Donut Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 Not sure it really matters going into the absolute finer details of the stats on this. Kane is less efficient in finishing...........true, but he scores more. His primary job is scoring. Ronaldo shoots a lot, and wastes a lot of shots. He also scores a lot and has the potential to score all kinds of goals. Kane and Ronaldo's shooting is a weapon. Not every pass comes off, not every dribble comes off. Does it even matter? we actually are starting to look like a decent international team after years of shit, would be daft changing the formation to suit 1 man who is Englands 2nd best striker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwell Pablo Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Facecloth said: When did I admit that? Im arguing because you're wrong, again. And ignoring evidence presented to you, again. He scores more because he's in a stronger team and he shoots more, and I mean a hell of a lot more. Kane had 184 shots last season, 76 hit the target, he scored 30 goals. Vardy had 71 shots last season, 35 on target and resulted on 20 goals. He's much more efficient in front of goal, that stats prove it. Lukaku btw had 86 shots, 43 on target, resulting in 16 goals. Aguero 94 shots, 42 on target, 21 goals. That's for the all conquering , not stop attacking champions. Salah is the only one who gets close, with 144 shots, 67 on target and 32 goals. Yes she scpres more, but he's clearly not as efficient in front of goal as other top strikers in the league. You might say he gets in more shooting positions, I say it's because he tries the impossible a little too much. Maybe he needs to play the pecentages a bit more, use his team mates every now and then. I'd say it's both. But Nothing wrong with shooting a lot in order to score, don't buy a ticket, don't win the raffle. Would not have Vardy in the team ahead of Kane for all the tea in China total non starter although I'm not entirely convinced you are saying that so why your both arguing about it I don't know. Edited 19 June 2018 by Manwell Pablo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 1 minute ago, AKCJ said: Surely a striker's job is to score goals. I'd rather have a striker score 30 goals with a poor efficiency than one that scores 1/3rd fewer with a good efficiency. Surely you'd rather a striker was more efficient and scored goals? Spurs have to work harder for every goal he scores than Man city do with Aguero. That can't be good. I'm still saying start him, just start Vardy too. Or at least get him in th pitch when we need a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 1 minute ago, AKCJ said: Surely a striker's job is to score goals. I'd rather have a striker score 30 goals with a poor efficiency than one that scores 1/3rd fewer with a good efficiency. You can only score the chances you get. Vardy gets fewer chances than Kane but more reliably converts them. Implication would be given the same number of chances, Vardy would be ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 My point was I could see why Vardy wasn't picked and this clamour for him was just Leicester bias. Finners started ranting, Facecloth jumped in because he's desperate to score points on me. The whole thing has been a load of bollox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donut Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 Just now, The Doctor said: You can only score the chances you get. Vardy gets fewer chances than Kane but more reliably converts them. Implication would be given the same number of chances, Vardy would be ahead. Vardy could be given better chances? Just a devils advocate thing, I don't actually believe he does but what I do believe is, this is a non existent debate because Kane is bang in form and one of the best strikers in the tournament. Argentina aren't trying to fit Messi, Dybala, Aguero, Higuain all into the same team, even though theyre all good. Someone has to miss out, the team isn't suffering, Kane is phenomenal, Vardy is too, stats DO have merit but can be manipulated, lets move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Wall Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, the fox said: Yeah, and Arab countries too. Yes, I am. My point of you is this. I was raised on the principle of "you support your brother before your cousin, your blood before your friend and your friend before a stranger". Think for Arabs, we share too much together for me not to support them. I may laugh when they fail but with no ill intent. I want them to do good and live happily. If I don't back them, who will? tbf, Bin Laden had a mean shot on him......... a terrorist joke? no? ok, I would leave it there. I support all Africans when they are representing our continent. While I have my favorites (like Ghana, Senegal, Morocco, Tunisia, ivory coast..etc), Any team representing our homeland is getting my support. Thanks for taking the time to explain. I can get that and fair play to you. I have to say, I've been disappointed with the African nations so far. Let's hope Senegal and Egypt get going today. A World cup is always better for a surprise nation. Maybe it'll be Japan this time but I'd like an African nation to do well too. Don't mind which one. Edited 19 June 2018 by Max Wall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 2 minutes ago, Facecloth said: Surely you'd rather a striker was more efficient and scored goals? Spurs have to work harder for every goal he scores than Man city do with Aguero. That can't be good. I'm still saying start him, just start Vardy too. Or at least get him in th pitch when we need a goal. Raheem Sterling had 34 shots on target and he scored 18 goals. If it's all about efficiency, then surely he starts? http://www.squawka.com/players/raheem-sterling/stats#shot-accuracy#manchester-city-(current)#english-barclays-premier-league#8#season-2017/2018#819#all-matches#1-38#zone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 Just now, Donut said: Vardy could be given better chances? Just a devils advocate thing, I don't actually believe he does but what I do believe is, this is a non existent debate because Kane is bang in form and one of the best strikers in the tournament. Argentina aren't trying to fit Messi, Dybala, Aguero, Higuain all into the same team, even though theyre all good. Someone has to miss out, the team isn't suffering, Kane is phenomenal, Vardy is too, stats DO have merit but can be manipulated, lets move on. Well it is because we created a shit ton of chances yesterday (not for Kane mind) and missed them all. Kane did his job, fair enough, the others didn't. They missed chance after chance, didn't actually create anything for Kane (both goals from set pieces) which is supposedly their strengthes that put them ahead of Vardy and Rashford. Kane is fine, I'm not sayin drop him. But our style creates chances we have players who can't take them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 2 minutes ago, AKCJ said: Raheem Sterling had 34 shots on target and he scored 18 goals. If it's all about efficiency, then surely he starts? http://www.squawka.com/players/raheem-sterling/stats#shot-accuracy#manchester-city-(current)#english-barclays-premier-league#8#season-2017/2018#819#all-matches#1-38#zone And he has been, and he's struggled, so maybe time to take him out for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 34 minutes ago, Webbo said: The statistic is Kane has scored more goals than Vardy. Sigh. Wilfred Ndidi made more tackles last year than Ngolo Kante. Is he a better defensive midfielder, or did he play for a more defensive team that had less possession? I should point out that when it comes to Kane vs Vardy, I'm not seriously arguing that Vardy is a better striker. What I am doing is asking people to be more open minded, use a bit more common sense and stop comparing apples and oranges when viewing statistics. That or just don't get in to these arguments if you aren't interested, I mean that is perfectly fair. You cannot argue that a player that scores ten goals is better than a player that scores nine goals on that criteria alone. It's a team sport, the team around you represent an endless number of other variables. You can compare Usain Bolt definitively to Tyson Gay by looking at their personal bests because its an individual sport where the time you run represents the outcome and is the only stat that matters. You can't compare two goalscorers in two vastly different teams simply by how many goals they did eventually score and determine that one is definitely better than the other. It's a bit like debating formula one in 2016 and saying Nico Rosberg is a better driver than Fernando Alonso simply because he won the title. Obviously that makes some sense on the surface but we all know that the car and the team plays a huge part. If Kane goes to United next season and Mourinho being Mourinho he only gets about 15 goals out of Kane, Kane isn't suddenly half the player he was this year, is he? Surely even as a complete caveman you've got to read this and go "yeah, okay, it's obviously not that straightforward." You're allowed to think Kane is better, obviously, that's fine, he probably really is. I'm not actually suggesting otherwise with a straight face. But have the intelligence, at very least, to accept that goals scored as the only metric is not a strong one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donut Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 1 minute ago, Facecloth said: Well it is because we created a shit ton of chances yesterday (not for Kane mind) and missed them all. Kane did his job, fair enough, the others didn't. They missed chance after chance, didn't actually create anything for Kane (both goals from set pieces) which is supposedly their strengthes that put them ahead of Vardy and Rashford. Kane is fine, I'm not sayin drop him. But our style creates chances we have players who can't take them. We could go round with this debate though, we could say look how many good positions Lingard got into etc and on another day he would take those chances. The Tunisia keeper was so lucky to keep his first effort out too. We don't have a lot of creativity in the side in terms of creating chances against the best I think that's a worry but I was positive about last night on the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 Just now, Finnegan said: Sigh. Wilfred Ndidi made more tackles last year than Ngolo Kante. Is he a better defensive midfielder, or did he play for a more defensive team that had less possession? I should point out that when it comes to Kane vs Vardy, I'm not seriously arguing that Vardy is a better striker. What I am doing is asking people to be more open minded, use a bit more common sense and stop comparing apples and oranges when viewing statistics. That or just don't get in to these arguments if you aren't interested, I mean that is perfectly fair. You cannot argue that a player that scores ten goals is better than a player that scores nine goals on that criteria alone. It's a team sport, the team around you represent an endless number of other variables. You can compare Usain Bolt definitively to Tyson Gay by looking at their personal bests because its an individual sport where the time you run represents the outcome and is the only stat that matters. You can't compare two goalscorers in two vastly different teams simply by how many goals they did eventually score and determine that one is definitely better than the other. It's a bit like debating formula one in 2016 and saying Nico Rosberg is a better driver than Fernando Alonso simply because he won the title. Obviously that makes some sense on the surface but we all know that the car and the team plays a huge part. If Kane goes to United next season and Mourinho being Mourinho he only gets about 15 goals out of Kane, Kane isn't suddenly half the player he was this year, is he? Surely even as a complete caveman you've got to read this and go "yeah, okay, it's obviously not that straightforward." You're allowed to think Kane is better, obviously, that's fine, he probably really is. I'm not actually suggesting otherwise with a straight face. But have the intelligence, at very least, to accept that goals scored as the only metric is not a strong one. Finners,I normally quite like you but I think you're in a bit of a mood today. You're going OTT over nothing. I'm not going to call you a caveman or anything else. I'll just leave it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the fox Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 People, just watch the games! Harry Kane takes shots that are less efficient than Vards because of his playstyle and the style of the team he plays in. Do people think that Kane can't cherry-pick his shots and get 20 goals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 And scene. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col city fan Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 What a load of old bollox.. Page after page after page of ‘Finners’ and Webbo (who i think is ok by the way) going round and round in bloody circles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKCJ Posted 19 June 2018 Share Posted 19 June 2018 Harry Kane continues to get 40 odd goals a season under Mourinho btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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