Webbo Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 These are the same experts who told us we'd be in recession now. Even in their worse case scenario its 8% over 15 years, around 0.5% a year. We all accepted we might be slightly worse off in return for our freedom.
Guest MattP Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 2 minutes ago, Buce said: There's a reason these reports are being kept secret, Matt, and the forecasts are coming from a wide range of sources. The Brexiteers have a vested interest in being in denial because it undermine's everything they voted for, though to be fair to you personally, you have always stated that you're prepared to take an economic hit in order to 'take back control' (whatever that actually means). Who? As for the second point, definitely. One thing very few from the remain side seem to understand is leavers value these things over economics, taking back control (what a political slogan BTW, whoever came up with it is a genius) means different things to different people, for me it means our courts having full sway and no jurisdiction of the ECJ over my country and our own government being able to negotiate trade deals, for others it will be border control, for some it might be more simplistic and come down to something you'll consider basic, for some it might be more complex and come down to external tariffs. No one's opinion is valued more or less because of it. It's not exactly a new thing either, many countries have done it, the colonies on the East coast were prepared to take a financial hit when Sam Adams stood in front of his people and roused them into throwing tea off the side of the BEI ships, they knew that was going to be a cost but they did it because they saw the action as something that would achieve a greater good long term, that's exactly how I feel about this - our trade with the EU is getting smaller every year and will continue to get smaller as global economic growth continues to spread from this part of the World to places like India, China and Brazil. I wish there would be more debate about this and those from the other side would try and explain why they believe our economic interest should be above remaining a fully independent nation, but rather than do this they often create caricatures in their heads of what they want us to be i.e blue passport wanting, bigots who want to run around singing Rule Britannia. It's become a horrible, horrible argument that has stalled our parliament doing anything, created division in society and left the possibility of an extremist Labour government coming to power, like KingGTF I'm almost at the point where I wish it hadn't happened.
Popular Post Vacamion Posted 30 January 2018 Popular Post Posted 30 January 2018 6 minutes ago, Webbo said: These are the same experts who told us we'd be in recession now. Even in their worse case scenario its 8% over 15 years, around 0.5% a year. We all accepted we might be slightly worse off in return for our freedom. "our freedom" I remember having to work down the baguette mine all day before reporting to the Bürgermeister for permission to drink beer in pints. They were tough days, the 90s. I can almost hear Labi Siffre's "Something inside so strong" playing in the background... And that's before we get to the bit where Billions of Pounds go down the gurgler. 4 2
Strokes Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 I don’t give two shits if we are worse off outside the EU. We’ve hardly been prosperous whilst in it, as you guys keep telling us. 1
Jimothy Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 46 minutes ago, MattP said: I think Ken got stick for posting non stop links to the Canary and claiming the Tory government had killed millions of disabled people, I think there was actually quite wide reaching agreement that the welfare system wasn't fit for purpose. Although you clearly didn't read the article, it doesn't claim what Rog says at all, it says they are reviewing cases and it "could" cost upto that amount, another prediction I'd take with a pinch of salt. If it happens then by all means come on crowing, but until then I'll hold fire. Firstly, did I mention the cost? No I didn't. Secondly, who cares where Ken got the stories as surely the fact all the cases are being looked at again shows what he posted held some weight. Thirdly I don't think he ever claimed millions had died, just some have, and others have had their lives devasted by this badly run system. I don't care who's in government, this is peoples lives, it's not good enough.
Webbo Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 2 minutes ago, Vacamion said: "our freedom" I remember having to work down the baguette mine all day before reporting to the Bürgermeister for permission to drink beer in pints. They were tough days, the 90s. I can almost hear Labi Siffre's "Something inside so strong" playing in the background... And that's before we get to the bit where Billions of Pounds go down the gurgler. It means our govt doing what we tell them to do rather than unelected bureaucrats. BTW we're not going to be worse off, we're according to this, going to be less well off. The economy will still grow.
Jimothy Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 4 minutes ago, Webbo said: It means our govt doing what we tell them to do rather than unelected bureaucrats. BTW we're not going to be worse off, we're according to this, going to be less well off. The economy will still grow. Yeah like the time we were forced to join the euro..... Oh wait. Or that time we were forced to pay immigrants benefits when we wanted them to wait 3 months.....Oh wait. Or that time they made us join Schengen........Oh hang on. Or that time we didn't want to paynchild benefit for kids not living in the UK......Oh no hang again. 3
Webbo Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 3 minutes ago, Facecloth said: Yeah like the time we were forced to join the euro..... Oh wait. Or that time we were forced to pay immigrants benefits when we wanted them to wait 3 months.....Oh wait. Or that time they made us join Schengen........Oh hang on. Or that time we didn't want to paynchild benefit for kids not living in the UK......Oh no hang again. The time we wanted to control immigration. What we ought to have is a referendum to decide if we want to leave, oh hang on.
Guest MattP Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 11 minutes ago, Facecloth said: Firstly, did I mention the cost? No I didn't. Secondly, who cares where Ken got the stories as surely the fact all the cases are being looked at again shows what he posted held some weight. Thirdly I don't think he ever claimed millions had died, just some have, and others have had their lives devasted by this badly run system. I don't care who's in government, this is peoples lives, it's not good enough. You quoted the post which claimed the cost. Ken posted about 50 stories a day about disabled people at the time, a couple were bound to be right. Although given you campaigned for a Labour government a few months ago I'd hold off on demanding apologies off others. You are actively trying to put extremists like Abbott, Corbyn and McDonnell into power to implement tried and failed polices that would ruin the nation, get your way and you'll be making plenty of apologies to people in the future.
Jimothy Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 1 minute ago, MattP said: You quoted the post which claimed the cost. Ken posted about 50 stories a day about disabled people at the time, a couple were bound to be right. Although given you campaigned for a Labour government a few months ago I'd hold off on demanding apologies off others. You are actively trying to put extremists like Abbott, Corbyn and McDonnell into power to implement tried and failed polices that would ruin the nation, get your way and you'll be making plenty of apologies to people in the future. Yeah great whataboutism mate, turning the subject away from the issue at hand. The article mentioned the cost, it also mentions reassessing millions of people. It's ok to admit you wrong every now and then you know. The tories have ****ed this up, just take it like a man, and apologies to Ken for all the grief you gave him.
Buce Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 Just now, MattP said: You quoted the post which claimed the cost. Ken posted about 50 stories a day about disabled people at the time, a couple were bound to be right. Although given you campaigned for a Labour government a few months ago I'd hold off on demanding apologies off others. You are actively trying to put extremists like Abbott, Corbyn and McDonnell into power to implement tried and failed polices that would ruin the nation, get your way and you'll be making plenty of apologies to people in the future. So it's speculation when the Treasury say Brexit is going to create economic catasrophe, but a fait accompli that Labour's policies will? Classic.
Jimothy Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Webbo said: The time we wanted to control immigration. What we ought to have is a referendum to decide if we want to leave, oh hang on. You mean like we always had the power to do but never exercised. Or like how we control non eu immigration.... Oh no we don't do we. Edited 30 January 2018 by Facecloth 1
Buce Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 21 minutes ago, Strokes said: I don’t give two shits if we are worse off outside the EU. We’ve hardly been prosperous whilst in it, as you guys keep telling us. Equal to, "I don't care if I lose my sight, I'm already blind in one eye". How's that for sheer bloody mindedness. 1
Guest MattP Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 (edited) On 28/01/2018 at 11:20, Alf Bentley said: Marr did ask about past media earnings. He said it was a long time ago, that he raised human rights and quit when Iran took action against the Iranian Green Party, as I recall. I see The Spectator is already pointing out that he received some payment in 2012, though, so I'm sure you won't be happy. I'm a bit more sympathetic to him than you are, obviously, but I thought he came across well. He sometimes gets flustered by difficult questions, but seemed relaxed and confident this time. Finally got around to watching this, his transformation into smooth politician is complete, the big fibber Took money from Iran (a long time ago apparantly) in 2012, stopped because of the treatment of the Greens ( happened in 2009!) and apparantly raised human rights issues (I've found one of his videos and it was never mentioned) - hopefully his office can put this to bed by clarifying when he did it and showing us, won't hold my breath though! Let's sing his praises and give some credit though, he explained the parties position on Brexit far better than Keir Starmer ever has, he respects the result of the referendum and says any chance of revisiting the vote is sailed and made it clear they won't be staying in the single market or the customs union (although he says we could stay in "a customs union") Only thing he really needs to explain now is what he means by "easy movement" and what "a customs union" he envisages could be and we are about there with what Labour want from Brexit. Credit where credit is due, great to see them moving towards a more solid position. Edited 30 January 2018 by MattP
Strokes Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 12 minutes ago, Buce said: Equal to, "I don't care if I lose my sight, I'm already blind in one eye". How's that for sheer bloody mindedness. Well not really, even if the report predicting the future that can never be proved either is correct. We are only down 0.5% a year, in an economy that only serves the very wealthy how much do you and lose exactly? Apparently we’ve been losing money for years whilst the rich dine out on our sweat and tears, so what is changing here?
Izzy Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 Just listening to the Nicky Campbell phone in on Brexit on 5 live now. I think the problem with it all is that we let stupid people vote. There should be some sort of test people have to take before they’re allowed to vote. Idiots, idiots everywhere.... 1
fuchsntf Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 12 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: Just listening to the Nicky Campbell phone in on Brexit on 5 live now. I think the problem with it all is that we let stupid people vote. There should be some sort of test people have to take before they’re allowed to vote. Idiots, idiots everywhere.... Thats everyone fked, !! Experts took tests, looked where that got us!!! You and I took tests...brilliant for joke threads. Idiots!!! Yup we should all stand up and be proud. Because the so called sane, meeting experts, now thats been a Total success..!!! Innit!!
Alf Bentley Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 54 minutes ago, MattP said: Finally got around to watching this, his transformation into smooth politician is complete, the big fibber Took money from Iran (a long time ago apparantly) in 2012, stopped because of the treatment of the Greens ( happened in 2009!) and apparantly raised human rights issues (I've found one of his videos and it was never mentioned) - hopefully his office can put this to bed by clarifying when he did it and showing us, won't hold my breath though! Let's sing his praises and give some credit though, he explained the parties position on Brexit far better than Keir Starmer ever has, he respects the result of the referendum and says any chance of revisiting the vote is sailed and made it clear they won't be staying in the single market or the customs union (although he says we could stay in "a customs union") Only thing he really needs to explain now is what he means by "easy movement" and what "a customs union" he envisages could be and we are about there with what Labour want from Brexit. Credit where credit is due, great to see them moving towards a more solid position. Interesting to see him declaring, with determination and confidence, that he intended to win power and lead a Labour Govt. Par for the course with opposition leaders, but I genuinely don't think the idea had crossed his mind when he first stood for leader. His thinking has been transformed in that regard. That's a good thing. It means the Labour leadership will be thinking more about which policies they should be espousing before any election and which they should implement if ever elected. Not just reciting a lefty dream list. From the many spending promises and nationalisation policies, they need to work out which are the priorities, how they're going to fund them and how many they can implement without crashing the economy. That will not only improve their chances of getting elected and then not ruining Labour's reputation for a generation, but it will be good for the British economy/society. We do now have a competent opposition and credible alternative govt. 1
Vacamion Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 Experts? Pah!! They didn’t analyse the scenario where the Europeans utterly cave in to all our demands because we buy German cars and French wine, and so they let us keep the current benefits of the single market with none of the costs to pay and any rules we don’t like can be ignored. Where’s THAT analysis, eh? When it comes to these so called “experts”, we should 1
Alf Bentley Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 24 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: Just listening to the Nicky Campbell phone in on Brexit on 5 live now. I think the problem with it all is that we let stupid people vote. There should be some sort of test people have to take before they’re allowed to vote. Idiots, idiots everywhere.... Exactly what my mother used to say. Problem is she was one of the people I'd have banned from voting (even if she was often on the same side as me)! Not that she was a stupid idiot, just very kneejerk....She did come from Yorkshire, though, so probably couldn't be helped... 1
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 4 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: That's a good thing. It means the Labour leadership will be thinking more about which policies they should be espousing before any election and which they should implement if ever elected. Not just reciting a lefty dream list. From the many spending promises and nationalisation policies, they need to work out which are the priorities, how they're going to fund them and how many they can implement without crashing the economy. That will not only improve their chances of getting elected and then not ruining Labour's reputation for a generation, but it will be good for the British economy/society. We do now have a competent opposition and credible alternative govt. If that could ever happen then fair play. I am happy to see reasonable fully funded policies based on what is likely to happen in terms of tax revenues, not what they would like to happen based on everyone paying the tax they think they will for a number of years. I personally would also like Labour to be more honest tell us we are ALL going to pay more tax which will happen. Be honest say we need to pay more tax for better public services and let the public decided on the basis of truth not make it a class war. To be honest with horrible cretins like Seamus Milne and Momentum running the show behind the scenes I am struggling to see how the Labour party manifesto could ever be anything but a 'lefty dream list'.
Alf Bentley Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 2 minutes ago, Vacamion said: Experts? Pah!! They didn’t analyse the scenario where the Europeans utterly cave in to all our demands because we buy German cars and French wine, and so they let us keep the current benefits of the single market with none of the costs to pay and any rules we don’t like can be ignored. Haven't heard those arguments about German cars, French wine and Italian Prosecco recently.... Since May capitulated on almost everything in Phase I, we've not heard arguments about us being in much the stronger negotiating position, either. Yesterday, I heard a Tory Brexiteer accuse the EU of "bullying us" through their proposals for the transition deal. How can they be bullying us when we're supposedly in much the stronger position and "they need us more than we need them", what with our imports being higher than our exports and all...
Vacamion Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 Just now, Alf Bentley said: Haven't heard those arguments about German cars, French wine and Italian Prosecco recently.... Since May capitulated on almost everything in Phase I, we've not heard arguments about us being in much the stronger negotiating position, either. Yesterday, I heard a Tory Brexiteer accuse the EU of "bullying us" through their proposals for the transition deal. How can they be bullying us when we're supposedly in much the stronger position and "they need us more than we need them", what with our imports being higher than our exports and all... Maybe I should have been sillier. I was mocking the points I made...
Alf Bentley Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 1 minute ago, Vacamion said: Maybe I should have been sillier. I was mocking the points I made... I did appreciate that, mate. I was just joining in the (barbed) silliness! 1
Izzy Posted 30 January 2018 Posted 30 January 2018 19 minutes ago, fuchsntf said: Thats everyone fked, !! Experts took tests, looked where that got us!!! You and I took tests...brilliant for joke threads. Idiots!!! Yup we should all stand up and be proud. Because the so called sane, meeting experts, now thats been a Total success..!!! Innit!! I’ve been an idiot for as long as I can remember but some of these callers on the Brexit phone in on the wireless today were way more idiot than me. And we let these people have kids and drive cars and everything. And then we let them vote to determine the future of our country! Incredible... 1
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