Slow backwards boring football until we're losing

[hejammy]

We must have the most passes between CB pairings in Premier league history surely! It's absolutely dire! 

[Guest Lcfc82]

Just now, Mythyaar said:

West Brom in April, five months ago. We were superb that day though, for the full 90 minutes.

We were for the 1st half.

Apparently Brendan wasn’t happy with it though and gave them a bollocking at half time 

[Always Next Year]

Been saying this for I don’t know how long, to slow through out the team, to much sideways and backward passes, no one attacking just standing and passing the ball, no running into space for return balls.

Rodgers has killed our style of attacking football and turned us into a boring hard to watch team.

We will be lucky to finish top 10 if we don’t pull our socks up, regardless of injuries we have the players to pull this around, Rodgers just needs to select and play our best players and stop trying to please the second string players.

 

[wardyfox86]

27 minutes ago, Mythyaar said:

West Brom in April, five months ago. We were superb that day though, for the full 90 minutes.

Weren't we 3-0 up at half time and Brendan bollocked the players for not following tactical instructions?

 

Says it all. 

[Phube]

We were flying against Villarreal- until Wes got snapped… 

[TWUKO]

That west brom game and Sheffield United were the last time we dominated a game, ironically both now in the championship! Excluding Millwall we haven't won a game by more than one goal since then!

 

I'm all for this playing out from the back game but I really don't think our players are comfortable with it, we have players with great passing ability, but decision making is really poor. I always think the best teams that play from the back play quick 1 touch passes and work some really good triangles, but our lot seem to receive the ball, take several touches and look where to pass it before passing sideways or backwards! A lot of the time it's a misplaced forward pass straight to the opposition and then we're out of shape and all over the place or they press us really high up the pitch and we make mistakes or give away stupid corners, throw ins, free kicks or goals! I am getting sick of us pi**ing around with it at the back, if nothing else it's just boring. Most of the time we score it seems to be from break aways and quick passing moves, which our players seem really good at.

 

I really don't know what we're trying to achieve? It doesn't work and it's boring, get in our face and defend in numbers and you've got yourself 3 points and we'll generally gift then to you!

[leicesterseddon]

I agree that the West Brom at home last year was the last time we were really in control of a game 

 

Given that was ages ago, and they were crap, that makes me pretty worried

 

Our performance stats (chances created, etc) so far this season are horrendous. I’m not one to usually take notice of that sort of stuff but it does show something 

[5waller5]

11 hours ago, Mythyaar said:

West Brom in April, five months ago. We were superb that day though, for the full 90 minutes.

That was the game that BR was livid with the gung ho attacking 3-0 first half??

[5waller5]

10 hours ago, TWUKO said:

That west brom game and Sheffield United were the last time we dominated a game, ironically both now in the championship! Excluding Millwall we haven't won a game by more than one goal since then!

 

I'm all for this playing out from the back game but I really don't think our players are comfortable with it, we have players with great passing ability, but decision making is really poor. I always think the best teams that play from the back play quick 1 touch passes and work some really good triangles, but our lot seem to receive the ball, take several touches and look where to pass it before passing sideways or backwards! A lot of the time it's a misplaced forward pass straight to the opposition and then we're out of shape and all over the place or they press us really high up the pitch and we make mistakes or give away stupid corners, throw ins, free kicks or goals! I am getting sick of us pi**ing around with it at the back, if nothing else it's just boring. Most of the time we score it seems to be from break aways and quick passing moves, which our players seem really good at.

 

I really don't know what we're trying to achieve? It doesn't work and it's boring, get in our face and defend in numbers and you've got yourself 3 points and we'll generally gift then to you!

I think it’s a case of balance. The passing across the back line has the purpose of moving the opposition team about so that the gap appears for the forward killer pass.

 

BUT. We seem to miss those opportunities, or feel they are too risky, and continue passing along the back line.

 

The balance is wrong, we’ve become risk averse, and are very boring and passive as a result.

[Le Renard]

20 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

That was the game that BR was livid with the gung ho attacking 3-0 first half??

I never understood that response by BR, maybe the players took it upon themselves to ignore his instructions and go a bit more gung ho?

Edited 1 October 2021 by Le Renard

[5waller5]

2 minutes ago, Le Renard said:

I never understood that response by BR, maybe the players took it upon themselves to ignore his instructions and go a bit more gung ho?

 
Maybe, I guess we’ll never know fully.

? But it was one of the most enjoyable 45 minutes of recent seasons, and I thought we looked superb. Then realised how unhappy BR was with it - difficult to fathom why!! 

[Guest Lako42]

We currently have players playing a system they clearly don't believe in. Recipe for disaster. 

[Swalshed]

I'll pre-empt this by admitting I'm no football tactics expert, like some on FT. Just enjoyed playing the game, many years ago (not at any high level), and absolutely love watching The City.

 

My take on this is that the team seem to have lost that #fearless mentality in their play. If anything, we appear to have become #fearful   

 

So cautious and terrified of losing possession that they dare not make a telling pass, or dare to go past the defender, preferring to go sideways or backwards instead, because that way we don't lose the ball. But, we don't threaten the opposition goal either! It's paralysing our attack, until we go behind in the game and have to come out and play. 

 

As many have pointed out, this can be about confidence, but I also suspect BR is insistent on keeping possession stats high. 

 

James Maddison's performance off the bench in Poland was refreshing, because he was fearless, constantly demanding the ball, taking on his man and playing the risky pass. A stark contrast to his recent appearances, where I think he's seemed to be under so much pressure not to fail, or lose the ball. 

 

We have the most talented group of attacking players ever, but BR needs to find a way to let them off this tight leash and let them express themselves. 

 

Just my take on it. Thanks

 

COYB

#befearlessagain

 

[An Sionnach]

On 30/09/2021 at 20:54, Phube said:

We were flying against Villarreal- until Wes got snapped… 

Interestingly just before that  QPR gave most of our starting eleven the runaround with their fast progressive play.

[Foxxed]

It’s rope-a-dope but we’re the dope.

[nnfox]

On 01/10/2021 at 08:03, 5waller5 said:

That was the game that BR was livid with the gung ho attacking 3-0 first half??

Here's the link back to the match report including Brendan's post match interview. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56754992

 

It's proper weird. He says he wasn't happy with our first half performance (when we scored 3 goals), but was much happier with the second half and how we "controlled" the game (and scored 0 goals).  The interviewer also made a comment about Kel's form and Brendan finds it impossible to not criticise him.  Weird.  After this game we went on to accumulate 7 points out of a possible 18.  6 games that included 2 consecutive 4-2 defeats at home and a 1-1 draw with a Southampton team who played 80 minutes with 10 men.

 

What makes it even weirder is how Big Sam lavished praise on us, particularly the first half.  And remember, this was a West Brom team that had conceded 5 goals in their previous 8 games and had included fixtures against Man U and Chelsea. They went into the game against us on the back of a 5-2 win at Stamford Bridge and a 3-0 win against Southampton.

 

We absolutely smashed them, yet it is the most irritated I've ever seen Brendan.

[Matt]

16 minutes ago, nnfox said:

Here's the link back to the match report including Brendan's post match interview. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56754992

 

It's proper weird. He says he wasn't happy with our first half performance (when we scored 3 goals), but was much happier with the second half and how we "controlled" the game (and scored 0 goals).  The interviewer also made a comment about Kel's form and Brendan finds it impossible to not criticise him.  Weird.  After this game we went on to accumulate 7 points out of a possible 18.  6 games that included 2 consecutive 4-2 defeats at home and a 1-1 draw with a Southampton team who played 80 minutes with 10 men.

 

What makes it even weirder is how Big Sam lavished praise on us, particularly the first half.  And remember, this was a West Brom team that had conceded 5 goals in their previous 8 games and had included fixtures against Man U and Chelsea. They went into the game against us on the back of a 5-2 win at Stamford Bridge and a 3-0 win against Southampton.

 

We absolutely smashed them, yet it is the most irritated I've ever seen Brendan.

 

This is the thing though, the logic is by having all this possession we're 'controlling' the game.

 

Are we though, really?

 

Slow, sideways, backwards, laborious?

 

If I were the opposition i'd be saying have the ball, we rarely venture over the half way line, we might have lions share of the ball but we're being pinned back all the time, we're being pressured all the time, alot is made of our patient build up play the only teams whos being patient are the opposition pinning us back, waiting for us to make a mistake which we duly will and bang they're in, meanwhile we go no where forwards. Apparently the idea is we draw the opposition out they may be the case but we rarely go forward - certainly not until we're losing or chasing a game anyway, surely going forward would draw them out more, create more space, play the percentages with risk and reward.

 

People can continue to fool themselves in saying we 'control' games but it couldn't be further from the truth as far as i'm concerned.

 

I'm sick of seeing negative set ups and people being shocked by negative outcomes/results.

 

Any opposition must rub their hands together when it comes to playing us.

 

Edited 2 October 2021 by Matt

[nnfox]

9 minutes ago, Matt said:

 

This is the thing though, the logic is by having all this possession we're 'controlling' the game.

 

Are we though, really?

 

Slow, sideways, backwards, laborious?

 

If I were the opposition i'd be saying have the ball, we rarely venture over the half way line, we might have lions share of the ball but we're being pinned back all the time, we're being pressured all the time, alot is made of our patient build up play the only teams whos being patient are the opposition pinning us back, waiting for us to make a mistake which we duly will and bang they're in, meanwhile we go no where forwards. Apparently the idea is we draw the opposition out they may be the case but we rarely go forward - certainly not until we're losing or chasing a game anyway, surely going forward would draw them out more, create more space, play the percentages with risk and reward.

 

People can continue to fool themselves in saying we 'control' games but it couldn't be further from the truth as far as i'm concerned.

 

I'm sick of seeing negative set ups and people being shocked by negative outcomes/results.

 

Any opposition must rub their hands together when it comes to playing us.

 

When we pass sideways and backwards and the opposition allow us to do that, the irony is that it is they who are controlling the game, not us, even though we have the ball!

 

[LCFCCHRIS]

Think we've been spoilt by great shot conversion rates in the past, especially vardy, and iheanacho last season (we all know he has to be starting now). When we're not getting that kind of finishing or it drops to average level it seems we get shown up. No stats to back this up but at least that's what it seems like. 

[nnfox]

4 minutes ago, LCFCCHRIS said:

Think we've been spoilt by great shot conversion rates in the past, especially vardy, and iheanacho last season (we all know he has to be starting now). When we're not getting that kind of finishing or it drops to average level it seems we get shown up. No stats to back this up but at least that's what it seems like. 

We have been spoilt by having great conversion rates, but we're not creating any chances to convert, that's the worry.  This season, we've had 65 shots, the same as Brighton and Watford only four teams have taken fewer shots - Norwich, Brentford, Crystal Palace and (wait for it)... Spurs (who sit bottom of that particular table, 9 shots behind us).  At the other end of the table, Liverpool, Man U, Man City, West Ham and Everton have all had 90+ shots.  Liverpool have taken 141 shots, that's 76 MORE than us!

 

With the creative assets available at our disposal - Vardy, Iheanacho, Daka, Perez, Maddison, Barnes, Lookman and Tielemans, we should be creating way more, like, WAY MORE shooting chances.  The tactics are stifling.

[LCFCCHRIS]

2 minutes ago, nnfox said:

We have been spoilt by having great conversion rates, but we're not creating any chances to convert, that's the worry.  This season, we've had 65 shots, the same as Brighton and Watford only four teams have taken fewer shots - Norwich, Brentford, Crystal Palace and (wait for it)... Spurs (who sit bottom of that particular table, 9 shots behind us).  At the other end of the table, Liverpool, Man U, Man City, West Ham and Everton have all had 90+ shots.  Liverpool have taken 141 shots, that's 76 MORE than us!

 

With the creative assets available at our disposal - Vardy, Iheanacho, Daka, Perez, Maddison, Barnes, Lookman and Tielemans, we should be creating way more, like, WAY MORE shooting chances.  The tactics are stifling.

Fully agree with you, thanks for providing the numbers. 

[5waller5]

2 hours ago, nnfox said:

Here's the link back to the match report including Brendan's post match interview. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56754992

 

It's proper weird. He says he wasn't happy with our first half performance (when we scored 3 goals), but was much happier with the second half and how we "controlled" the game (and scored 0 goals).  The interviewer also made a comment about Kel's form and Brendan finds it impossible to not criticise him.  Weird.  After this game we went on to accumulate 7 points out of a possible 18.  6 games that included 2 consecutive 4-2 defeats at home and a 1-1 draw with a Southampton team who played 80 minutes with 10 men.

 

What makes it even weirder is how Big Sam lavished praise on us, particularly the first half.  And remember, this was a West Brom team that had conceded 5 goals in their previous 8 games and had included fixtures against Man U and Chelsea. They went into the game against us on the back of a 5-2 win at Stamford Bridge and a 3-0 win against Southampton.

 

We absolutely smashed them, yet it is the most irritated I've ever seen Brendan.

 I remember it well, it’s truly bizarre isn’t it!?

[Blue-fox]

I wonder if his bizarre reaction to this game has upset the players/ made them feel like they can’t attack as they did Because it’s a little bit of a coincidence that we haven’t played as well since. 

[OntarioFox]

The Zambians on Facebook are attaining Mahrez-levels of fanboy cringe, but they have been making a fair point - our midfield is wank right now.

 

Both Tielemans and Wilf are miles off their usual levels. All our service is going through predictable wide channels and we're losing the ball but then not winning it back like we would on a good day with Ndidi. Soumare, can't work his role out at all yet, but an occasional barnstorming run isn't enough to paper over his poor first touch and equally crap playmaking. Our over-reliance on wing play leaves us exposed down the flank, which leads to our slow defenders being turned again and again.

 

Sounds like Choudhury might get another go now with Wilf's hammy gone, and if so then good luck to him. We're putting so much pressure on a backline we all know is playing like crap, because our Midfield is playing passive, ponderous football. It's the main cause of our malaise for me, and if it takes Hamza doing a bit of headless chicken and breaking somebody's kneecaps for a straight red to inject some life into the middle of the park for us, so be it.

 

I think our general defensive displays might improve if our backline actually gets some bleedin' protection.

Edited 2 October 2021 by OntarioFox

[Fox92]

It's not even "until we're losing" is it. It's while we're losing also which is a problem.