Coronavirus Forum

[HighPeakFox]

7 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

The thing is, we're acting on a private forum that for some has become such a part of their life, it feels practically public, so people do have the tendency to behave as if they were at home.

I mean, it's great we can voice our opinion, that's what a debate is all about, but I'm guilty of it myself for forgetting that I'm merely a guest by invitation on here, and that I can be hit with a ban any day, without any reason given.

 

Technically, bans are warranted, because the owner and the moderators can act as they wish. They own this.

What you can argue is the missing line sometimes, the bans usually do come across as rather erratic.

 

I do hope you find a way of expressing your views in General Chat in one way or another. It's up to you to find out how far you can go.

It's good of you to respond and write something so thoughtful and thought provoking. I hadn't thought about this forum in that way.

 

I have to balance a desire to offer a perspective that risks alienating a sub-section of those reading to the extent they find a way to take offence, against the most important thing, which is to protect my own mental health. And of course, the latter has to be more important, especially in these extreme times. That basically explains my position, and also why I've barely said anything for some time.

[MC Prussian]

28 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

It's good of you to respond and write something so thoughtful and thought provoking. I hadn't thought about this forum in that way.

 

I have to balance a desire to offer a perspective that risks alienating a sub-section of those reading to the extent they find a way to take offence, against the most important thing, which is to protect my own mental health. And of course, the latter has to be more important, especially in these extreme times. That basically explains my position, and also why I've barely said anything for some time.

Voicing an opinion always brings offense with it. It's being able to put the "fear" of offending people aside and stand for what you think.

Foxestalk isn't real life, the best one can hope for is to take some food for thought out of the discussions. You have to learn not to take it personal.

For me, partaking in discussions on here doesn't mean it's affecting my personal health, it'd kind of foolish to let it come that far.

 

Ultimately, comments on here can never replace a direct conversation in real life. I think that's why some folks tend to get a wrong or slightly wrong impression of one another.

For example, the political labels that have been attached to me lately are ridiculous, as they don't represent me as a person at all - the difficult part is not becoming (overly) personal when replying, take it on the chin and move on. People attach too much power to words on a football forum, sometimes it's best to take a step back and take a deep breath, then come back and continue enjoying the conversations.

[HighPeakFox]

12 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Voicing an opinion always brings offense with it. It's being able to put the "fear" of offending people aside and stand for what you think.

Foxestalk isn't real life, the best one can hope for is to take some food for thought out of the discussions. You have to learn not to take it personal.

For me, partaking in discussions on here doesn't mean it's affecting my personal health, it'd kind of foolish to let it come that far.

 

Ultimately, comments on here can never replace a direct conversation in real life. I think that's why some folks tend to get a wrong or slightly wrong impression of one another.

For example, the political labels that have been attached to me lately are ridiculous, as they don't represent me as a person at all - the difficult part is not becoming (overly) personal when replying, take it on the chin and move on. People attach too much power to words on a football forum, sometimes it's best to take a step back and take a deep breath, then come back and continue enjoying the conversations.

Oh I am not afraid of causing offence - I am afraid of people choosing to take offence, which is very different.

[MC Prussian]

30 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Oh I am not afraid of causing offence - I am afraid of people choosing to take offence, which is very different.

That's nothing you can control, guide or influence here. You are only responsible for your own actions, and not for people's reactions, especially on an online forum.

Words don't cause bodily harm. Don't take it overly serious, and you'll be fine.

[HighPeakFox]

8 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

That's nothing you can control, guide or influence here. You are only responsible for your own actions, and not for people's reactions, especially on an online forum.

Words don't cause bodily harm. Don't take it overly serious, and you'll be fine.

Wise words. But then, when I next get a ban, because someone got their knickers in a twist at something I said, I'll wonder why THEY took it overly seriously and I got banned.

[Izzy]

36 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Oh I am not afraid of causing offence - I am afraid of people choosing to take offence, which is very different.

I took offence at you saying this to me on Toddy's 'Goodbye' thread if it helps? "Being a 'raving leftie' doesn't make anyone sub-human or their opinion worth less Izzy"

 

No idea where you got the 'sub-human' or 'opinion worth less' bit tbh. I was merely stating all 3 posters are openly left wing and have all recently left the forum - which is a shame.

 

FWIW, I'd class both Buce and Lifted as good mates and they'd probably laugh at the 'raving left' comment as a term of endearment.

 

I hope you're not too afraid that I took offence though 

[Guest]

It's not what you say. It's who you are.

[HighPeakFox]

2 hours ago, Izzy said:

I took offence at you saying this to me on Toddy's 'Goodbye' thread if it helps? "Being a 'raving leftie' doesn't make anyone sub-human or their opinion worth less Izzy"

 

No idea where you got the 'sub-human' or 'opinion worth less' bit tbh. I was merely stating all 3 posters are openly left wing and have all recently left the forum - which is a shame.

 

FWIW, I'd class both Buce and Lifted as good mates and they'd probably laugh at the 'raving left' comment as a term of endearment.

 

I hope you're not too afraid that I took offence though 

Well, I was pleased it was you that 'took offence' Izzy, because I thought I might get a reasonable conversation as a result of it - I'm sorry the risk I took in trying to make a wider point caused you offence.

 

The problem isn't you, or what you said, so much as general perceptions idiots make - the assumption that being left wing is an extreme position in and of itself. You can take offence if you wish - but the caveat that they're raving lefties IS a put-down (meant with wit and good humour no doubt in this instance). If you're not left wing, or called left wing, then you won't know how grindingly annoying and wearisome trying to have a decent debate throughout your life can be when so many people (and I stress - I am not talking about you here) just make lazy assumptions and call you a commie, or a loony, or a weirdo instead of actually listening to what you have to say. You only have to look at what got posted after me in that thread (and got the thread shut down) to see how easily people can write off anyone with even vaguely left-leaning views as commensurate with Stalin. Imagine I responded to someone right-wing on here and tried to counter their point with an image of Hitler, and see how long my ban would be. There is a double standard applied to those on the left because our society is inherently right-wing, whether I like it or not. I don't get involved in Politics on here because there's just no point banging away at a series of locked doors.

 

So, no, if you took the inference that you consider those on the left 'sub-human', it wasn't intended that way. It was more to make the point that plenty of people are routinely (and one might argue, automatically) dismissive and conditioned to believe that anything left of centre is somehow dangerous, unpatriotic or a menace to all humankind, and this is the bias that @Toddybad was trying to address. I have a lot of sympathy with him. Maybe the 3 posters you cited all left because they felt treated less than equally, which kind of illuminates the point I'm trying to make.

Edited 12 May 2020 by HighPeakFox

[MC Prussian]

10 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Well, I was pleased it was you that 'took offence' Izzy, because I thought I might get a reasonable conversation as a result of it - I'm sorry the risk I took in trying to make a wider point caused you offence.

 

The problem isn't you, or what you said, so much as general perceptions idiots make - the assumption that being left wing is an extreme position in and of itself. You can take offence if you wish - but the caveat that they're raving lefties IS a put-down (meant with wit and good humour no doubt in this instance). If you're not left wing, or called left wing, then you won't know how grindingly annoying and wearisome trying to have a decent debate throughout your life can be when so many people (and I stress - I am not talking about you here) just make lazy assumptions and call you a commie, or a loony, or a weirdo instead of actually listening to what you have to say. You only have to look at what got posted after me in that thread (and got the thread shut down) to see how easily people can write off anyone with even vaguely left-leaning views as commensurate with Stalin. Imagine I responded to someone right-wing on here and tried to counter their point with an image of Hitler, and see how long my ban would be. There is a double standard applied to those on the left because our society is inherently right-wing, whether I like it or not. I don't get involved in Politics on here because there's just no point banging away at a series of locked doors.

 

So, no, if you took the inference that you consider those on the left 'sub-human', it wasn't intended that way. It was more to make the point that plenty of people are routinely (and one might argue, automatically) dismissive and conditioned to believe that anything left of centre is somehow dangerous, unpatriotic or a menace to all humankind, and this is the bias that @Toddybad was trying to address. I have a lot of sympathy with him. Maybe the 3 posters you cited all left because they felt treated less than equally, which kind of illuminates the point I'm trying to make.

I don't concur with society being "inherently right-wing", I'd like to think that as you get older and have more responsibilities (job, family, kids, etc.) more people tend to sway to the right - to the right of where they stood as a young adult. That doesn't necessarily make them "right-wing", just more conservative than they used to be. But the term "conservative" is relative.

A former Communist can turn conservative by becoming a socialist or social democrat. He'd still be on the left.

A social democrat can turn into a social liberal or libertarian, the question remains how far "right-wing" applies here.

 

"Right-wing" to me is a term for a rather extremist position on the political spectrum, and maybe it's been overused against its actual meaning. It has gotten some kind of a bad connotation over the past few years, thanks to a more extreme debate in general.

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, MC Prussian said:

I don't concur with society being "inherently right-wing".

I respect your right not to agree - and at that point I will say nothing more, because I disagree absolutely in this specific matter.

[Foxin_Mad]

Damn I didn't realise @Toddybadhad left. A real shame.

 

Utterly bizarre as a genuinely good poster capable of coherent and reasoned postings.

[Kopfkino]

23 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

Damn I didn't realise @Toddybadhad left. A real shame.

 

Utterly bizarre as a genuinely good poster capable of coherent and reasoned postings.

 

Toddy suffered from his past actions when once upon a time he had the propensity to be a massive twat and not take a step back. From the very limited insight we have, it seems at that point in time his life was not so happy and a bit of a struggle, and it usually came when he'd had a few to drink, whereas now things generally seem on the up, but unfortunately his past actions means he won't get away with what others will get away with. Whilst I think he's been unfairly treated, he might also have been a bit more careful.

 

It's a private forum to be modded however those that run it wish. If it was me I'd mod the more serious bits of Gen Chat in terms of quality of content rather than whatever the hopscotch approach is now. It requires people to take a bit of responsibility to keep a lid on it, not to talk at someone but engage with content (lots of people don't seem to respond with much cop to being challenged tbh) and accept views differ. Everyone's either gone a bit plain now or just produce ridiculous drivel intended only to incite rather than create discussion. I'd rather someone like Toddy be able to express considered views clearly and forcefully if they wish, I can't understand how anybody takes it seriously enough for there to be a need for people to be sheltered. I can go on Twitter to sample any side of the banal, echo chamber, toe-the-line 'insights'. 

 

Tbh all of the posters I prefer reading/look our for either usually instinctively have a well-reasoned differing view to me or have a strong preference for nuance over certainty so it's a shame when those go. When Toddy first went something was lost and whilst I wasn't much of a fan of Buce, and I had lifted fox on ignore, I can see that they added character. Tbh the virus chat is now largely circular, provides little insight and is wholly unstimulating.

 

[Foxin_Mad]

37 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

Toddy suffered from his past actions when once upon a time he had the propensity to be a massive twat and not take a step back. From the very limited insight we have, it seems at that point in time his life was not so happy and a bit of a struggle, and it usually came when he'd had a few to drink, whereas now things generally seem on the up, but unfortunately his past actions means he won't get away with what others will get away with. Whilst I think he's been unfairly treated, he might also have been a bit more careful.

 

It's a private forum to be modded however those that run it wish. If it was me I'd mod the more serious bits of Gen Chat in terms of quality of content rather than whatever the hopscotch approach is now. It requires people to take a bit of responsibility to keep a lid on it, not to talk at someone but engage with content (lots of people don't seem to respond with much cop to being challenged tbh) and accept views differ. Everyone's either gone a bit plain now or just produce ridiculous drivel intended only to incite rather than create discussion. I'd rather someone like Toddy be able to express considered views clearly and forcefully if they wish, I can't understand how anybody takes it seriously enough for there to be a need for people to be sheltered. I can go on Twitter to sample any side of the banal, echo chamber, toe-the-line 'insights'. 

 

Tbh all of the posters I prefer reading/look our for either usually instinctively have a well-reasoned differing view to me or have a strong preference for nuance over certainty so it's a shame when those go. When Toddy first went something was lost and whilst I wasn't much of a fan of Buce, and I had lifted fox on ignore, I can see that they added character. Tbh the virus chat is now largely circular, provides little insight and is wholly unstimulating.

 

I had a few battles with Toddy in the past but actually that led to a mutual respect, despite disagreeing on certain things. He was able to explain in a way that at least gave you an understanding of his reasoning which in some cases provoked thought.

 

I assume those past things are the reason I keep getting banned now, either that or someone is very sensitive.

 

The most recent thing a load of posts(some good discussion about approaches in different countries with @leicsmac were deleted and over a vague reference to the ones trying to political point score during the virus outbreak  not being Tories, not actually saying what group was. Yet another poster is basically allowed to call Tories over and over and still posts the same stuff today.

 

I think now it's done on a basis of if its reported by a certain person action is taken, if its other people its ignored. You have to wonder whether these actions and the perception that this somehow makes the forum better in someway is actually making it worse losing the posters mentioned. I dont see any arguments that recent actions are actually making the forum better unless it is done to meet the requirements of certain individuals agendas,  then maybe it is.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

Toddy suffered from his past actions when once upon a time he had the propensity to be a massive twat and not take a step back. From the very limited insight we have, it seems at that point in time his life was not so happy and a bit of a struggle, and it usually came when he'd had a few to drink, whereas now things generally seem on the up, but unfortunately his past actions means he won't get away with what others will get away with. Whilst I think he's been unfairly treated, he might also have been a bit more careful.

 

It's a private forum to be modded however those that run it wish. If it was me I'd mod the more serious bits of Gen Chat in terms of quality of content rather than whatever the hopscotch approach is now. It requires people to take a bit of responsibility to keep a lid on it, not to talk at someone but engage with content (lots of people don't seem to respond with much cop to being challenged tbh) and accept views differ. Everyone's either gone a bit plain now or just produce ridiculous drivel intended only to incite rather than create discussion. I'd rather someone like Toddy be able to express considered views clearly and forcefully if they wish, I can't understand how anybody takes it seriously enough for there to be a need for people to be sheltered. I can go on Twitter to sample any side of the banal, echo chamber, toe-the-line 'insights'. 

 

Tbh all of the posters I prefer reading/look our for either usually instinctively have a well-reasoned differing view to me or have a strong preference for nuance over certainty so it's a shame when those go. When Toddy first went something was lost and whilst I wasn't much of a fan of Buce, and I had lifted fox on ignore, I can see that they added character. Tbh the virus chat is now largely circular, provides little insight and is wholly unstimulating.

 

But there are so many of them that never get banned, maybe because they have views inline with the owner/mods of the forum.

[Mike Oxlong]

4 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

Toddy suffered from his past actions when once upon a time he had the propensity to be a massive twat and not take a step back. From the very limited insight we have, it seems at that point in time his life was not so happy and a bit of a struggle, and it usually came when he'd had a few to drink, whereas now things generally seem on the up, but unfortunately his past actions means he won't get away with what others will get away with. Whilst I think he's been unfairly treated, he might also have been a bit more careful.

 

It's a private forum to be modded however those that run it wish. If it was me I'd mod the more serious bits of Gen Chat in terms of quality of content rather than whatever the hopscotch approach is now. It requires people to take a bit of responsibility to keep a lid on it, not to talk at someone but engage with content (lots of people don't seem to respond with much cop to being challenged tbh) and accept views differ. Everyone's either gone a bit plain now or just produce ridiculous drivel intended only to incite rather than create discussion. I'd rather someone like Toddy be able to express considered views clearly and forcefully if they wish, I can't understand how anybody takes it seriously enough for there to be a need for people to be sheltered. I can go on Twitter to sample any side of the banal, echo chamber, toe-the-line 'insights'. 

 

Tbh all of the posters I prefer reading/look our for either usually instinctively have a well-reasoned differing view to me or have a strong preference for nuance over certainty so it's a shame when those go. When Toddy first went something was lost and whilst I wasn't much of a fan of Buce, and I had lifted fox on ignore, I can see that they added character. Tbh the virus chat is now largely circular, provides little insight and is wholly unstimulating.

 

The highlighted bits smack of intellectual snobbery to me 

 

Whilst I can learn from and reflect on what might be termed “quality content” I also find some of the drivel quite enjoyable. Life’s too serious to not appreciate the drivel

Edited 12 May 2020 by Mike Oxlong

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, Mike Oxlong said:

The highlighted bits smack of intellectual snobbery to me 

 

Whilst I can learn from and reflect on what might be termed “quality content” I also find some of the drivel quite enjoyable. Life’s too serious 

to not appreciate the drivel

As long as you, me, @Dr The Singh etc. are always here to drag the quality down with our drivel, the place will be just fine 

[HighPeakFox]

10 minutes ago, Izzy said:

As long as you, me, @Dr The Singh etc. are always here to drag the quality down with our drivel, the place will be just fine 

I'm offended by your drivel 

[Izzy]

5 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I'm offended by your drivel 

The beauty of this place for me is the wide ranging spectrum of different personalities and posters.

 

One the one hand you've got idiots like me, Oxlong, Dr Singh etc, and then on the other hand you've got intellectuals like yourself, LeicsMac, Kopf etc.

 

Such a diverse mix but all with the shared common love for Leicester City.

 

I think we probably all frequent the forum for different reasons and needs but as long as we all keep it civil, that's the main thing 

[Kopfkino]

1 hour ago, Mike Oxlong said:

The highlighted bits smack of intellectual snobbery to me 

 

Whilst I can learn from and reflect on what might be termed “quality content” I also find some of the drivel quite enjoyable. Life’s too serious to not appreciate the drivel

 

You've made the jump of quality meaning intellectually stimulating and drivel being not intellectually stimulating. It isn't really what I meant, quality is quite clumsy wording and everyone was just hyperbolic. 

 

No issue with the light-hearted stuff and the utter nonsense off-hand comments produced by some sets of fingers, it's more the people who aren't being light-hearted jumping into serious discussions with no desire to, or attempt to, discuss but instead just to be a **** or to impose and incite. I don't excuse myself of having been guilty of such either

[Guest MattP]

8 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Maybe the 3 posters you cited all left because they felt treated less than equally, which kind of illuminates the point I'm trying to make.

Lifted Fox was probably the most abusive poster we have ever had in GC, every post was littered with obscenities and abuse, usually directed at Theresa May and wanting the bitch to die etc etc, like @Kopfkino I had to just put him on ignore by the end.

 

Buce was a interesting poster but had his moments as well, he had some ludicrous conspiracy theories about right wingers, I do wish he was back on here though as you did want to hear from.

 

Toddy has a case but the other two certainly couldn't complain about unequal treatment no matter how you see society.

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Lifted Fox was probably the most abusive poster we have ever had in GC, every post was littered with obscenities and abuse, usually directed at Theresa May and wanting the bitch to die etc etc, like @Kopfkino I had to just put him on ignore by the end.

 

Buce was a interesting poster but had his moments as well, he had some ludicrous conspiracy theories about right wingers, I do wish he was back on here though as you did want to hear from.

 

Toddy has a case but the other two certainly couldn't complain about unequal treatment no matter how you see society.

It's funny how some people are completely different IRL to how they come across on here.

 

I met Lifted Fox outside the ground a few days after the helicopter crash and we walked around together and signed the book of condolence etc. He then sorted me and my lad out with tickets for the Man Utd game a few weeks later.

 

He was the most gentle, non assuming, quiet, well mannered young man you'd ever wish to meet. A million miles from the Theresa May bashing nutter he was on here.

 

There's nowt as queer as folk eh....

[HighPeakFox]

13 hours ago, Izzy said:

It's funny how some people are completely different IRL to how they come across on here.

 

I met Lifted Fox outside the ground a few days after the helicopter crash and we walked around together and signed the book of condolence etc. He then sorted me and my lad out with tickets for the Man Utd game a few weeks later.

 

He was the most gentle, non assuming, quiet, well mannered young man you'd ever wish to meet. A million miles from the Theresa May bashing nutter he was on here.

 

There's nowt as queer as folk eh....

If people feel unheard, and unheard, and unheard, eventually it has to find an outlet. Even today, I felt some of the most subtle points I made went missing. I won't be lashing out because, these days, I see myself coming, so to speak. But it is massively frustrating when you bump up against *insert reason here* that prevents people understanding, or being able to understand, or being willing to understand.

Edited 13 May 2020 by HighPeakFox

[Izzy]

5 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

If people feel unheard, and unheard, and unheard, eventually it has to find an outlet. Even today, I felt some of the most subtle points I made went missing. I won't be lashing out because, these days, I see myself coming, so to speak. But it is massively frustrating when you bump up against *insert reason here* that prevents people understanding, or being able to understand.

I think it's difficult to make ones self understood and indeed to understand others on here sometimes.

 

The interweb is a strange place and sometimes humour, nuance, sarcasm, witt or indeed seriousness can all be missed or misconstrued on occasion.

 

A lot depends on the posters mood in that moment and the mood of the other people reading it. There's so many 'miss-matches' because we can't read each others' energy and state.

 

It's no wonder people argue and fall out on a forum really but if we were all chatting down the pub, i imagine we'd probably all get on famously.

[HighPeakFox]

3 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I think it's difficult to make ones self understood and indeed to understand others on here sometimes.

 

The interweb is a strange place and sometimes humour, nuance, sarcasm, witt or indeed seriousness can all be missed or misconstrued on occasion.

 

A lot depends on the posters mood in that moment and the mood of the other people reading it. There's so many 'miss-matches' because we can't read each others' energy and state.

 

It's no wonder people argue and fall out on a forum really but if we were all chatting down the pub, i imagine we'd probably all get on famously.

Wise words - and you've just listed all the reasons I don't post in Politics!

[Guest MattP]

On 12/05/2020 at 22:13, Izzy said:

It's funny how some people are completely different IRL to how they come across on here.

 

I met Lifted Fox outside the ground a few days after the helicopter crash and we walked around together and signed the book of condolence etc. He then sorted me and my lad out with tickets for the Man Utd game a few weeks later.

 

He was the most gentle, non assuming, quiet, well mannered young man you'd ever wish to meet. A million miles from the Theresa May bashing nutter he was on here.

 

There's nowt as queer as folk eh....

It is bizarre how people are often so different IRL to the internet persona.

 

This stuff really does make us all go a bit bonkers I think.