Long Term Strategy

[Dan]

OP is an excellent analysis and you've got to give credit to people at the club for realising the errors that were made previously. Ghezzal still appears very questionable and effectively signals we've given up on Diabate, but you'd have to say the recruitment did make a lot more sense in the summer.

 

The gripe really is that a lot of the football this season has been rubbish and this is where the debate goes on with Puel - how much of the positives listed in the OP is down to Puel, and how much is due to those above him?

Because nowadays for me, that kind of strategy should be coming from above Puel himself, with Puel responsible for coaching the team.

 

I do honestly believe our future is bright, but I think Puel will be looked back upon one day as a transitional manager - I expect his successor (because in truth I don't think he'll last ages here) to do very well. He definitely deserves some credit in all of this and these are pretty much the reasons why I haven't gone all guns glazing at him, because plenty has happened this season that I've questioned.

 

We're in a strong position as a club though. Tying down bright young players to long deals is common sense.

 

I want to think that Rudkin has learnt from his mistakes.

[Dan]

6 hours ago, bmouth_fox said:

Bloody hell - common sense and a refreshingly logical post. I agree with every word. I would love to see where Puel could take us in 3-5 years. Rome wasn’t built in a day bla bla bla. 

 

My my one concern is that there seems a sect of the fan base who will never warm to or accept Puel - for a large part because of his perceived dour media persona which seems ludicrous to me (and some iffy performances with a young side who are learning all the time). That basically means there will always be an undercurrent of ‘Puel out’, probably  even if we had 3-4 seasons of 7th and 2-3 Europa League campaigns. And a divided fan base is never good.

 

I hope we smash Cardiff because it’s just the sort of game we have struggled with this season. If we draw or lose no doubt it will reignite some of the Puel our embers. 

Agreed with this but if we do blow it, you can half sympathise somewhat. That isn't to knock the last two results as they were phenomenal but it will show that we've still not properly overcome our achilles heel.

 

If we go and win 3-0 it could change quite a few minds I think.

 

Problem under Puel is so often you think it's about to come good and we go and turn in a shocker. Everton at home and Bournemouth away the particular standouts this season.

[TheSomersetFox]

i'm all for the long term plan and sticking by a manager, but it does have to be the right manager. I wouldn't want us to stick by the likes of Mark Hughes or Gary Megson through thick and thin lets say. Puel certainly isn't in their bracket though, he's got more going for him as a manager than most.

 

There's a lot to like about Puel, but in fairness a week ago the bloke was about on a result or 2 from the sack and i'd turned to the idea that we'd be better off looking elsewhere. 

 

If he's able to build on the last 2 unreal results, sort out the discord behind the scenes and guide us to a 7th place finish then fair play, he's done a brilliant job this season. The main problem for me now however is getting it right behind the scenes. Fall outs with almost everyone at the club doesn't bode well for him and it goes against the ethos that made us so strong as a club to begin with.

 

If we're honest, anything less than 3 points tomorrow and the last 2 results will be forgotten and it's back to square one for Claude.

[Nicolo Barella]

14 hours ago, winteriscoming said:

I would ask the question do any premiership sides have a long term strategy?

Spurs, Brighton, Bournemouth, Arsenal (Probably)

[Nicolo Barella]

1 hour ago, Goober said:

i'm all for the long term plan and sticking by a manager, but it does have to be the right manager. I wouldn't want us to stick by the likes of Mark Hughes or Gary Megson through thick and thin lets say. Puel certainly isn't in their bracket though, he's got more going for him as a manager than most.

 

There's a lot to like about Puel, but in fairness a week ago the bloke was about on a result or 2 from the sack and i'd turned to the idea that we'd be better off looking elsewhere. 

 

If he's able to build on the last 2 unreal results, sort out the discord behind the scenes and guide us to a 7th place finish then fair play, he's done a brilliant job this season. The main problem for me now however is getting it right behind the scenes. Fall outs with almost everyone at the club doesn't bode well for him and it goes against the ethos that made us so strong as a club to begin with.

 

If we're honest, anything less than 3 points tomorrow and the last 2 results will be forgotten and it's back to square one for Claude.

This makes my blood boil. Fall outs with almost everyone at the club? Not even the sketchiest reports, a la Sun, have claimed that. In fact, there have only been vague, mostly baseless accusations to appeal to fans who don't like him. 

 

The last 2 results will be forgotten by the lowest common denominator of our fans, yes, if we don't grab 3 points tomorrow. I highly doubt our extremely high level management would, however.

[TheSomersetFox]

26 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

This makes my blood boil. Fall outs with almost everyone at the club? Not even the sketchiest reports, a la Sun, have claimed that. In fact, there have only been vague, mostly baseless accusations to appeal to fans who don't like him. 

 

The last 2 results will be forgotten by the lowest common denominator of our fans, yes, if we don't grab 3 points tomorrow. I highly doubt our extremely high level management would, however.

Read what John Percy and Geoff Peters have said in regards to the fall outs. Appears to have been a massive breakdown in relations with the players and much of the staff. 

 

And im stating a fact. Don’t win tomorrow and the majority will be asking serious questions again. That is a fact whether you think it’s right or not. The fact our ‘high level management’ appeared to be on the verge of sacking him a week ago - again, read Percy’s reports - tells me that failure to win tomorrow would again leave them with questions to ask. 

 

you can continue thinking everything is rosy now however, if that makes you feel any better.

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, Nicolo Barella said:

This makes my blood boil. Fall outs with almost everyone at the club? Not even the sketchiest reports, a la Sun, have claimed that. In fact, there have only been vague, mostly baseless accusations to appeal to fans who don't like him. 

 

The last 2 results will be forgotten by the lowest common denominator of our fans, yes, if we don't grab 3 points tomorrow. I highly doubt our extremely high level management would, however.

55 minutes ago, Goober said:

Read what John Percy and Geoff Peters have said in regards to the fall outs. Appears to have been a massive breakdown in relations with the players and much of the staff. 

 

And im stating a fact. Don’t win tomorrow and the majority will be asking serious questions again. That is a fact whether you think it’s right or not. The fact our ‘high level management’ appeared to be on the verge of sacking him a week ago - again, read Percy’s reports - tells me that failure to win tomorrow would again leave them with questions to ask. 

 

you can continue thinking everything is rosy now however, if that makes you feel any better.

Let's focus on today's match first, lads.

[Nicolo Barella]

55 minutes ago, Goober said:

Read what John Percy and Geoff Peters have said in regards to the fall outs. Appears to have been a massive breakdown in relations with the players and much of the staff. 

 

And im stating a fact. Don’t win tomorrow and the majority will be asking serious questions again. That is a fact whether you think it’s right or not. The fact our ‘high level management’ appeared to be on the verge of sacking him a week ago - again, read Percy’s reports - tells me that failure to win tomorrow would again leave them with questions to ask. 

 

you can continue thinking everything is rosy now however, if that makes you feel any better.

I don't. But it's certainly not "back to square one" for him. He has a winning record after half the season with us - that's better than the vast majority of managers in the PL right now. Back to square 1 would be a massively disjointed team, with all the young talents he's developed and integrated sold, and all the fanbase skeptical of him. He isn't there now, and a poor result against Cardiff wouldn't move him "back to square 1".

[Nicolo Barella]

2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Let's focus on today's match first, lads.

Whoops...

[TheSomersetFox]

36 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

I don't. But it's certainly not "back to square one" for him. He has a winning record after half the season with us - that's better than the vast majority of managers in the PL right now. Back to square 1 would be a massively disjointed team, with all the young talents he's developed and integrated sold, and all the fanbase skeptical of him. He isn't there now, and a poor result against Cardiff wouldn't move him "back to square 1".

In terms of the security of his job, I believe it would. We’ve seen plenty of false dawns under Puel and it would be the most annoying of the lot after the week we’ve had. 

 

Im not saying Cardiff will be a piece of piss and they’ll roll over for us, but we really should be beating them. 3 of the ‘easiest’ points we should be getting all season.

[Captain...]

All this talk of long term strategy and nobody has mentioned the dof. It is the director of football at most clubs that drives the long term strategy, “managers” are head coaches and are expendable. Watford have been the most obvious example, and many more are moving to that approach. We’ve been a little behind the curve on this, the switch to a passing side would have made more sense if we had been signing young players that could keep the ball for the last few windows.

 

I don’t know how much influence Puel has on transfers, whether he just puts in a wish list and tries to get the best out of whoever turns up, or identifies targets himself, works with the scouting team and is more involved.

 

Watford have very much kept the head coach out of recruitment which is why they have a balanced squad that successive managers have been able to work with quickly and effectively. If we have a long term plan and a list of targets who can execute it Puel becomes expendable. The poor planning for the transition period has probably saved his job for now but his job is being questioned because he isn’t getting the results out of a talented squad. The last 2 games show how good our players are, but if they can beat Chelsea and Man City but continue to struggle against Palace, Burnley, Bournemouth, Cardiff etc then something needs to change.

 

 

[Mike Oxlong]

3 hours ago, Goober said:

In terms of the security of his job, I believe it would. We’ve seen plenty of false dawns under Puel and it would be the most annoying of the lot after the week we’ve had. 

 

Im not saying Cardiff will be a piece of piss and they’ll roll over for us, but we really should be beating them. 3 of the ‘easiest’ points we should be getting all season.

This could have been written about us on the Chelsea or Blue Moon forums a couple of weeks ago 

 

That’s the beauty of football 

 

Things don’t always go as expected 

 

Any meaningful view of the pros and cons of Puel has to be considered having regard to the wider picture rather than just a few results, good or bad. 

[Oxfordfox83]

39 minutes ago, Captain... said:

All this talk of long term strategy and nobody has mentioned the dof. It is the director of football at most clubs that drives the long term strategy, “managers” are head coaches and are expendable. Watford have been the most obvious example, and many more are moving to that approach. We’ve been a little behind the curve on this, the switch to a passing side would have made more sense if we had been signing young players that could keep the ball for the last few windows.

 

I don’t know how much influence Puel has on transfers, whether he just puts in a wish list and tries to get the best out of whoever turns up, or identifies targets himself, works with the scouting team and is more involved.

 

Watford have very much kept the head coach out of recruitment which is why they have a balanced squad that successive managers have been able to work with quickly and effectively. If we have a long term plan and a list of targets who can execute it Puel becomes expendable. The poor planning for the transition period has probably saved his job for now but his job is being questioned because he isn’t getting the results out of a talented squad. The last 2 games show how good our players are, but if they can beat Chelsea and Man City but continue to struggle against Palace, Burnley, Bournemouth, Cardiff etc then something needs to change.

 

 

With all the respect due to you, apart from one penalty shoot out against Man City, what better result were you hoping for than 7th at this stage of the season? The megabucks mini-league aside, we are in the one position that every club in the league is fighting for. And we’re doing it while learning a new system, underperforming, and bringing young players into the fold. 

 

Yeah, it’s not clicked straight away. It’s been painful to watch at times. But the table never lies- the one thing we are getting is results.

[TheSomersetFox]

48 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

This could have been written about us on the Chelsea or Blue Moon forums a couple of weeks ago 

 

That’s the beauty of football 

 

Things don’t always go as expected 

 

Any meaningful view of the pro and cons of Puel has to be considered having regard to the wider picture rather than just a few results, good or bad. 

I completely accept that. Again I’m not saying it’s a given, but as I’ve said failure today would feel like another false dawn, one of a few disappointments that will have added up. That would be the problem for me, more so than the result in isolation.

 

If we play them off the park, their keeper has one of those days and we fail to win then fair enough, it’s not completely about the result. But we can’t have another Palace away/Burnley at home/West Ham at home performance today.

[Grebfromgrebland]

I wonder how many who want Puel out also voted for Brexit?

[HighPeakFox]

3 hours ago, Goober said:

Read what John Percy and Geoff Peters have said in regards to the fall outs. Appears to have been a massive breakdown in relations with the players and much of the staff. 

 

And im stating a fact. Don’t win tomorrow and the majority will be asking serious questions again. That is a fact whether you think it’s right or not. The fact our ‘high level management’ appeared to be on the verge of sacking him a week ago - again, read Percy’s reports - tells me that failure to win tomorrow would again leave them with questions to ask. 

 

you can continue thinking everything is rosy now however, if that makes you feel any better.

A tad fast and loose with the word 'fact' here, Goober....by all means have your opinion, but you dare suggest what the majority will do as a 'fact? Come on.

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, Grebfromgrebland said:

I wonder how many who want Puel out also voted for Brexit?

DGT (Don't go there)

[Mike Oxlong]

2 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

A tad fast and loose with the word 'fact' here, Goober....by all means have your opinion, but you dare suggest what the majority will do as a 'fact? Come on.

He was never going to get that one through HPF Quality Control 

 

 

[Grebfromgrebland]

After the Man city win Steve Walsh joked that now Puel had won that we should give him another week. 

 

I though it was a bit close to the bone but we all laughed anyway.

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, Mike Oxlong said:

He was never going to get that one through HPF Quality Control 

 

 

I mean, really...!

[Mike Oxlong]

1 minute ago, HighPeakFox said:

I mean, really...!

Maybe a post match ballot of every Leicester fan on the planet has already been arranged ! 

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, Mike Oxlong said:

Maybe a post match ballot of every Leicester fan on the planet has already been arranged ! 

Fact

[TheSomersetFox]

12 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

A tad fast and loose with the word 'fact' here, Goober....by all means have your opinion, but you dare suggest what the majority will do as a 'fact? Come on.

I’ve seen it plenty of times before on here - and plenty of times this season alone. I’m extremely confident in my prediction

[HighPeakFox]

7 minutes ago, Goober said:

I’ve seen it plenty of times before on here - and plenty of times this season alone. I’m extremely confident in my prediction

A prediction is not a fact, old bean

[Quorndon_Fox]

Fantastic well written post! 

 

I think the real challenge lies in keeping our best young talent aka Maguire, Chilwell, Ndidi, Maddison, Hamza, etc. Thanks to the re-sign mission Rudkin has been on if any of these players go it will be for a massive fee, however... the difficulty sits around replacing them with the next great young hope or spending big on a world class replacement which probably won't be attracted to a club not yet established as a regular top six side.

 

Its a bit of a chicken and egg scenario and the question is how quickly can we make that move into the top six without someone pulling one of our main cards and making the house collapse.