Fleecehold

[Blarmy]

13 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

Do you still pay the regular council tax in these areas?

I assume it would be a less amount if another organisation was maintaining some parts of the estate.

We do.

[Rob1742]

I own several houses with these service charges. I don’t put the costs of them onto any tenants, I take the hit as they are obviously charges that people don’t like and can cause issues. However it’s another cost along with a raft of others coming in that now make being a landlord a less desirable occupation. 

 

I think it was basically a way for councils to reduce their costs, but also long term business created for companies so you can see why they have been created. The councils would have enjoyed passing plans for building approval where they don’t have to mow the greens monthly or trim the bushes.  
 

For this to ever be reversed the councils will need to take back responsibility. Communities will need to rally around and councils will need to accept the costs. Will it happen? Not sure as the house buyers are made fully aware of their responsibilities when buying, so there will have to be some landmark case for all these service charges to fold.

 

Its very wrong though in my opinion, not because I have a load of these, but because councils have decided it is good for them to not have the responsibilities and have basically put an extra cost in the homeowner which previously would have sat with the council.

 

It will take the government to step in and sort this. At some point it will be a vote winner for one party or another to insist councils take back control. I think as I am writing that it must happen at some point as it really is an issue where some people pay to have their green areas looked after and others have them looked after by the council. This being the case, councils should reduce their council tax accordingly to estates where they don’t maintain the park areas. 
 

I am sure it will get sorted at some point, and yes the councils need to be careful as you could get situations like PPI where we are allowed to claim council tax back as we haven’t had the benefits that other estates close to us have enjoyed. Maybe an angle here. 

[Strokes]

I wonder if we (the estate) could buy out the company assuming it’s on a fixed term contract. Then employ a maintenance operative and have a sink fund. It would cheaper and no doubt more would get done.

[kenny]

1 hour ago, Rob1742 said:

I own several houses with these service charges. I don’t put the costs of them onto any tenants, I take the hit as they are obviously charges that people don’t like and can cause issues. However it’s another cost along with a raft of others coming in that now make being a landlord a less desirable occupation. 

 

I think it was basically a way for councils to reduce their costs, but also long term business created for companies so you can see why they have been created. The councils would have enjoyed passing plans for building approval where they don’t have to mow the greens monthly or trim the bushes.  
 

For this to ever be reversed the councils will need to take back responsibility. Communities will need to rally around and councils will need to accept the costs. Will it happen? Not sure as the house buyers are made fully aware of their responsibilities when buying, so there will have to be some landmark case for all these service charges to fold.

 

Its very wrong though in my opinion, not because I have a load of these, but because councils have decided it is good for them to not have the responsibilities and have basically put an extra cost in the homeowner which previously would have sat with the council.

 

It will take the government to step in and sort this. At some point it will be a vote winner for one party or another to insist councils take back control. I think as I am writing that it must happen at some point as it really is an issue where some people pay to have their green areas looked after and others have them looked after by the council. This being the case, councils should reduce their council tax accordingly to estates where they don’t maintain the park areas. 
 

I am sure it will get sorted at some point, and yes the councils need to be careful as you could get situations like PPI where we are allowed to claim council tax back as we haven’t had the benefits that other estates close to us have enjoyed. Maybe an angle here. 

Its a nice idea. However, the roads and drains will not have been built to adoptable standards so won't be taken on even if there is a landmark case. All those block paved turning areas at the end or off the sides of the main roads are usually unadoptable.

 

It is the planners in consultation with highways that decide how much of a scheme will be adopted but im not sure what criteria they use to decide where it starts/stops.

 

25 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I wonder if we (the estate) could buy out the company assuming it’s on a fixed term contract. Then employ a maintenance operative and have a sink fund. It would cheaper and no doubt more would get done.

This would be a good way to go and would be worth a discussion with the management company. My in-laws own a flat that is managed by the residents association and they are always doing works such as replacing roofs etc. They are proactive and have a vested interest in the property being well maintained.

[DennisNedry]

23 hours ago, Blarmy said:

My house is on an estate “ran” buy such a company. We had to pay £ 300 to them when we bought the house, and then around £ 300pa. We’re now selling, and the buyers solicitors requested the “standard management pack” in case it raised any queries. We had to pay £ 354 for the management company to send pdfs to the solicitors - pdfs that already existed and were not particular to our property.

 

£ 354. 

Wow mate, that would make me sick to my stomach. I'd be contacting the financial ombudsman, emailing Martin Lewis / the Mercury etc to try and get them named and shamed. Not that it'd do any good of course, but I couldn't take that lying down, daylight robbery at it's worst. 

[Buzzard]

Bumping this. Would be interested to hear how people are fairing 3 years on? @Blarmyand others?

 

We've discovered these charges by accident when looking at buying a 'new build' (actually 10 years old) freehold. No reference at all in the estate agent advert to estate management fees and no doubt wouldn't have cropped up at all until we'd paid out solicitor fees etc. 

 

Apparently the current owners were charged £140 this last year (first time they've needed to pay) but from what I've seen, there is absolutely nothing to stop these companies charging £1000 for example and saying tough sh*t, it's in your deeds, pay up or we take the house. 

Edited 14 August 2024 by Buzzard

[grobyfox1990]

Took me two years to extend the lease on a property, 999 year extension, which has at least solved one problem.

I have noticed residents are getting a lot more organised about service charges. They have always been a total scam, but now pockets aren't as deep, the pushback to the freeholder from residents is relentless. We have our local MP involved, citizens advice, and scores of residents making group/individual claims via the housing ombudsman and eventually small claims court.

This has resulted in one success of a £50k reversal of historic water charges, and a few wins coming up.

Would advise anyone dealing with freeholders to get organised and go through the system to reclaim costs that you think are not accurate. You have the right to see detailed invoices, procurement processes and results of work done.

The allocation of costs across estates is another easy win. Eg if your freeholder owns multiple blocks, hires a contractor on a group basis and simply splits the cost per block, you can appeal. An equivalent cost between a 150 bed and 50 bed block for cleaning is obvs not correct.

[Blarmy]

2 hours ago, Buzzard said:

Bumping this. Would be interested to hear how people are fairing 3 years on? @Blarmyand others?

 

We've discovered these charges by accident when looking at buying a 'new build' (actually 10 years old) freehold. No reference at all in the estate agent advert to estate management fees and no doubt wouldn't have cropped up at all until we'd paid out solicitor fees etc. 

 

Apparently the current owners were charged £140 this last year (first time they've needed to pay) but from what I've seen, there is absolutely nothing to stop these companies charging £1000 for example and saying tough sh*t, it's in your deeds, pay up or we take the house. 

I’ve since moved. When selling, the management company wanted £ 400 to pass the accounts for my property to the buyers. This basically involved emailing a zip file of pre-existing documents to the buyers solicitor. I refused to pay it and told the seller if they wouldn’t pay it I’d pull out. Fun times. 

[ajthefox]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/leasehold-reforms-become-law

 

Not sure what the exceptional circumstances are, I've no doubt some of these companies will do their best to find loopholes but this should help long term.

 

Quote

It will further ban the sale of new leasehold houses other than in exceptional circumstances,

 

I live in a block of flats and we are hoping to buy our leasehold at some point, this will make it easier and cheaper. We don't have a landlord so will be buying off the Crown.

[Buzzard]

On 05/04/2021 at 12:29, Bayfox said:

We are in a relatively new build. 6 years. Obviously the green space was the last thing completed so we have probably paid these fees for 3 or 4 years to a company called Greenbelt I think.

 

Ours equates to about £130 a year. We do get an annual statement showing each visit, be that for inspection, the mowing etc have to say during covid because we have been at home more they must come and do an inspection to the railings and play equipment almost monthly and they give you 12 months notice if the bill is likely to include and additional repairs, re planting etc. To be fair it is probably better kept that most the village parks etc. So I can't complain to much.

 

I do however fear a price hike at somepoint.

Are you still in the same home with Greenbelt? If so, how have the fees changed these last few years?

[Bayfox]

On 05/09/2024 at 23:33, Buzzard said:

Are you still in the same home with Greenbelt? If so, how have the fees changed these last few years?

Yes and I'll let you know if Jan when out next statement shows up if I've not already missed you wanting to know

[DennisNedry]

No

On 14/08/2024 at 11:11, Buzzard said:

Bumping this. Would be interested to hear how people are fairing 3 years on? @Blarmyand others?

 

We've discovered these charges by accident when looking at buying a 'new build' (actually 10 years old) freehold. No reference at all in the estate agent advert to estate management fees and no doubt wouldn't have cropped up at all until we'd paid out solicitor fees etc. 

 

Apparently the current owners were charged £140 this last year (first time they've needed to pay) but from what I've seen, there is absolutely nothing to stop these companies charging £1000 for example and saying tough sh*t, it's in your deeds, pay up or we take the house. 

We're still in the same house.

 

The Estate Management fees have remained reasonable-ish I suppose. Now £217 a year, up 5% roughly on last year.

 

I still feel aggrieved by the whole thing, but it could be worse.

[Buzzard]

On 24/11/2024 at 20:31, DennisNedry said:

No

We're still in the same house.

 

The Estate Management fees have remained reasonable-ish I suppose. Now £217 a year, up 5% roughly on last year.

 

I still feel aggrieved by the whole thing, but it could be worse.

We've moved in now so fingers crossed it never gets worse than feeling a bit ripped off.

[DennisNedry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c978jqvjzvlo

 

On the BBC this morning. It seems that the Labour government may do something about it, I wouldn't hold my breath though.

[Collymore]

The more people are aware of this the better, especially young inexperienced buyers. I got stung when I bought my first house. I was so focused on getting it because I loved it so much I didn't even consider the leasehold. It's not in the seller or estate agents interest to tell you why it's such a bad thing so the reality of it only hits later down the line. 

 

Some leaseholds are fairer than others (I've heard some horror stories where payments almost become as high as the mortgage payment!) but usually payments can start off almost insignificant but then jump to a ridiculous amount after so may years, sometimes decades. You have to read the small print carefully. 

 

Leaseholds definitely make it hard to sell, although you will likely get the inexperienced buyers that were in your position. 

 

You can buy your leasehold but this is often thousands. 

 

I can't believe that leasehold schemes haven't been scrutinised more.

 

They're bordering a scam.