in the UK they can be removed if they still haven't found a job and have no realistic possibility of finding one. There is no trigger which allows them to keep claiming benefits.

 

This has been in place since 2014, so whilst we've not had control over the number of EU citizens who can come to the UK, we have had control over the number who can stay, but have chosen not to implement it for whatever reason. 

 

Could you post the figures for the number of EU citizens who have stopped skilled people coming from non-EU countries? What date range are you quoting?

Hi there. No, I’ve got better things to do thank you.

None of this is relevant to the point I was making, which extends from another thread.

Cheers.

[Strokes]

21 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Carrillion stopped paying workers pensions in order to safeguard bosses bonuses and golden handshakes

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42853895

 

Blatant disregard for ordinary people is clearly endemic across the whole country now. Those at the top simply do not give a shit and will happily screw anyone over to keep their fat pay checks rolling in. And the bastard Tories cosy up to these scum, giving them tax cuts and incentives, such that they’re now raking in all time record profits while living standards for ordinary people are plummeting at the worst rate since the mid 1800’s. 

 

As we get up on another Monday morning for another week at the grindstone in service to some born-into-privilege CEO who doesn’t know our name nor give a shit about us, how much longer can society operate in this manner? How much worse will Tory boys allow things to get before even they say enough’s enough?

 

10 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I think we both know the answer to that, mate.

A bit rich when labour bailed out the banks, after reckless behaviour and ordinary citizens were losing their homes. 

[foxinexile]

3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Hi there. No, I’ve got better things to do thank you.

None of this is relevant to the point I was making, which extends from another thread.

Cheers.

So it's just your personal opinion that EU citizens have stopped skilled non-EU citizens from coming to the UK? No figures to support that? Fair enough.

[Buce]

5 minutes ago, Strokes said:

 

A bit rich when labour bailed out the banks, after reckless behaviour and ordinary citizens were losing their homes. 

 

I have never sought to justify that, Strokes, it was a bloody disgrace. It's worth remembering that the Tories supported it, though.

 

However, past indescretions by Labour don't give the Tories a free pass (you know, two wrongs etc).

[Strokes]

23 minutes ago, foxinexile said:

So it's just your personal opinion that EU citizens have stopped skilled non-EU citizens from coming to the UK? No figures to support that? Fair enough.

Whatever mate, I’ve not got time to play this morning.

[Buce]

 

Brexit risks higher energy bills and shortages:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jan/29/brexit-risks-energy-shortages-and-bigger-bills-peers-warn

 

That's ok - we'll be free to buy our energy from anywhere in the world...

[Strokes]

16 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I have never sought to justify that, Strokes, it was a bloody disgrace. It's worth remembering that the Tories supported it, though.

 

However, past indescretions by Labour don't give the Tories a free pass (you know, two wrongs etc).

All governments seem to get mixed up in sleazy business propping up, it isn’t something I agree with at all.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Strokes said:

All governments seem to get mixed up in sleazy business propping up, it isn’t something I agree with at all.

So then you agree with Rog's post?

[Rogstanley]

1 hour ago, foxinexile said:

EU citizens who come to the UK to find work can't claim JSA during the first three months they're here. After that they can claim for a total of 91 days, though they can continue claiming after that length if they can demonstrate that they're actively looking for a job and likely to get it. After a total of six months in the UK they can be removed if they still haven't found a job and have no realistic possibility of finding one. There is no trigger which allows them to keep claiming benefits.

 

This has been in place since 2014, so whilst we've not had control over the number of EU citizens who can come to the UK, we have had control over the number who can stay, but have chosen not to implement it for whatever reason. 

 

Could you post the figures for the number of EU citizens who have stopped skilled people coming from non-EU countries? What date range are you quoting?

Get out of here with your facts.

[Strokes]

23 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Get out of here with your facts.

How is it relevant to the point that migration increases demand for houses thus pushing up prices? I see rather than contest it you guys would rather twist the argument onto something that I’ve not even said.

 

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, foxinexile said:

So it's just your personal opinion that EU citizens have stopped skilled non-EU citizens from coming to the UK? No figures to support that? Fair enough.

http://www.cityam.com/221014/over-1300-skilled-visa-applications-were-rejected-home-office-june