Should Britain's railways be nationised?

[Guest MattP]

8 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

bloody socialists 

Even Tory voters when polled support re-nationalisation of the railways in some form.

 

I think it comes down to nostalgia personally but it's clear where public mood lies on this. 

[Guest Kopfkino]

5 minutes ago, MattP said:

Even Tory voters when polled support re-nationalisation of the railways in some form.

 

I think it comes down to nostalgia personally but it's clear where public mood lies on this. 

 

I don't think nostalgia comes into it, I've never met anyone old enough to remember nationalised industries that didn't work in them who doesn't hold it in contempt.

 

The railways are classic case, like healthcare, where people see it as a binary choice. The current franchise system fails in some aspects so the only solution in people's minds is nationalisation.

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

I don't think nostalgia comes into it, I've never met anyone old enough to remember nationalised industries that didn't work in them who doesn't hold it in contempt.

 

The railways are classic case, like healthcare, where people see it as a binary choice. The current franchise system fails in some aspects so the only solution in people's minds is nationalisation.

I suppose the NHS is a perfect example of that, any suggestion of change and people automatically start shouting about the American system like ours and theirs are the only two in existence, ignoring the vast number of options across Europe than perform better that both and are somewhere in between the two.

Edited 12 February 2018 by MattP

[Voll Blau]

I've never bought the line that privatisation increases competition as I don't really see it as applicable in this case. If I need to travel to Manchester, I'm not going to go to Leeds instead just because it might be cheaper? Off the top of my head, the only place where there seems to be some kind of competition over pricing is on the West Coast Line down to London, and even then you have to accept travelling on a far inferior train which takes much longer if you want to make a worthwhile saving.

[Guest Kopfkino]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

I suppose the NHS is a perfect example of that, any suggestion of change and people automatically start shouting about the American system like ours and theirs are the only two in existence, ignoring the vast number of options across Europe than perform better that both and are somewhere in between the two.

 

There is definitely that with the NHS, even an intelligent bloke like Alan Johnson failed to grasp the UK and US models are the only choices. But the NHS is protected by deep-rooted nationalism. Last week YouGov released a poll that said the NHS is what makes them most proud to be British. Everyone, even people that are aware of other systems, is for some reason blinded by this bizarre belief that the NHS is the envy of the world.

 

And what makes it all the more strange is we ignore Europe on healthcare but then everyone is here saying well look how they do rail so wonderfully well in Europe. And yeah they do alright on flashy, high-speed routes but the UK invests the most in conventional lines (because we don't in high-speed) and regional routes are known to be terrible in much of Europe (as they can be here). But yet there must be a reason why the EU has previously sent delegations to see how it works at Network Rail, and the fourth railway package moves the EU far closer to our model.

 

The franchise system as it stands is pretty rubbish. It is wrong that Virgin and Stagecoach can overbid, and when they don't realise their desired returns they leave the state to clean up the mess without punishment. Of course it's daft for a company to be exposed to nearly all the benefits but near none of the failure. But it's also wrong for government failure to impact on Virgin and Stagecoach. 

Edited 12 February 2018 by Kopfkino

[Jon the Hat]

3 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

I've never bought the line that privatisation increases competition as I don't really see it as applicable in this case. If I need to travel to Manchester, I'm not going to go to Leeds instead just because it might be cheaper? Off the top of my head, the only place where there seems to be some kind of competition over pricing is on the West Coast Line down to London, and even then you have to accept travelling on a far inferior train which takes much longer if you want to make a worthwhile saving.

I think you defeated your own argument in your first sentence.  The competition is in the franchise tender process.  You do however still have choose whether to take the train vs fly, drive or coach your journey, and the number of people using the train is up hugely since privatisation.  

[Voll Blau]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

I think you defeated your own argument in your first sentence.  The competition is in the franchise tender process.  You do however still have choose whether to take the train vs fly, drive or coach your journey, and the number of people using the train is up hugely since privatisation.  

Yes, but practically speaking how does that help the everyday traveller? Prices continue to rise and I don't feel like I've been getting a better service at all despite travelling with numerous different franchises all across the country. It's not like I can simply take my business elsewhere?

 

Granted, I'm only just old enough to recall the last time our system was under public ownership so I can't vouch for how effective/ineffective it was then, but I'm certainly not feeling much of a benefit with the way things are currently.

[Sharpe's Fox]

another victory for the left ✊???

[cc_star]

NO!

 

Absolutely not

 

They should be opened up to more competition, ie companies not bidding for regions, but companies bidding for route packages

 

At the moment, the selling of regional monopolies does nothing but remove the running costs from the taxpayer, it doesn't offer the consumers the full benefits of the open market

[BoyJones]

I would say no.

 

Based on everything that gets nationalised turns eventually to shit.

 

There's no competition so no pride in doing a good job. Employees know they don't have to bust a gut. They are safe, get a nice pension and can just drift along happily. Customer service is non existent, look at HMRC, the Police force, local councils - the consumer / customer has no importance. 

 

Virgin Trains etc might be poorly run, but don't kid yourself that the government of the day would do a better job. 

[Mr Mister]

If it means lower train fares and increased routes, then it's a yes.

 

It's a shame that for a central location like Leicester there is no direct service to places like Newcastle, Norwich, Leeds, Cardiff, Southampton, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Glasgow, etc. I'm sure with nationalisation there would be direct services to those cities. 

[Webbo]

4 minutes ago, Mr Mister said:

If it means lower train fares and increased routes, then it's a yes.

 

It's a shame that for a central location like Leicester there is no direct service to places like Newcastle, Norwich, Leeds, Cardiff, Southampton, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Glasgow, etc. I'm sure with nationalisation there would be direct services to those cities. 

Why would it mean that?

[Mr Mister]

It's thanks to privatision that we have a crap, inefficient rail system with poor, cramped trains, crap railtrack, and delays. All on expensive fares.

[Mr Mister]

Privatisation is one of the great Tory follies for ruining this country.

[Izzy]

3 minutes ago, Mr Mister said:

It's thanks to privatision that we have a crap, inefficient rail system with poor, cramped trains, crap railtrack, and delays. All on expensive fares.

Not everywhere.

I get the train from Aylesbury to Marylebone a few times a month and it’s always on time, reliable and decent value.

I’m sure there are issues on certain lines at specific times but not in my experience.

[Webbo]

44 minutes ago, Mr Mister said:

It's thanks to privatision that we have a crap, inefficient rail system with poor, cramped trains, crap railtrack, and delays. All on expensive fares.

Yeah, and it was so good before.