Middlesbrough Post Match 1-0 Defeat

[Kinowe Soorie]

Enzo is still finding his feet as a manager, tiny blip in a long season. Keep the faith!

[Blanchflower78]

16 minutes ago, goose2010 said:

Only in our fans eyes it seems. Every manager we have beat has said they we are the best team in the league and rightly so at the top of the league. 

 

 

I think you'll find most say it before they play us (nothing to lose saying it and bigs up any result) and most have been dissapointed to lose to us saying they deserved more. I think that tells a more honest picture.

Not playing down the points on the board but we're level pegging with a side playing league 1 last season and very little cash. So much so they bought our 4-5th choice striker. So whilst many will cite our squad depth and quality at this level I'm just suggesting I'm not sure we've lived up to the hype the points were showing.

 

I'm talking about games such as QPR away where it took a worldie to beat bottom placed 10 man side amongst other laboured victories not necessarily the 2 defeats of late.

 

Was always about adapting to the system which we all accept, the further we go tho the players seem to be getting a little lost with it. 

 

 

[LCFCJohn]

51 minutes ago, guest123 said:

if you read any of my posts on here you'll see i certainly don't go in for the better fan nonsense, but we're never going to win every game, no one is, i'm just not going to look at my half full glass and think it's nearly empty which many people on here love to do

I think generally, there is just a lot of people on here who have no balance or perspective in their views, both ways.

 

Of course there are people who genuinely wait for the chance to moan and be negative but there are also people who can pick the one non-positive thing in a balanced post and pile on the person who has posted it.

 

I like to think personally, I try for balanced posts. It may default slightly negative through years of experience but I’ll try to comment positive and negative together but still get piled on sometimes. I find that more infuriating as the pessimists are just venting whereas the people who think there is nothing wrong or can’t accept everything isn’t always perfect, seem to go out their way to dig out others, from my observations anyway.

[Chelmofox]

Said it in the Maresca thread, but the way to beat us is to nullify the wingers and pray for that chance to come, which Borough did. With a back 5 and Winks, nullifying the wingers mean that we rely on KDH and Nacho for any quality in the middle. Nacho was useless, and KDH doesn't have the quality to be relied on as the only playmaker in the team. Our wingers aren't elite, and you can comfortably double up on them enough to be comfortable that KDH and Nacho are going to either not be in great positions or snatching at chances. If either KDH or Nacho are remotely clinical or make better decisions yesterday, we beat Middleborough easily.   If we have more cutting quality in place of Nacho / KDH then teams will be in 2 minds about doubling on the wingers, which will in turn create more opportunities for them. 

 

Unless we sort this problem out, teams will continue to exploit this. Teams in the bottom half with struggle to double up on the wingers and i back ourselves to always find a way (we just did this against QPR), but those teams in the top 8 can play us with some confidence now that they stand a chance.

[oxtonfox]

21 hours ago, Unabomber said:

You think enzo is another Rodgers? Seriously? 

in the stubbornness and rigidity department they’re both from the same school. But I think there’s sufficient differences between them. One thing Enzo has is the squad seems onside and they’re backing him, at least for now. He’s also very supportive of the team and protects them unlike Rodgers last two seasons. 

[Guest glasgowfox]

On 11/11/2023 at 17:16, Joe90lcfc said:

I’m hoping the bottle mentality doesn’t creep back in from last season, 

Why would it

[Guest glasgowfox]

Reality check.  Leeds were no better than us and we were better than Middlesbrough.....chill the wheels are not coming off.

[Wymsey]

Choudhury has cost the team quite a few times in this league alone.

If someone offered good money for him in January, wouldn't say no to selling him tbh.

 

 

[Chelmofox]

3 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Choudhury has cost the team quite a few times in this league alone.

If someone offered good money for him in January, wouldn't say no to selling him tbh.

 

 

Sorry, but that’s nonsense. 

[Phube]

18 hours ago, Basildon Fox said:

 

Once upon a time there was a manager who, with a team only half as talented as now, won the league with over 100 points and created a squad capable of winning the Prem.

 

Nobody questioned his plan b in the Championship as he seemed to have the answer for everything. He was a little bit mental but how we loved him.

 

I wonder what he could do with our current squad...

Did you forget to mention that that fairy tale manager had over 300 managerial games under his belt before the start of the season (of which he had had two full seasons building a squad to get out of the league)?

 

Compared with a chap on his 34th managerial game! 

[Pliskin]

4 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

Said it in the Maresca thread, but the way to beat us is to nullify the wingers and pray for that chance to come, which Borough did. With a back 5 and Winks, nullifying the wingers mean that we rely on KDH and Nacho for any quality in the middle. Nacho was useless, and KDH doesn't have the quality to be relied on as the only playmaker in the team. Our wingers aren't elite, and you can comfortably double up on them enough to be comfortable that KDH and Nacho are going to either not be in great positions or snatching at chances. If either KDH or Nacho are remotely clinical or make better decisions yesterday, we beat Middleborough easily.   If we have more cutting quality in place of Nacho / KDH then teams will be in 2 minds about doubling on the wingers, which will in turn create more opportunities for them. 

 

Unless we sort this problem out, teams will continue to exploit this. Teams in the bottom half with struggle to double up on the wingers and i back ourselves to always find a way (we just did this against QPR), but those teams in the top 8 can play us with some confidence now that they stand a chance.

Spot on I’d say. 

[The Doctor]

6 hours ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Man city don't lose twice in a row much either.

They lost 3 of 4 in all competitions in the two week spell leading into the international break. It doesn't often happen but it does still happen and the challenge is to see how we bounce back from it. Whether we spiral like the Rodgers champions league challenges or whether we then go on a massive run and smash it, like we did after the playoffs at Watford 

[Guest Basildon Fox]

1 hour ago, Phube said:

Did you forget to mention that that fairy tale manager had over 300 managerial games under his belt before the start of the season (of which he had had two full seasons building a squad to get out of the league)?

 

Compared with a chap on his 34th managerial game! 

Wtf does that have to do with anything?

 

He is good enough or he isn't. If he has a lack of proper experience then he shouldn't be managing us in the first place.

 

What a truly desperate take to justify boring football.

[Lillehamring]

14 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

A red flag to me is how abject we were after they scored. 83rd minute granted, lateish but did we even get near their box afterwards?

 

I think that fosse way article from just before the Leeds game made a lot of points that I hadn't really considered, the one about how there's never been more than a goal in our games before the 75th minute (Southampton excepted) and that we seem to have this obsession with keeping things tighter than we need to. We have the ability to blow some of these sides away. When you aren't doing that you always run the risk of something like that happening.

 

I still think we go up but bloody hell the last four games have some red flags.

We have to remember that this is a really new team, with few players having played together, playing a new system under new management, with a manager who has little experience of this league (none as a manager) - many people didn't expect us to be winning games until this time of year - that these games have been tight isn't something we'll plan for it's just the nature of the game, we're not a team that does more than it needs to, playing against teams that are on a damage limitation mission.

 

If you're worried just remember how many 1-goal games we won last year.

[Lillehamring]

7 hours ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Won loads of games by fine margins too. On fact all of them virtually bar southampton.

 

This isn't panic stations but if we lose the next two they'll be a lot of questions asked.

 

Long long way to go and hopefully shuts up some of the arrogant drivel that's come out of a small but noisy part of our fan base.

Fine margins are to be expected when teams come into the games with no intention of trying to beat us.

We've even seen teams go 1-0 down against us and then carry on with their timewasting.

[Gamble92]

I try not to come on here after a loss because it never makes me feel any better

[Lillehamring]

7 hours ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

It's not a sustainable way to win games, as we're proving. Need to find another way of winning than just grinding teams down.

13 out of 16 seems pretty 'sustained' to me.  As a tactic it should have been enough to get points from all the games we've lost - sometimes , though, it's not the game plan but the appication of it that fails.

[Lillehamring]

7 hours ago, Blanchflower78 said:

We have been a largely unconvincing runaway leader let's be honest. Points have perhaps papered over the problems. Some will disagree but very few times this season have we looked convincing for the win.

 

So perhaps we are seeing some natural balancing shift and the reality we are one of 3-5 decent teams at this level.

 

depends on how you define unconvincing - by and large we've controlled most games, and really just toyed with some opponents.

if you're looking for your runaway leader to be winning by 3+ goals every game, then you're talking about a very rare thing in this sport.

[Lillehamring]

7 hours ago, Blanchflower78 said:

I think you'll find most say it before they play us (nothing to lose saying it and bigs up any result) and most have been dissapointed to lose to us saying they deserved more. I think that tells a more honest picture.

Not playing down the points on the board but we're level pegging with a side playing league 1 last season and very little cash. So much so they bought our 4-5th choice striker. So whilst many will cite our squad depth and quality at this level I'm just suggesting I'm not sure we've lived up to the hype the points were showing.

 

I'm talking about games such as QPR away where it took a worldie to beat bottom placed 10 man side amongst other laboured victories not necessarily the 2 defeats of late.

 

Was always about adapting to the system which we all accept, the further we go tho the players seem to be getting a little lost with it. 

 

 

I'm sorry, but you'll have to dig out some quotes to back this claim up - 1 or 2 maybe, but most managers we've beaten will have been glad not to have been beaten by a truck load.

 

Ipswich, unlike us, have settled players and management, plus massive momentum from their promotion - we're matching them but coming from a totally opposite position.

 

QPR aren't as bad as their league position suggests and were playing for their manager's job, so not necessarily the easy game it might have seemed.

 

The players aren't getting 'lost' with the system, they're still learning it!

[Lillehamring]

5 hours ago, oxtonfox said:

in the stubbornness and rigidity department they’re both from the same school. But I think there’s sufficient differences between them. One thing Enzo has is the squad seems onside and they’re backing him, at least for now. He’s also very supportive of the team and protects them unlike Rodgers last two seasons. 

How can you judge enzo as stubborn and rigid - he's played 16 league games and probably hasn't even finished teaching the players Plan A, you can't expect him to have multiple systems all running this early into his tenure.

Think of it as being consistent and trying to reinforce his vision.

[Lillehamring]

3 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Choudhury has cost the team quite a few times in this league alone.

If someone offered good money for him in January, wouldn't say no to selling him tbh.

 

 

he was far from our worst player.

[Gamble92]

2 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

he was far from our worst player.

Don't forget whenever we lose its always an academy/Leicester born players fault for winning some competition to play for us.

[Number 6]

8 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

depends on how you define unconvincing - by and large we've controlled most games, and really just toyed with some opponents.

if you're looking for your runaway leader to be winning by 3+ goals every game, then you're talking about a very rare thing in this sport.

Yep. And people talk up our rivals:

 

Ipswich have won by 2+ goals 3 times. Leeds 3 times. Southampton 2 times.

 

We've done it 5 times. 

[Phube]

2 hours ago, Number 6 said:

Yep. And people talk up our rivals:

 

Ipswich have won by 2+ goals 3 times. Leeds 3 times. Southampton 2 times.

 

We've done it 5 times. 

I think we’re supposed to let in more goals to make it exciting though! 

[oxtonfox]

On 12/11/2023 at 20:43, Lillehamring said:

How can you judge enzo as stubborn and rigid - he's played 16 league games and probably hasn't even finished teaching the players Plan A, you can't expect him to have multiple systems all running this early into his tenure.

Think of it as being consistent and trying to reinforce his vision.

A lot of managers are stubborn, it’s a characteristic of them. But there’s a time to ditch Plan A, when you’re a goal down with 5 minutes to play.