Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

After tax that's £1,415. After rent that is £815. After commuting/car finance costs that is £680. After council tax that is £565. After utilities that is £415. After TV licence that is £400. After food that is £200. 

 

£50 a week for 40 hours hard graft, they'll be beating your door down!

Do you need to pay £600 a month rent on a single income? I think you could get a better deal tbh.

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Tbf the tories have raised the tax free allowance by £6000, that’s £24 a week and £100 a month. It’s not terrible by any means.

 

No, it's not terrible, but presumably, tax credits have fallen as income has risen? And it still only equates to a rise of £3 a week per year at a time when wages are largely stagnant.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Just now, Strokes said:

Do you need to pay £600 a month rent on a single income? I think you could get a better deal tbh.

 

Guess you haven't rented for a while.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

Man, I worked for 50p an hour when I left school - it's not relevant nor does it make it right.

 

I don't live a lavish lifestyle but I'd struggle to support my family on £10 an hour; what's that - about £1,300 a month after tax and NI?

I was able to live just fine then for £3 an hour, had a shared house, heated, fed, clean not sure what else was required.

 

Obviously there are many scenarios to determine, most families now probably have 2 working adults. In work benefits which I don't agree with. I agree business should pay a fair wage, I am just wondering how we arrive at a figure of £10 a hour? If £10 a hour is what is required then do we accept that some business may need to reduce staff to pay that? 

 

I don't agree with the cost of housing being as high as it is but that's what happens when we don't build enough house for about 40 years whilst allowing unparalleled immigration of c.10 million. Now again I don't necessarily think immigration is bad but to allow unlimited numbers without sufficiently increasing infrastructure is daft. Moving the immigrants to deprived communities with no jobs and no idea how to get them jobs is daft. These are things that happened under Labour. For all the money they spent, the infrastructure investment during that period was not successful in delivering for the population. 

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

No, it's not terrible, but presumably, tax credits have fallen as income has risen? And it still only equates to a rise of £3 a week per year at a time when wages are largely stagnant.

I’m not claiming it’s brilliant by any means but they have also increase minimum wage by a fair whack, I’ve been there, it’s not great and won’t be no matter who is running the country. 

[Buce]

6 minutes ago, MattP said:

So for some that's upto a £100 a month, believe me if you are among the lowest paid that comes in pretty handy.

 

Yeah, any increase is welcome, of course.

 

But given increased rental costs it isn't exactly funding the high-life.

 

5 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

After tax that's £1,415. After rent that is £815. After commuting/car finance costs that is £680. After council tax that is £565. After utilities that is £415. After TV licence that is £400. After food that is £200. 

 

£50 a week for 40 hours hard graft, they'll be beating your door down!

 

You forgot your 9% NI deductions.

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

 

Guess you haven't rented for a while.

I sold my house recently and I’ve just signed a contract on a 3 bed south leicester for £700 a month. I assume it goes down significantly if you lose space but I wouldn’t claim to be knowledgeable no.

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I’m not claiming it’s brilliant by any means but they have also increase minimum wage by a fair whack, I’ve been there, it’s not great and won’t be no matter who is running the country. 

2

 

Me too, mate - being a wage slave sucks.

 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

7 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

After tax that's £1,415. After rent that is £815. After commuting/car finance costs that is £680. After council tax that is £565. After utilities that is £415. After TV licence that is £400. After food that is £200. 

 

£50 a week for 40 hours hard graft, they'll be beating your door down!

Depends where they are renting? Where my business is housing is considerably cheaper than many areas granted. 

 

They don't need car finance. I have ran a second hard few hundred quid car for next to nothing for years, I am willing to offer them advice on living frugally. Its again a strange belief that we 'need' a brand new car and phone to 'live'. 

 

Stay on top of the food and utilities bills I would say too, if its cold put a jumper on. Turn the thermos down a few degrees, make sure lights are off if your not in a room.

 

They work hard, we do well they get a good bonus. 

 

For example this year every employee received over 1k in April. 

[Strokes]

7 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

 

Guess you haven't rented for a while.

I’ve just had a look and yeah, I was wrong. You can find cheaper examples but I doubt it’s worth moving for £25 a month saving. So I apologise.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

7 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I’m not claiming it’s brilliant by any means but they have also increase minimum wage by a fair whack, I’ve been there, it’s not great and won’t be no matter who is running the country. 

Also as everyone's wages rise cost of living rises anyway. So in some ways its better to try and keep a bit of a lid on it. 

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Depends where they are renting? Where my business is housing is considerably cheaper than many areas granted. 

 

They don't need car finance. I have ran a second hard few hundred quid car for next to nothing for years, I am willing to offer them advice on living frugally. Its again a strange belief that we 'need' a brand new car and phone to 'live'. 

 

Stay on top of the food and utilities bills I would say too, if its cold put a jumper on. Turn the thermos down a few degrees, make sure lights are off if your not in a room.

 

They work hard, we do well they get a good bonus. 

 

For example this year every employee received over 1k in April. 

Can I get a spring job with you next year? March to April? 

[Bobby Hundreds]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

I’ve just had a look and yeah, I was wrong. You can find cheaper examples but I doubt it’s worth moving for £25 a month saving. So I apologise.

No need to apologise. Housing costs are the biggest wage killer at the minute, my parents had to save and be frugal to afford their house but it's not even comparable now, it's way out of whack. Generation rent really are screwed, there's no way you can rent on a low-middle income and save up a £20,000 deposit.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, MattP said:

What sort of income do you mean by lower? 

 

The threshold for taking the lowest paid out of the tax bracket altogether has been some of the most successful coalition/Tory policy I can remember. I only wish they could raise it even further.

But coupled with losses to in work benefits the poorest are worse off according to all independent analysis.

All independent analysis also shows that cuts have hit the poorest the hardest.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

Can I get a spring job with you next year? March to April? 

Have to have a fully years graft to be eligible.  Of course if March was an exceptional month we always consider merit payments at discretion. 

 

If I am in a position where we are turning 100k a week and the staff are grafting, they will be rewarded. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Depends where they are renting? Where my business is housing is considerably cheaper than many areas granted. 

 

They don't need car finance. I have ran a second hard few hundred quid car for next to nothing for years, I am willing to offer them advice on living frugally. Its again a strange belief that we 'need' a brand new car and phone to 'live'. 

 

Stay on top of the food and utilities bills I would say too, if its cold put a jumper on. Turn the thermos down a few degrees, make sure lights are off if your not in a room.

 

They work hard, we do well they get a good bonus. 

 

For example this year every employee received over 1k in April. 

He only took off £135 for car costs. That wouldn't even cover petrol, let alone finance.

 

Also only £200 a month for food and toiletries etc so presumably they all live alone.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Just now, toddybad said:

He only took off £135 for car costs. That wouldn't even cover petrol, let alone finance.

 

Also only £200 a month for food and toiletries etc so presumably they all live alone.

I was being frugal. I mean, a week's bus fare would be £20  

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

No need to apologise. Housing costs are the biggest wage killer at the minute, my parents had to save and be frugal to afford their house but it's not even comparable now, it's way out of whack. Generation rent really are screwed, there's no way you can rent on a low-middle income and save up a £20,000 deposit.

It's why the policy of a huge council housing programme is the only answer I can see to the crisis.

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said:

Depends where they are renting? Where my business is housing is considerably cheaper than many areas granted. 

 

They don't need car finance. I have ran a second hard few hundred quid car for next to nothing for years, I am willing to offer them advice on living frugally. Its again a strange belief that we 'need' a brand new car and phone to 'live'. 

 

Stay on top of the food and utilities bills I would say too, if its cold put a jumper on. Turn the thermos down a few degrees, make sure lights are off if your not in a room.

 

They work hard, we do well they get a good bonus. 

 

For example this year every employee received over 1k in April. 

I certainly don't know anyone who sees a brand new car as a necessity, but you're in cloud cuckoo land if you don't think you need a phone, or at least a device with internet access, to get along in life these days.

 

It almost seems like you want people to have to lead a bit of a shit life on poor wages because you had to once. Big fvcking deal, plenty of us have had to struggle and live frugally for one reason or another at some point in our lives, but I've no desire to see others have to do so too.

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

No need to apologise. Housing costs are the biggest wage killer at the minute, my parents had to save and be frugal to afford their house but it's not even comparable now, it's way out of whack. Generation rent really are screwed, there's no way you can rent on a low-middle income and save up a £20,000 deposit.

I agree it’s crazy, I know rent is going to be a bit higher than mortgage repayments but it’s crazy how much extra they are. We were paying £385 a month so have actually nearly doubled what we are paying out. It’s only temporary though fortunately.

[Guest]

Just now, Bobby Hundreds said:

I was being frugal. I mean, a week's bus fare would be £20  

I know. I live in my own and take home a decent enough amount but if you consider there's still a raft of things you didn't cost - insurance, mobile phone, tv costs - okay tv and mobile are optional extras but if you work full time surely you deserve some limited optimal extras?

[Guest Foxin_mad]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

But coupled with losses to in work benefits the poorest are worse off according to all independent analysis.

All independent analysis also shows that cuts have hit the poorest the hardest.

Getting people off in work benefits I feel is a multi stage process. They shouldn't really be necessary, the fact that Labour found it necessary to introduce them at a time we were supposedly booming was odd IMO.

 

My view is the best way to help the poor is to enable them to support themselves and develop. 

 

Its possible that as there is lack of supply for a workforce wages may naturally have to rise anyway, which is why stopping the flow of cheap unskilled labour from former soviet countries in the EU can be no bad thing. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Foxin_mad said:

Getting people off in work benefits I feel is a multi stage process. They shouldn't really be necessary, the fact that Labour found it necessary to introduce them at a time we were supposedly booming was odd IMO.

 

My view is the best way to help the poor is to enable them to support themselves and develop. 

 

Its possible that as there is lack of supply for a workforce wages may naturally have to rise anyway, which is why stopping the flow of cheap unskilled labour from former soviet countries in the EU can be no bad thing. 

You're right, labour should have forced booming business to pay even more - but they did introduce the minimum wage despite the same calls from the right about businesses going under that we hear today.

[Bobby Hundreds]

5 minutes ago, toddybad said:

I know. I live in my own and take home a decent enough amount but if you consider there's still a raft of things you didn't cost - insurance, mobile phone, tv costs - okay tv and mobile are optional extras but if you work full time surely you deserve some limited optimal extras?

 

God forbid someone prices that up as a single parent  

[Guest Foxin_mad]

11 minutes ago, toddybad said:

You're right, labour should have forced booming business to pay even more - but they did introduce the minimum wage despite the same calls from the right about businesses going under that we hear today.

They should have paid whatever the fair wage was at the time instead of taxing and handing out a bizarre benefit. Its like taking with one hand and giving back with the other, it s a costly bureaucratic mess. I am happy for a fair discussion on what a living wage actually is.

 

The result might be that some people get  a living wage, others lose their job. I would say that is pretty much a given.

 

Of course again I would argue a higher wage isn't the solution here, making somethings cheaper is, particularly housing is. 

 

House prices rose over 300% in some areas between 97-2010. There was no coherent building plan during those years and 10 million new people entering the country. What exactly did we think the impact would be? 

Edited 2 May 2018 by Foxin_mad