Slow backwards boring football until we're losing

[Matt]

25 minutes ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

If sides sit back in a low block, you have to play through them either by passing or more directly. Passing it backwards and sideways for passages of play on end isn't necessarily going to draw them out recklessly. They'll just wait till a stray pass or mistake as we've seen. 

It's beyond me.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand the theory of what people say about it drawing teams out, I honestly do, but how often does it happen in reality?

 

It's so easy to play against, we've shown that ourselves in the past, but when you're not very good at it, it's obviously becomes even easier to play against.

 

Dominating possession doesn't often necessarily result in dominating the game but people get hung up on stats rather than what they see with their eyes.

 

Back in 15/16 we slaughtered and took the piss out of any club with self admiration for high possession stats, we were very pro 'It's what you do with the ball', now I'm not harping back saying why did we change e.t.c, we've added strings to our bow, we needed too, theres a time and place for all styles, philosophies and game plans but thats exactly the point i'm making.

 

Edited 6 November 2021 by Matt

[Duquesne Whistle]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

It's beyond me.

 

I understand the theory of what people say about it drawing teams out but how often does it happen in reality? It's so easy to play against, we've shown that ourselves in the past, but when you're not very good at it, it's obviously even easier to play against.

 

Dominating possession doesn't often necressarily result in dominating the game but people get hung up on stats rather than what they see with their eyes.

It does actually happen for teams that are good at it, we simply aren't.

I read enough of your posts to know you're not a fan of the football Man City play, but they do draw teams out and play around them. The keys are speed of passes, players comfortable on the ball and players comfortable under pressure. We don't seem to have any of that, certainly at the moment and you have to feel our woes will continue for as long as we keep doing it.

Before anyone replies with the transfer value of the Man City defence, I'm already aware..

[Guest454545]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

It's beyond me.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand the theory of what people say about it drawing teams out, I honestly do, but how often does it happen in reality?

 

It's so easy to play against, we've shown that ourselves in the past, but when you're not very good at it, it's obviously becomes even easier to play against.

 

Dominating possession doesn't often necessarily result in dominating the game but people get hung up on stats rather than what they see with their eyes.

 

Back in 15/16 we slaughtered and took the piss out of any club with self admiration for high possession stats, we were very pro 'It's what you do with the ball', now I'm not harping back saying why did we change e.t.c, we've added strings to our bow, we needed too, theres a time and place for all styles, philosophies and game plans but thats exactly the point i'm making.

 

It didn't work very well in 16/17 though, right? Hence your biggest-prize-winning manager being sacked. 

[sylofox]

You wont draw teams out playing this way. 12 teams are happy to play us home or away and settle for a point or a win on the break.

 

Most of the other 7 are better than us doing what we do.

 

Ffs we showed most teams how to beat us in 15/16 the same way we won the league. Even if they sit 2 banks of 4 deep if we hit them quick they cant settle.

 

Alternatively continue as we are and make it easy for them to get back and settle.

[Swalshed]

5 hours ago, Flappit said:

Kind of suggests that Lookman should have been making a run elsewhere to make space for a pass and draw the defender away, really... 

I see what you're saying, but a quick ball would've given Lookman more time and space. I'd rather see Lookman in possession and trying to solve that problem than Soy

[Matt]

4 hours ago, Guest454545 said:

It didn't work very well in 16/17 though, right? Hence your biggest-prize-winning manager being sacked. 

I'd say that was the start of the transition though, whether that be instruction from the powers above who knows, from what we've seen since and the insistence it sure looks like that way.

 

He was trying to change our style, he changed many things behind the scenes, it was all too much too soon.

 

So your (rhetorical?) question can't really be answered.

 

Edited 6 November 2021 by Matt

[sacreblueits442]

On 06/11/2021 at 08:07, Guest454545 said:

Liverpool under Rodgers in that title challenge season under Rodgers were the best counterattacking side in the league. I believe a good number of Celtic's goals were scored from Celtic defending corners and hitting on the break through Scott Sinclair. It's definitely something he knows how to do, but it's hard to counterattack when the other team sit deep and don't want the ball

...then again you are surely aware of the teams that would choose to do so, so you would select a team accordingly!!!

[sacreblueits442]

On 06/11/2021 at 09:48, Corky said:

We are still a good counter attacking side but if the opposition sit deep you can't play on the break. 

 

People need to move on from the title winning team and style.

...there are certain teams we know who are not going to come and "sit".. !!!

 There are teams who will come and get in our faces and press us. There are also teams who will come and "sit" and break on us when we mess up.

  You will know the teams that will require a different strategy in order to beat them, you just need to pick a team to do that.

[FoxyLeon]

20 hours ago, sylofox said:

You wont draw teams out playing this way. 12 teams are happy to play us home or away and settle for a point or a win on the break.

 

Most of the other 7 are better than us doing what we do.

 

Ffs we showed most teams how to beat us in 15/16 the same way we won the league. Even if they sit 2 banks of 4 deep if we hit them quick they cant settle.

 

Alternatively continue as we are and make it easy for them to get back and settle.

 

Which 12 teams are happy for a point against us?

[volpeazzurro]

22 hours ago, Duquesne Whistle said:

It does actually happen for teams that are good at it, we simply aren't.

I read enough of your posts to know you're not a fan of the football Man City play, but they do draw teams out and play around them. The keys are speed of passes, players comfortable on the ball and players comfortable under pressure. We don't seem to have any of that, certainly at the moment and you have to feel our woes will continue for as long as we keep doing it.

Before anyone replies with the transfer value of the Man City defence, I'm already aware..

Very true and like other styles of football, you have to have particular players that can execute them. From one very extreme to another, Barcelona absolutely required players with the ability of Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets and Messi etc to pull their style off and Wimbledon, with their bullying long ball style years ago needed Jones, Fashanu and the rest of the crazy gang with their size and mentality to do the same. 

 

In essence, a manager can only usually follow a singular style of play or philosophy if he has at his disposal the requisite players to execute it. In an ideal world you'd be able to play total football or several styles.

 

It is quite clear that we haven't got the requisite players to emulate the old Barcelona or current Manchester City, so why would you even try? Perhaps we have players that could more emulate a similar style of play to Liverpool with 4 at the back? 352 is not necessarily a bad system but you do need proper Wingbacks which we don't currently have, Ricardo, Castagne and Thomas are more similar to Liverpool's attacking fullbacks I'd suggest with a hard working midfield cover for their fullbacks should they attack.

 

It was interesting recently to hear Gary Neville explain how, when they used to play against a side playing 352, how he and his other fullback used to rub their hands together as with the players they had in midfield, with a tweak in tactics, it was so easy to overcome and subsequently explained how they did it.

 

Moving forward, it is therefore easy to see why, with the players we currently have at our disposal, how easy it is for the opposition to counter Rodgers 352 who has inadequate means to employ it. His insistence on possession and control, invariably in slow motion, therefore has to be a great boon to the opposition. Just because it worked against a very poor on the day Manchester United doesn't mean that Rodgers is a tactical genius and that the formation is the panacea to all of our problems. Yes, having Fofana back would be a great boost but the problems with the tactics employed would remain. Neither would it be a good system if it all went tits up just because a couple of players are subsequently out injured during the season as it's neither resilient or sustainable.  

 

There has to be another solution surely with the talent squad of players that we have. It's been their deployment for me that has caused the problems not their quality both in terms of tactics employed and the asking of them to do jobs they are not suited to. 

[fuchsntf]

This is just a rues..a sort of..

When Baldrich says that

 He has a cunning clever Plan....

 

We have tried 2 seasons of exploding

From the starting blocks..This 3rd season..we are playing the dumb and winged competitor in total disray...

 

We will hold..hold stumble..hold stumble..hhhooold,hold then let lose

The dogs of war...

 

Just like the phoenix we will come forth out of the ashes and triumph just like the season of our great Escape followed by the triumphant extasy of that 5000-1 history making event..We are just going to do it in one season this time.

Vardy is just readying himself to give more impus and storybook turns for his

Hollywood-blockbuster...

We had the... I Claudio chapter..

Now it's nobody knows how to party 

Like the Irish..

Rodgers over the Blarney-stone..

 

[Guest454545]

3 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...then again you are surely aware of the teams that would choose to do so, so you would select a team accordingly!!!

Or he does what other top coaches do and sticks to his plan with one or two minor tweaks. Klopp or Guardiola don't change their ideas based on the opposition. But they also have the very best players available, and that's the difference between them and Leicester. If you wanted a manager who changed shape and line up to accommodate the opponent, you should have stuck with Ranieri. That's how he usually manages.