Cash reserves & Operating loss

[Footballwipe]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

There's an argument though that running a cash surplus is a lack of ambition, so we either fine tune our model to follow teams like Dortmund and Ajax with heavier investment in the academy and look to sell a couple of players for big fees every few years and a conveyor belt of in's and out's to generate profit as well as limiting the significant wage increases for successful players who are coveted by other clubs and you want to keep (we've done this time and time again with Vardy, Schmeichel, Drinkwater, Mahrez, Maguire etc) or we continue to utilize our revenue to the maximum.

 

We definitely need to get smarter and I see a real missed opportunity in our reluctance to invest hugely in our academy to mirror the intentions of providing the best training facilities in Europe. We have some of the most lauded coaches operating our first team and yet the same dinosaurs in the academy that we've had since our league one and championship days.

No that's fair enough, though I'd say that I'm not sure we're quite at the level of Dortmund or Ajax yet. We're probably still in that level where an unstable season could see us hovering around the relegation zone. A couple of years of solidity under Rodgers will help elevate this, though succession planning will be critical to ensure we don't just untie anything that goes on.

 

We're going to be in an incredible battle with six other teams and likely Newcastle (though let's see that get established first) for top four, whereas other teams can fine tune their models because they're guaranteed UCL football (or qualifiers) every year.

 

It's inevitable, I think, that we become the "sell a marquee massively" club (Mahrez & Maguire suggest we have already.) but I agree about the missed opportunity and the lack of ambition we seem to show in our academy, who seem to slap themselves on the back when the odd rare player pokes through.

 

Maybe I'm just fiscally conservative, but with the volatility of the Premier League, increasing competitiveness for the European places and the earlier mentioned increase in player power, I don't want us to get caught with our pants down if the TV bubble deflates.

[Heymister2015]

This is why I’d sell chilwell

[Ric Flair]

28 minutes ago, Footballwipe said:

No that's fair enough, though I'd say that I'm not sure we're quite at the level of Dortmund or Ajax yet. We're probably still in that level where an unstable season could see us hovering around the relegation zone. A couple of years of solidity under Rodgers will help elevate this, though succession planning will be critical to ensure we don't just untie anything that goes on.

 

We're going to be in an incredible battle with six other teams and likely Newcastle (though let's see that get established first) for top four, whereas other teams can fine tune their models because they're guaranteed UCL football (or qualifiers) every year.

 

It's inevitable, I think, that we become the "sell a marquee massively" club (Mahrez & Maguire suggest we have already.) but I agree about the missed opportunity and the lack of ambition we seem to show in our academy, who seem to slap themselves on the back when the odd rare player pokes through.

 

Maybe I'm just fiscally conservative, but with the volatility of the Premier League, increasing competitiveness for the European places and the earlier mentioned increase in player power, I don't want us to get caught with our pants down if the TV bubble deflates.

Sadly it's very difficult to maintain that stance whilst trying to mount a challenge to be a top 6 side year on year because unless it's achieved there will be huge scrutiny on the way the club is trying to achieve it. Look at Arsenal, they spent years paying off their stadium with the viewpoint that as soon as they had done that would enable them to maximise their yearly revenue in recruiting the best players over and above other clubs that pay debt off at a slower and longer rate, yet they lost ground massively and they've become even worse in recent years.

 

We have shown in 2015/16 and the years leading up to that that money isn't the definitive cause of success but without it it's very difficult and the foundations and groundwork need to be executed with precision, which is much harder to do than trying to buy the best to compete.

 

I'd like us to not waste money and maintain a healthy progression without potentially killing ourselves in the process, there is certainly a balance we can find that can do both. We have a top class manager and assistants, we have some incredibly talented young players and we are soon to have some of the best facilities in the country if not Europe. CL football will give us more revenue but I hope we maintain the recruitment of younger players who will progress and increase in value rather than trying to kid ourselves that purchasing established and experienced top level players is any more of a guarantee to keep at the top table.

[Bayfox]

1 hour ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...exactly how would these new contracts look!!!!

Hopefully some sort of salary cap is agreed. But if not, a lower basic wage, more incentive, performance related. Sure they could all live off 50k a week across the board for example, then boost that income by clean, sheets, goals, assists, apps etc. 

 

There's no reason other than greed that the contracts ended up the way they did, they saw 1 person getting silly money so followed suit, at the cost of smaller clubs, now the big boys risk the same outcome, maybe it will shock them into action, as I say I doubt it, but it would be nice to think they could come up with a model that doesn't mean some clubs are spending almost all income on salaries.

 

But a salary cap wouldn't be the worst thing to happen.

[sacreblueits442]

2 minutes ago, Bayfox said:

Hopefully some sort of salary cap is agreed. But if not, a lower basic wage, more incentive, performance related. Sure they could all live off 50k a week across the board for example, then boost that income by clean, sheets, goals, assists, apps etc. 

 

There's no reason other than greed that the contracts ended up the way they did, they saw 1 person getting silly money so followed suit, at the cost of smaller clubs, now the big boys risk the same outcome, maybe it will shock them into action, as I say I doubt it, but it would be nice to think they could come up with a model that doesn't mean some clubs are spending almost all income on salaries.

 

But a salary cap wouldn't be the worst thing to happen.

...market forces....!!!

Do you really think your Uniteds and Liverpools are going to allow any kind of parity having got themselves in thier present positions.

[North Leeds Fox]

We essentially need to try and up our commercial revenue in line with the increase in wages. It appears wages have grown massively since 2016 but our turnover apart from one season hasn't. Until this is rectified, we will need to sell a player or two a year to ensure we can strengthen the whole squad as the wage to turnover ratio is unsustainable long term.

 

Our wages as a club will hopefully drop after king, mendy, slimani, diabate, kaputska etc are sold/released. Hopefully the CL money will assist that, but as much as we are hopeful that the maguire money has helped this years finances, we have also had to pay off puel, rodgers has been signed for 9m and his wages are high. 

 

I dont think we are in a terrible position at all as we have great owners and the figures dont reflect this year and the potential cl money, but may mean we have to tighten our belts and rely more than ever on picking up bargains in this window to replace our first team squad. 

[Bayfox]

29 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...market forces....!!!

Do you really think your Uniteds and Liverpools are going to allow any kind of parity having got themselves in thier present positions.

They can go play in a european league then

 

I understand the horse has bolted, but something needs to be done, because this virus is gonna show how close to collapse the house of cards really is...sadly you are correct tho and nothing will change.

[gw_leics772]

On 05/05/2020 at 11:37, Bayfox said:

Chasing the dream, but at what cost. Ok you couldn't really have foreseen this situation. But our wage to turnover % has been to high for a number of seasons now.

 

CL income and the spike in shirt sales and merchandise etc from the intrigue of us winning the title was great, but we need that on a regular basis to keep up those sorts of numbers, or we will have to continue the selling of one player for huge sums each year, how easy that will be once things settle down, no one knows.

 

The longer the game is shut down and not accessible to fans, the harder the clubs will be hit.

 

Also, has anyone considered we loaned the training ground cash against the TV income. That loss is expected to be total 50 million for our club according to some reports if we cant get the show back on.

 

McLaren's will want paying. Top may have to dig deep, whilst he watches his other business flounder as well at this time.

 

Not life or death, but shows how much football has come to rely on TV income and how much of that just goes straight in players pockets.

 

Long term this could see the game change for the better in terms of contracts and business model but right now some clubs are gonna end up in the shit 

A fair comment but, and it's a big but. I've been thinking. If too can subsidise us for the duration of the covid issue, this could be similar to when we went into administration and our players were too expensive to move on when we wanted to. 

And if that happens while we are on the up and most are on their way down or stagnating, this could work well for us. 

 

Every cloud and all that. 

 

[urban fox]

Clubs, players and agents are all to blame for allowing the greed and spiralling wages of top players. To make matters worse, the press also perpetuate this by constantly bombarding us, mostly speculatively, about what this or that players wages are, especially when talking about transfer targets. The higher a figure they can put on it, the more significant it makes any potential signings, therefore selling more papers/clicks. As soon as a player is linked with a top club they will speculate about how much their contract is worth. This of course suits their agenda in bigging up their darling "Big six" making out that only they can pay the wages and therefore get the best players (this is of course somewhat true as with any self fulfilling prophesy).  The clubs themselves will not correct the press when they grossly over inflate a players wages as it also helps to promote the myths. Players and agents rely on this too when negotiating, and no doubt will cite how much such and such a player is reputed to be on and then demanding parity etc. it is a self perpetuating viscous circle that has now spiralled out of control to the point where some players have actually priced themselves out of the market and are happy to simply play golf or sit on the bench and collect their millions rather than actually wanting to play the game if that means taking a pay cut, despite the fact that they already have more money than they could possibly ever spend in a lifetime.

We all know that the modern footballers wages are, at least in the PL, obscenely high but it would be interesting to actually see a few payslips/tax returns to compare the reality with the hype.

If the current situation does force many clubs to re-evaluate their wage structures then that can only be a good thing for the long term sustainability of a competitive league and the game as a whole. Unfortunately the clubs with the deepest pockets (such as those owned by entire countries, oligarchs and oil sheikhs etc) are likely to come out this even further ahead of the game than the rest and make the situation worse.