League Cup 2024/2025 Thread

[The Horse's Mouth]

55 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

 

Again, as stated, speak to any West Ham or Leicester fan now and absolutely none of them will be saying ‘it’s all ok because we won a trophy.’ I have only heard city fans being shot down for suggesting they are ok with our current situation because we won some trophies. 

Of course we’ll all never forget the day out but I bet the average net happiness of Fulham, Brighton, Bournemouth and Crystal Palace fans is higher than West Ham’s over the last 10 years. 

That’s just not the case though, there’s a sense that we took advantage of our golden years and were able to cement our legacy even further with silverware, doesn’t justify the decline but winning trophies is the name of the game. If you’re sitting here saying I’d give the fa cup back for a sustained decade of mid table mediocrity then you’re off your trolley 

[grobyfox1990]

1 minute ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

That’s just not the case though, there’s a sense that we took advantage of our golden years and were able to cement our legacy even further with silverware, doesn’t justify the decline but winning trophies is the name of the game. If you’re sitting here saying I’d give the fa cup back for a sustained decade of mid table mediocrity then you’re off your trolley 

You are so detached from the average fan I see/overhear. You think we took advantage of our golden years and cemented our legacy?! Christ 

[bovril]

24 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Yeh i agree with you. I still go to city and dare say it, enjoy it too. I genuinely completed it in 2016 so now it’s just a pass time and not worthy of getting all worked up about.

But that’s not the mass market view as proven at matches. Everyone is so miserable. We wanted ranieri out a few months after we lifted the trophy lol. The iron forced moyes out a year after they were ‘soooooo haaaappppy’ about the conference league. I bet this time next year Howe will be getting panned by the Geordies and not one of them will be talking about yday. Football fans want it all and are evidentially not happy with a trophy lift now n then 

You have a point

[The Horse's Mouth]

19 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

You are so detached from the average fan I see/overhear. You think we took advantage of our golden years and cemented our legacy?! Christ 

We would a league and an fa cup, I’d say we took advantage of our high point, what would you have preferred?

[grobyfox1990]

4 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

We would a league and an fa cup, I’d say we took advantage of our high point, what would you have preferred?

I’m with you! I salute you. But the reality is a few months after the fa cup and charity shield was lifted the stadium was mainly Rodgers based rage. Just checked and Chelsea home, 3-0 defeat, was nov 2021 and everyone seemed to hate him then. Sunderland away was dec 2016 and most I spoke to after that game wanted ranieri out. Our trophies did NOT bring on years of joy, whatever anyone with rose tinted specs and nostalgia says 

[The Horse's Mouth]

7 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

I’m with you! I salute you. But the reality is a few months after the fa cup and charity shield was lifted the stadium was mainly Rodgers based rage. Just checked and Chelsea home, 3-0 defeat, was nov 2021 and everyone seemed to hate him then. Sunderland away was dec 2016 and most I spoke to after that game wanted ranieri out. Our trophies did NOT bring on years of joy, whatever anyone with rose tinted specs and nostalgia says 

Well you could argue the fa cup was the Hollywood ending if you will, but we still made a European semi final the season after. Things got toxic that season, but we had a good 3 years where we even ranked as amongst the happiest fans in the league. Those clubs you mentioned ask any of their fans and they’d give their left bollock to swap our decade with theirs. Like I don’t really get your argument, are you basically say you wish we’d been Crystal Palace finishing 12th every season?

Edited 17 March by The Horse's Mouth

[grobyfox1990]

7 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Well you could argue the fa cup was the Hollywood ending if you will, but we still made a European semi final the season after. Things got toxic that season, but we had a good 3 years where we even ranked as amongst the happiest fans in the league. Those clubs you mentioned ask any of their fans and they’d give their left bollock to swap our decade with theirs. Like I don’t really get your argument, are you basically say you wish we’d been Crystal Palace finishing 12th every season?

My argument is Crystal clear. Winning trophies does not make football fans happy for anything longer than a few months.

The average net happiness level of palace, Brighton, Fulham, Bournemouth fans is prob higher than ours and West Ham’s over the last 10 years. Given we were miserable 6 months after winning the league and we’ve been miserable for at least 3 years and counting I’m not saying anything shocking. I’m not saying I’d swap to be them. No need to read anything more into what I’m saying than what I’m saying. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

3 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

My argument is Crystal clear. Winning trophies does not make football fans happy for anything longer than a few months.

The average net happiness level of palace, Brighton, Fulham, Bournemouth fans is prob higher than ours and West Ham’s over the last 10 years. Given we were miserable 6 months after winning the league and we’ve been miserable for at least 3 years and counting I’m not saying anything shocking. I’m not saying I’d swap to be them. No need to read anything more into what I’m saying than what I’m saying. 

so Fulham who’ve probably been in the championship more in that decade and have had about 2 relegations, palace who largely stable but fanbase were complaining for ages around the football they were watching. Brighton and Bournemouth maybe, they are effectively league one clubs in their best era so it’s a fair enough argument, their barometer to be “happy” is far lower than ours and if you compare it success wise, Brighton have had what 2 top half finishes? Have Bournemouth even finished top half? And they’ve been relegated with two years out.Does feel like you’re hand picking the clubs who have done well this season and just ignoring the history of the past decade tbh. Trophies are about the memories, it’s not meant to be a happiness drug for a decade, it’s a piece of history that’ll live on with the club for decades to come, not finishing 5th in the premier league.

[grobyfox1990]

15 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

so Fulham who’ve probably been in the championship more in that decade and have had about 2 relegations, palace who largely stable but fanbase were complaining for ages around the football they were watching. Brighton and Bournemouth maybe, they are effectively league one clubs in their best era so it’s a fair enough argument, their barometer to be “happy” is far lower than ours and if you compare it success wise, Brighton have had what 2 top half finishes? Have Bournemouth even finished top half? And they’ve been relegated with two years out.Does feel like you’re hand picking the clubs who have done well this season and just ignoring the history of the past decade tbh. Trophies are about the memories, it’s not meant to be a happiness drug for a decade, it’s a piece of history that’ll live on with the club for decades to come, not finishing 5th in the premier league.

Yeh good point. Maybe I’m displaying recency bias with those clubs. 
Its meant to be a piece of history logically, but that’s not reality. I hear far more complaints about our missed 4th place finishes than compliments about our fa cup win. Or maybe I’m just surrounded by very miserable people and most city fans are like you and realistic 

[Corky]

Trophies are essential in shaping the club's history and tradition but not relevant on the day-to-day existence. You will always remember those days but it doesn't mean that the current season can be excused or written off or we should accept never attempting to get back there because that is our lot.

[The Horse's Mouth]

10 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Yeh good point. Maybe I’m displaying recency bias with those clubs. 
Its meant to be a piece of history logically, but that’s not reality. I hear far more complaints about our missed 4th place finishes than compliments about our fa cup win. Or maybe I’m just surrounded by very miserable people and most city fans are like you and realistic 

Thing is though I guarantee it’d have been the opposite had we got top 4 and bottled another fa cup final. Most football fans usually look at what could’ve been rather than what’s happened. People see top 4 as what would’ve took us to the next level which tbh I see as a bit of a fantasy or contribute that as the start of the rapid decline, so it’s very easy to say now what if.

[bovril]

I suppose it comes down to what is the point of competing if not to win something. One thing I like about American sporting culture is there is the expectation that every club, with a few years of good decisions, can compete for a title. Obviously association football is structured very ddifferently but it is quite absurd really that many clubs are expected to prioritise basically finishing midtable over competing to win a trophy at the end of the season. 

Edited 18 March by bovril

[StanSP]

2 hours ago, bovril said:

One thing I like about American sporting culture is there is the expectation that every club, with a few years of good decisions, can compete for a title

They benefit from never having relegation though... 

[bovril]

16 minutes ago, StanSP said:

They benefit from never having relegation though... 

Very true. Like I said the structure is totally different so it's hard to compare. But it's a pretty poor reflection on modern elite football that treading water in the top league is seen as a higher priority than winning cups, just for financial reasons. 

[Sir Steve Howard]

18 hours ago, StanSP said:

They benefit from never having relegation though... 

No relegation renders American sport as forever inferior. Think how many pointless games they must have over the baseball season ffs

[bovril]

On the subject of trophies vs league position, and interesting list on the Guardian today:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/mar/19/big-teams-havent-won-major-trophy-for-at-least-10-years-the-knowledge

[Stadt]

30 minutes ago, bovril said:

On the subject of trophies vs league position, and interesting list on the Guardian today:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/mar/19/big-teams-havent-won-major-trophy-for-at-least-10-years-the-knowledge

European trophies are a crap proxy for club size in this context.

 

Ipswich and Aberdeen are at best medium-sized.

[Chris_OGrady]

The FA cup win was a strange one. Whilst I could never have imagined us winning the FA Cup pre winning the league, I still feel like I was robbed of arguably the best individual day out as a Leicester fan. 

[Fox92]

21 hours ago, bovril said:

On the subject of trophies vs league position, and interesting list on the Guardian today:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/mar/19/big-teams-havent-won-major-trophy-for-at-least-10-years-the-knowledge

Personally I would say Villa and Everton are the biggest in this Country without recent success now. 

[bovril]

7 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Personally I would say Villa and Everton are the biggest in this Country without recent success now. 

Agreed. Only two league cup wins in 43 years for Villa. 

[LCFCJohn]

On 17/03/2025 at 20:41, grobyfox1990 said:

 

Again, as stated, speak to any West Ham or Leicester fan now and absolutely none of them will be saying ‘it’s all ok because we won a trophy.’ I have only heard city fans being shot down for suggesting they are ok with our current situation because we won some trophies. 

Of course we’ll all never forget the day out but I bet the average net happiness of Fulham, Brighton, Bournemouth and Crystal Palace fans is higher than West Ham’s over the last 10 years. 

Actually, a far too higher proportion of our fanbase are of just this mindset! It’s seems to be just a minority of our fanbase who think the decline is unacceptable sadly.

[LCFCJohn]

On 17/03/2025 at 22:11, grobyfox1990 said:

I’m with you! I salute you. But the reality is a few months after the fa cup and charity shield was lifted the stadium was mainly Rodgers based rage. Just checked and Chelsea home, 3-0 defeat, was nov 2021 and everyone seemed to hate him then. Sunderland away was dec 2016 and most I spoke to after that game wanted ranieri out. Our trophies did NOT bring on years of joy, whatever anyone with rose tinted specs and nostalgia says 

Worded like this makes more sense and I get what you are saying. I think though, that is more due to us being the ultimate bipolar club. 
 

If we had won the league and been sitting in 10th/12th, winning some and losing some, I doubt anyone would have been bothered. We certainly didn’t expect to be at the top again and had the CL campaign. We lost something like 6 on the trot without scoring didn’t we after the new year? And we in the bottom 3. That’s going to be grim for any fan based no matter what they have recently done. Similarly we were awful following the FA Cup win.

 

I reckon had we been even just steady following those achievements, it would have been different.