US Presidential Election 2024

[Koke]

Trump already hates NATO and wants to pull out. 

[st albans fox]

19 minutes ago, Koke said:

Trump already hates NATO and wants to pull out. 

He doesn’t 

he just wants the rest of the members to pay more so the states can (not unreasonably) pay less

 

 

[ClaphamFox]

12 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

He doesn’t 

he just wants the rest of the members to pay more so the states can (not unreasonably) pay less

 

 

Yep. His claim that other NATO members have been freeloading off the US is one of his very few reasoned and fact-based opinions. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

58 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Dow up 3.6% 

which market was up 10%?

The company I work for, that would have for sure had a decent idea what was happening today and lots of vested interest.

[Jattdogg]

2 hours ago, Otis said:

You'd have my vote.

Merci!

 

26 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Yep. His claim that other NATO members have been freeloading off the US is one of his very few reasoned and fact-based opinions. 

We are one of them. Granted,  Canada doesn't go around causing issues everywhere like the yanks but we aren't at that 2% spending he wanted.  Trump isnt going to be happy with Trudeau and suspect we may see tariff wars on some things. Might use that as a threat to renegotiate the trade agreement with us amd Mexico etc.

 

To be fair if we committed to 2% we should be paying that minimum.

 

End of the day, he won and everyone has to learn to manage it over the next 4 years.

 

[Foxdiamond]

13 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

Merci!

 

We are one of them. Granted,  Canada doesn't go around causing issues everywhere like the yanks but we aren't at that 2% spending he wanted.  Trump isnt going to be happy with Trudeau and suspect we may see tariff wars on some things. Might use that as a threat to renegotiate the trade agreement with us amd Mexico etc.

 

To be fair if we committed to 2% we should be paying that minimum.

 

End of the day, he won and everyone has to learn to manage it over the next 4 years.

 

I thought we are just over the 2% (UK) on defence and one of the higher overall contributors. Having said that I think we need to spend more.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Foxdiamond said:

I thought we are just over the 2% (UK) on defence and one of the higher overall contributors. Having said that I think we need to spend more.

Well, given Trump will stop all conflict with Russia by giving Putin whatever he wants when he wants it, surely there's no need to spend more on military budgets.

[leicsmac]

"Over the last few weeks and through Election Day, millions of Americans cast their votes – not just for president, but for leaders at every level. Now the results are in, and we want to congratulate President Trump and Senator Vance on their victory.
 
This is obviously not the outcome we had hoped for, given our profound disagreements with the Republican ticket on a whole host of issues. But living in a democracy is about recognizing that our point of view won’t always win out, and being willing to accept the peaceful transfer of power.
 
Michelle and I could not be prouder of Vice President Harris and Governor Walz – two extraordinary public servants who ran a remarkable campaign. And we will always be grateful to the staff and volunteers who poured their heart and soul into electing public servants they truly believed in.
 
As I said on the campaign trail, America has been through a lot over the last few years – from a historic pandemic and price hikes resulting from the pandemic, to rapid change and the feeling a lot of folks have that, no matter how hard they work, treading water is the best they can do. Those conditions have created headwinds for democratic incumbents around the world, and last night showed that America is not immune.
 
The good news is that these problems are solvable – but only if we listen to each other, and only if we abide by the core constitutional principles and democratic norms that made this country great.
 
In a country as big and diverse as ours, we won’t always see eye-to-eye on everything. But progress requires us to extend good faith and grace – even to people with whom we deeply disagree. That’s how we’ve come this far, and it’s how we’ll keep building a country that is more fair and more just, more equal and more free."

 

Barack Obama.

 

... how did the US go from that to Trump?

[Foxdiamond]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Well, given Trump will stop all conflict with Russia by giving Putin whatever he wants when he wants it, surely there's no need to spend more on military budgets.

Be interesting if say all Nato agreed to 3% plus if that would soften Trump on the freeloading argument 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Be interesting if say all Nato agreed to 3% plus if that would soften Trump on the freeloading argument 

Curious as to what the quid pro quo would be for the members then, though, other than soothing the man's gargantuan ego.

[Foxdiamond]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Curious as to what the quid pro quo would be for the members then, though, other than soothing the man's gargantuan ego.

Leaving Trump aside for a moment I think it has been easy to ignore increased defence spending in the past

[Jattdogg]

59 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

I thought we are just over the 2% (UK) on defence and one of the higher overall contributors. Having said that I think we need to spend more.

I was talking about Canada not UK.  It's a shame that Canada isn't pulling their weight i am embarrassed by it a bit.

[Jattdogg]

55 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

"Over the last few weeks and through Election Day, millions of Americans cast their votes – not just for president, but for leaders at every level. Now the results are in, and we want to congratulate President Trump and Senator Vance on their victory.
 
This is obviously not the outcome we had hoped for, given our profound disagreements with the Republican ticket on a whole host of issues. But living in a democracy is about recognizing that our point of view won’t always win out, and being willing to accept the peaceful transfer of power.
 
Michelle and I could not be prouder of Vice President Harris and Governor Walz – two extraordinary public servants who ran a remarkable campaign. And we will always be grateful to the staff and volunteers who poured their heart and soul into electing public servants they truly believed in.
 
As I said on the campaign trail, America has been through a lot over the last few years – from a historic pandemic and price hikes resulting from the pandemic, to rapid change and the feeling a lot of folks have that, no matter how hard they work, treading water is the best they can do. Those conditions have created headwinds for democratic incumbents around the world, and last night showed that America is not immune.
 
The good news is that these problems are solvable – but only if we listen to each other, and only if we abide by the core constitutional principles and democratic norms that made this country great.
 
In a country as big and diverse as ours, we won’t always see eye-to-eye on everything. But progress requires us to extend good faith and grace – even to people with whom we deeply disagree. That’s how we’ve come this far, and it’s how we’ll keep building a country that is more fair and more just, more equal and more free."

 

Barack Obama.

 

... how did the US go from that to Trump?

Miss the way Obama carries himself and talks. Can't say he was all that and a bag of chips as a president policy wise but the man can nail a speech and make you feel like you can do anything lol.

[foxile5]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

"Over the last few weeks and through Election Day, millions of Americans cast their votes – not just for president, but for leaders at every level. Now the results are in, and we want to congratulate President Trump and Senator Vance on their victory.
 
This is obviously not the outcome we had hoped for, given our profound disagreements with the Republican ticket on a whole host of issues. But living in a democracy is about recognizing that our point of view won’t always win out, and being willing to accept the peaceful transfer of power.
 
Michelle and I could not be prouder of Vice President Harris and Governor Walz – two extraordinary public servants who ran a remarkable campaign. And we will always be grateful to the staff and volunteers who poured their heart and soul into electing public servants they truly believed in.
 
As I said on the campaign trail, America has been through a lot over the last few years – from a historic pandemic and price hikes resulting from the pandemic, to rapid change and the feeling a lot of folks have that, no matter how hard they work, treading water is the best they can do. Those conditions have created headwinds for democratic incumbents around the world, and last night showed that America is not immune.
 
The good news is that these problems are solvable – but only if we listen to each other, and only if we abide by the core constitutional principles and democratic norms that made this country great.
 
In a country as big and diverse as ours, we won’t always see eye-to-eye on everything. But progress requires us to extend good faith and grace – even to people with whom we deeply disagree. That’s how we’ve come this far, and it’s how we’ll keep building a country that is more fair and more just, more equal and more free."

 

Barack Obama.

 

... how did the US go from that to Trump?

I am not advocating for Trump. I do not support his brand of politics. I'm not a trump man. 

 

With that caveat writ large. 

 

The American working class have been told if you disagree with immigration you're a racist and if you don't subscribe to an extreme view of gender politics you're a bigot.

 

The left have eaten their own tail with certain political stances that have alienated their core vote. The moderate has been left with a choice that has forced them right. A subsection of a massive society has been prioritised (and I am not saying I disagree) that has left the undecided the deciding factor.

[foxile5]

It really isn't too much to ask that immigration and discussion therein isn't considered right wing. 

 

A big failure of the the American left is to not consider that.

[foxile5]

And, again, it's worth outlining that I don't agree with the politics of Trump. 

 

However - to impact change you need to be in power. To be in power you need to get the vote. To get the vote you need to appeal to the people.

 

The American left failed at that point. Folk don't want to be told how to think and that was something that let Harris down in the end. Appeal to the base first and then change from within. Do not rely on saying 'orange man bad cofefe' and think that'll do. 

 

This was a real missed opportunity.

[Foxdiamond]

20 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

I was talking about Canada not UK.  It's a shame that Canada isn't pulling their weight i am embarrassed by it a bit.

Yes sorry I realised that and is why I added UK to my post. Hopefully Canada will step up soon.

[The Horse's Mouth]

7 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

It really isn't too much to ask that immigration and discussion therein isn't considered right wing. 

 

A big failure of the the American left is to not consider that.

The left all over really,  Europe increasingly going to the right now and the demographics of being going to the right is incredible especially amongst the young and the big thing is not addressing key issues that are most important to most of the population. Starmer being an outlier, but I think that election was more utter rejection of the tories rather than Starmers actual policies and is he didn’t really reveal any

[foxile5]

'Yeah but he's an idiot' 

 

That has never played in an American market. Why would you ever lean on that as a gambit? 

 

Why not -

 

Tough on illegal immigration

Harder on unpaid tax 

More support for the worker 

 

All nicely vague and evidencible. Get the swing votes on side and seize power. Left wing politics done right.

[foxile5]

1 minute ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

The left all over really,  Europe increasingly going to the right now and the demographics of being going to the right is incredible especially amongst the young and the big thing is not addressing key issues that are most important to most of the population. Starmer being an outlier, but I think that election was more utter rejection of the tories rather than Starmers actual policies and is he didn’t really reveal any

Most voting people want to know that borders are being policed. 

 

That's not to say most people I know think that but most voters do and therefore most votes do. 

 

Play the hand you're dealt and operate after. There's an apathy in the VOTING POPULATION that indicates you should lean into that for the power. Change starts when you're in.

[Jattdogg]

5 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Yes sorry I realised that and is why I added UK to my post. Hopefully Canada will step up soon.

Not sure I  can accept the sorry as a means of "transition" to a better space between you and I. Protest time. Lol.

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

"Over the last few weeks and through Election Day, millions of Americans cast their votes – not just for president, but for leaders at every level. Now the results are in, and we want to congratulate President Trump and Senator Vance on their victory.
 
This is obviously not the outcome we had hoped for, given our profound disagreements with the Republican ticket on a whole host of issues. But living in a democracy is about recognizing that our point of view won’t always win out, and being willing to accept the peaceful transfer of power.
 
Michelle and I could not be prouder of Vice President Harris and Governor Walz – two extraordinary public servants who ran a remarkable campaign. And we will always be grateful to the staff and volunteers who poured their heart and soul into electing public servants they truly believed in.
 
As I said on the campaign trail, America has been through a lot over the last few years – from a historic pandemic and price hikes resulting from the pandemic, to rapid change and the feeling a lot of folks have that, no matter how hard they work, treading water is the best they can do. Those conditions have created headwinds for democratic incumbents around the world, and last night showed that America is not immune.
 
The good news is that these problems are solvable – but only if we listen to each other, and only if we abide by the core constitutional principles and democratic norms that made this country great.
 
In a country as big and diverse as ours, we won’t always see eye-to-eye on everything. But progress requires us to extend good faith and grace – even to people with whom we deeply disagree. That’s how we’ve come this far, and it’s how we’ll keep building a country that is more fair and more just, more equal and more free."

 

Barack Obama.

 

... how did the US go from that to Trump?

Not sure the over glorification on a war criminal quite makes the point you’re looking for.

[foxile5]

44 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Not sure the over glorification on a war criminal quite makes the point you’re looking for.

Herein is an issue. You're reducing a massive issue into a polarised point. 

 

War criminal he may be - he's still influential. 

 

If you trim the leaf you still have the branch. The problem is, and has been for some time, the political approach and not the political. 

 

That isn't to say I know how to fix it but I do know that calling Obama a criminal and Trump an orange bad man only serves to reposition the issue.

[foxile5]

I also know it's so ****ing funny too 

 

[fox_favourite]

Excuse my ignorance as I've always struggled with following the political side of life, especially abroad. But a genuine question, taking the emotional side of things out the equation, did Trump do anything memorable that was actually a good thing for the people of the US in his last presidential term?

 

From what I see on the news snippets, they seem to always focus on what he was doing, e.g. closing roads, and venues for his own gratification. (Golf course visit being one), like a pantomime villain almost (which he doesn't help himself with, I have to say)

 

I really can't stand him as a person, but I'm interested if there was a legacy from last time that stuck that beneficial? His promises this term seems wildly far fetched, like stopping the Ukraine war easily etc....

 

 

Edited 7 November 2024 by fox_favourite