Technology, Science and the Environment.

[Sampson]

Just saw this, was a good video summarising it. Does feel like this could genuinely be the beginning of proof of life on other planets.
 

I think we find life on other planets through a series of press conferences rather than a “great contact moment”.

Edited 22 September 2025 by Sampson

[blabyboy]

27 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Just saw this, was a good video summarising it. Does feel like this could genuinely be the beginning of proof of life on other planets.
 

I think we find life on other planets through a series of press conferences rather than a “great contact moment”.

Ordinarily I'd agree with you. But for the next 3.5 years I would not be surprised if a certain president attempted to make the 'official' announcement to ensure immortality in history.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy7pegvz17yo

 

Nasa has said it hopes to send astronauts on a ten-day trip around the Moon as soon as February.

The US space agency had previously committed to launching no later than the end of April but said it aims to bring the mission forward.

It's been 50 years since any country has flown a crewed lunar mission. Nasa will send four astronauts there and back to test systems.

The Artemis II mission is the second launch of the Artemis programme, whose aim is to land astronauts and eventually establish a long-term presence on the lunar surface.

 

Finally, some good news.

[Trav Le Bleu]

On 23/09/2025 at 20:42, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy7pegvz17yo

 

Nasa has said it hopes to send astronauts on a ten-day trip around the Moon as soon as February.

The US space agency had previously committed to launching no later than the end of April but said it aims to bring the mission forward.

It's been 50 years since any country has flown a crewed lunar mission. Nasa will send four astronauts there and back to test systems.

The Artemis II mission is the second launch of the Artemis programme, whose aim is to land astronauts and eventually establish a long-term presence on the lunar surface.

 

Finally, some good news.

Is it though?

 

Billions spent on giving 4 people a jolly, when the Earth is burning, people are dying of starvation and treatable diseases and cancer claims so many lives?

 

Ok, so obviously there will be scientific knowledge acquired, but it will be minimal benefit compared to any Earthbound research into the problems I mentioned above.

 

Screw space travel.

[Trav Le Bleu]

On 22/09/2025 at 21:52, blabyboy said:

Ordinarily I'd agree with you. But for the next 3.5 years I would not be surprised if a certain president attempted to make the 'official' announcement to ensure immortality in history.

"And I have spoke with their leader, I have, and, you know, I'm good with languages, so good, probably the best, so I said, "Bloop bleep bloo bloo blopblee blep bloo," which I can tell you means, "By all means visit, but there will be a 50% tariff on all plasteel and hypersilicates."

 

"It went very well, no it was the best. They're lovely people, a lot like my wife, you know... From somewhere else, but they're ok. So I have officially invited Mr... I believe he's a Mr, there's no transgender with these guys and I have been reliably informed by top scientists that they are hermaphrodites, just like me and you..."

 

"So Mr Xzcakmagha, I said to him, he, sir, very masculine, big muscles, large mandibles... I challenged him to an arm wrestle, but he just laughed, yeah, we laughed together... very funny man, hilarious in fact, and definitely male... So I said, Mr Zach, that's what I call him, the patriarch, man-thing, it's much easier y'know. The real name, it's such a mouthful... or a mandibleful, well I told him that they should come and see the best of Earth, Washington DC, home of freedom and liberty, come and see the greatest nation of Earth!"

 

"And so they have moved into the White House, in fact Zachy... he's now in the Oval Office sat right at my beautiful desk. Due to our blessed second amendment, written in ink, indelible ink, so it's there forever and penned by our glorious forefathers... not quite so glorious as the present leader, but they were pretty good... well, God bless America, where we have the right to do as we please and we can bear arms wherever and whenever, so of course we let them keep their gamma pistols and blaster rifles."

 

"It was the right thing to do, I believe that... I'm sure everyone agrees with me as usual... Except maybe JD... Not himself... I say that, I know more than most about humanity, I'm a great humanitarian... I suspect JD might not be human anymore... Green puss seeping out his ears, very nasty... I said to the surgeon general, 'that's not normal' and he agreed, he always does... I talk a lot of sense and the scientific community, they appreciate that. I respect them and they respect me."

 

"So JD, I'd just like to say, publicly, in front of everyone, I'll hold my hand up, it was either you or me and it's clear the sacrifice that I have made, given the choice to remain human, I humbly, as the most modest man ever... I'm so modest... have I mentioned my humility?...  humbly stood aside so that JD could transcend to the next plane as the mindworm slithered up his nostril... all five of them... that's mindworms, not nostrils."

 

"JD... is a great man... being... thing... I wish I could have been there, but I have very important work, such important work, I'm very important. On JD's behalf I have talked to my good friends, Vladimir and Benjamin, so they will soon be stepping into the... I think it's called the vorgon?... the vortex... so they can meet Mr Z in my beautiful, gorgeous office that now has slime and all kinds of gloop,  on the walls... It's not so bad, several terrible Presidents portraits have melted, they were the worst... things could have been much, much worse if they were still commander-in-chief... the whole world would be dead, but I have saved us all and I know, I know, you are all so appreciative, but it's just what I do."

 

"So now I would just like to finish this conference before this transmission is..."

Edited 24 September 2025 by Trav Le Bleu

[leicsmac]

8 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Is it though?

 

Billions spent on giving 4 people a jolly, when the Earth is burning, people are dying of starvation and treatable diseases and cancer claims so many lives?

 

Ok, so obviously there will be scientific knowledge acquired, but it will be minimal benefit compared to any Earthbound research into the problems I mentioned above.

 

Screw space travel.

It's a fair argument to make, and one I've heard before. I think I'll quote from a previous response I've made on this very thread:

"The first (reason) is that the advancement of space tech doesn't just defend against future threats by having humans colonise other places - it also allows us, in some cases, to identify and hopefully address them before they become something we cannot stop. To use the obvious example, if there's an asteroid on its way to give us a really bad day, well, we could do with firstly knowing it's out there and coming for us at all and secondly having the tech standing by in order to sort it out rather than having to build something up from scratch with time that we don't really have. Moving away from that, we can use space tech to monitor for the possibility of supervolcanic eruptions, give projections on temperature increases caused by greenhouse gases, and other things too. It's not exactly saving the world, but it is giving us timely information that we wouldn't otherwise get, that would give us a better chance of it being saved should the need arise - and so increase the chances of long-term human survival. And we've barely scratched the surface of what such tech development might be able to do in order to defend ourselves against such threats. Additionally, to expand on the point above, there are loads of spin-off techs that have resulted from spaceflight programs that have contributed to making life easier and better here in Earth.

The second (reason) does indeed play into the idea of human colonisation of the Moon or Mars or space habitats, and it also requires them to be self-sustaining, at least for a long time (a tough ask, but not impossible). If planetary disaster were to strike, those people would survive, and the Earth would not be off-limits to life forever - depending on the situation, they could one day return, they wouldn't be stuck away from Earth permanently. Of course, restoring any vestige of civilisation would take a bloody long time and might not happen at all, but at least the chance might exist, rather than if they were not there and there be no chance at all. Time, however, is something we have - barring extinction-level events that crop up every so often, Earth is likely going to remain habitable by complex for the next 500-700 million years (until the Sun's increasing luminosity starts playing too much havoc). That is about the same length of time that complex life has existed on Earth at all, and it is somewhere around 10 million human lifetimes. That's why I don't like saying something can't or won't be done - over a long enough timescale, a lot can happen. A hundred years ago the idea of any kind of flight was seen as a ludicrously dangerous enterprise left only to the bravest mavericks, after all. Who knows where we'll be in a thousand years time, let alone more than that?

Provided, of course that we can defend ourselves against the threats that come our way while it all happens." 

[Trav Le Bleu]

32 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

It's a fair argument to make, and one I've heard before. I think I'll quote from a previous response I've made on this very thread:

"The first (reason) is that the advancement of space tech doesn't just defend against future threats by having humans colonise other places - it also allows us, in some cases, to identify and hopefully address them before they become something we cannot stop. To use the obvious example, if there's an asteroid on its way to give us a really bad day, well, we could do with firstly knowing it's out there and coming for us at all and secondly having the tech standing by in order to sort it out rather than having to build something up from scratch with time that we don't really have. Moving away from that, we can use space tech to monitor for the possibility of supervolcanic eruptions, give projections on temperature increases caused by greenhouse gases, and other things too. It's not exactly saving the world, but it is giving us timely information that we wouldn't otherwise get, that would give us a better chance of it being saved should the need arise - and so increase the chances of long-term human survival. And we've barely scratched the surface of what such tech development might be able to do in order to defend ourselves against such threats. Additionally, to expand on the point above, there are loads of spin-off techs that have resulted from spaceflight programs that have contributed to making life easier and better here in Earth.

The second (reason) does indeed play into the idea of human colonisation of the Moon or Mars or space habitats, and it also requires them to be self-sustaining, at least for a long time (a tough ask, but not impossible). If planetary disaster were to strike, those people would survive, and the Earth would not be off-limits to life forever - depending on the situation, they could one day return, they wouldn't be stuck away from Earth permanently. Of course, restoring any vestige of civilisation would take a bloody long time and might not happen at all, but at least the chance might exist, rather than if they were not there and there be no chance at all. Time, however, is something we have - barring extinction-level events that crop up every so often, Earth is likely going to remain habitable by complex for the next 500-700 million years (until the Sun's increasing luminosity starts playing too much havoc). That is about the same length of time that complex life has existed on Earth at all, and it is somewhere around 10 million human lifetimes. That's why I don't like saying something can't or won't be done - over a long enough timescale, a lot can happen. A hundred years ago the idea of any kind of flight was seen as a ludicrously dangerous enterprise left only to the bravest mavericks, after all. Who knows where we'll be in a thousand years time, let alone more than that?

Provided, of course that we can defend ourselves against the threats that come our way while it all happens." 

But which threat do you deal with first?

 

The one that might be something on the horizon or the horde bashing in the gate?

 

At best space travel is a distraction; at worst it's a vanity project.

 

This is from someone who would love to go into space and travel the stars, someone who knows a lot more than the average Joe about NASA and the Soviet Space Program. Amazing, brave people, but the truth is humankind will have destroyed itself long before any significant colonisation of another stellar body.

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

But which threat do you deal with first?

 

The one that might be something on the horizon or the horde bashing in the gate?

 

At best space travel is a distraction; at worst it's a vanity project.

 

This is from someone who would love to go into space and travel the stars, someone who knows a lot more than the average Joe about NASA and the Soviet Space Program. Amazing, brave people, but the truth is humankind will have destroyed itself long before any significant colonisation of another stellar body.

Yeah, fair enough. 

 

I think we might agree that you need to devote the requisite amount of resources to both, but you do need to do both at least somewhat concurrently. 

[The Bear]

Just because the current incumbents of planet Earth are being idiots, doesn't mean that you should stop all space exploration. It's a vital step in our species' evolution. 

 

We've screwed up the planet enough in the last 100 years that giving future generations the extra ammunition to call us one of the the worst generations to have ever lived would just be embarrassing. 

 

Most of our problems down here can be sorted out through governments and peoples of the world working together. The sad fact is they aren't interested in anyone but themselves. 

 

Sod scrapping space exploration just because of that. Plus you always get new technologies and ideas from pure scientific research. You just don't know what and when they will be. 

[leicsmac]

16 minutes ago, The Bear said:

Just because the current incumbents of planet Earth are being idiots, doesn't mean that you should stop all space exploration. It's a vital step in our species' evolution. 

 

We've screwed up the planet enough in the last 100 years that giving future generations the extra ammunition to call us one of the the worst generations to have ever lived would just be embarrassing. 

 

Most of our problems down here can be sorted out through governments and peoples of the world working together. The sad fact is they aren't interested in anyone but themselves. 

 

Sod scrapping space exploration just because of that. Plus you always get new technologies and ideas from pure scientific research. You just don't know what and when they will be. 

I can't quite get my head around the idea that some people don't grasp that our name is already mud with future generations because of how shitty we're leaving the world for them already. Do we really want to go the whole hog in terms of screwing them over (like, absolutely) and muddy it even more?

[deep blue]

45 minutes ago, The Bear said:

Just because the current incumbents of planet Earth are being idiots, doesn't mean that you should stop all space exploration. It's a vital step in our species' evolution. 

....

Stop right there.  That's a statement that can't be justified by any reasoning.

 

The only gains from space research, looking for extraterrestrial life, are technological advances that would be found through routine research programs in the various spheres, which are far less costly.

 

As someone else has said, these are vanity projects, and if you doubt that just look at the characters who have recently emerged to play leading roles in promoting it.

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, deep blue said:

Stop right there.  That's a statement that can't be justified by any reasoning.

 

The only gains from space research, looking for extraterrestrial life, are technological advances that would be found through routine research programs in the various spheres, which are far less costly.

 

As someone else has said, these are vanity projects, and if you doubt that just look at the characters who have recently emerged to play leading roles in promoting it.

If you burn your house down, you would likely look for another.....

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, deep blue said:

Stop right there.  That's a statement that can't be justified by any reasoning.

 

The only gains from space research, looking for extraterrestrial life, are technological advances that would be found through routine research programs in the various spheres, which are far less costly.

 

As someone else has said, these are vanity projects, and if you doubt that just look at the characters who have recently emerged to play leading roles in promoting it.

I think this a statement that requires something to back it up, tbh. 

 

It's obvious that vanity plays at least some part in these programs (one could say the entire Space Race in the 60s was a vanity project on the part of entire nations), but that doesn't mean that the research such projects bring isn't both not intuitively found by other means or not critical to the continued survival of our civilisation and biosphere. 

[Dunge]

I think humanity needs vanity projects, at least right now. It needs to dream, to satiate its desire for exploration. And we’re better off doing that upwards than sideways.

 

For instance, which planet would you prefer Elon Musk was focusing on - Earth or Mars?

[The Bear]

1 hour ago, deep blue said:

Stop right there.  That's a statement that can't be justified by any reasoning.

 

The only gains from space research, looking for extraterrestrial life, are technological advances that would be found through routine research programs in the various spheres, which are far less costly.

 

As someone else has said, these are vanity projects, and if you doubt that just look at the characters who have recently emerged to play leading roles in promoting it.

The sheer naivety of the above is staggering.

 

Being able to colonize our local solar system and install bases elsewhere other than Earth can't just be tested and learnt down here. You have to go up and do it. Just look at Space-X and how many iterations of their rockets and boosters they've got through which have failed in order to get where they are now with some decent degree of reliability. 

 

You can't just leave the practical applications of space travel to the last minute when you need to rely upon it or die. Science just doesn't work like that. 

 

THAT would be a recipe for human catastrophe. 

Edited 25 September 2025 by The Bear

[Trav Le Bleu]

17 minutes ago, The Bear said:

The sheer naivety of the above is staggering.

 

Being able to colonize our local solar system and install bases elsewhere other than Earth can't just be tested and learnt down here. You have to go up and do it. Just look at Space-X and how many iterations of their rockets and boosters they've got through which have failed in order to get where they are now with some decent degree of reliability. 

 

You can't just leave the practical applications of space travel to the last minute when you need to rely upon it or die. Science just doesn't work like that. 

 

THAT would be a recipe for human catastrophe. 

I think you're missing the point.

[leicsmac]

On 25/09/2025 at 09:20, leicsmac said:

I can't quite get my head around the idea that some people don't grasp that our name is already mud with future generations because of how shitty we're leaving the world for them already. Do we really want to go the whole hog in terms of screwing them over (like, absolutely) and muddy it even more?

To add a further reason why our names are going to be mud, Google "Planned Obsolescence" and despair.

[dsr-burnley]

On 24/09/2025 at 22:38, Trav Le Bleu said:

Is it though?

 

Billions spent on giving 4 people a jolly, when the Earth is burning, people are dying of starvation and treatable diseases and cancer claims so many lives?

 

Ok, so obviously there will be scientific knowledge acquired, but it will be minimal benefit compared to any Earthbound research into the problems I mentioned above.

 

Screw space travel.

I see the point, but do you apply it consistently down the line?  Should I go on holiday this year or should I give the money to good causes?  Is it right to eat an an expensive restaurant when there are people begging on the streets?  All of us, governments included, spend money on "vanity" or "enjoyment" projects when there are more worthy causes.

[Trav Le Bleu]

5 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

I see the point, but do you apply it consistently down the line?  Should I go on holiday this year or should I give the money to good causes?  Is it right to eat an an expensive restaurant when there are people begging on the streets?  All of us, governments included, spend money on "vanity" or "enjoyment" projects when there are more worthy causes.

Absolutely. But this is that magnified by so many times.

 

I personally would not eat at a restaurant that is too lavish. I watch MasterChef for instance and shake my head at the hoops jumped through to prepare a meal that's going to provide a few minutes of pleasure.

[MPH]

It was announced today that renewable energy sources have finally overtaken coal as the leading source of energy for the world,

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, MPH said:

It was announced today that renewable energy sources have finally overtaken coal as the leading source of energy for the world,

As discussed in the gen news thread, excellent news, and now we need such continual advances to either be joined by the US and Russia (among others) or for it to flat out trample them in its wake. A very great many lives depend on it. 

[Sampson]

Interesting video on AI slop

 

 

Edited 7 October 2025 by Sampson

[Trav Le Bleu]

9 hours ago, MPH said:

It was announced today that renewable energy sources have finally overtaken coal as the leading source of energy for the world,

Slight adjustment to this. Leading source of electricity. Furthermore, fossil fuel (coal, oil and gas) as a collective block still dominate.

 

While it's good news it's important to maintain perspective. Still things such as USA's renewables growth prediction being halved are of concern.

 

Renewables overtake coal as world's biggest source of electricity - BBC News

 

https://share.google/oKzr9an5KSgKPdArO

 

Interesting that the article describes China as a developing nation... not sure we can say that anymore.

 

 

Edited 8 October 2025 by Trav Le Bleu

[blabyboy]

10 hours ago, Sampson said:

Interesting video on AI slop

 

 

It's a 'big' problem, from cultural, truth and environmental perspectives. However, the technology itself may be the best solution to the problem it generates.

[Sampson]

3 hours ago, blabyboy said:

It's a 'big' problem, from cultural, truth and environmental perspectives. However, the technology itself may be the best solution to the problem it generates.

Given who is behind the technology, I don’t trust that one but sadly. 4 more years of AI slop improving until it’s hard to tell facts from its self-checking made up “truth” will have a huge impact on the 2029 elections.