Sean Dyche

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, indierich06 said:

It's fine for us as fans to want this, but there's no suggestion that this is a key part of any new appointment from the board's perspective. Imagine they will have one objective next season - promotion at any cost. 

The board are idiots - we already know that 

[moore_94]

6 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

If we park Watford cos that was six months, do we have how much time these lads spent on the pitch? 

Other than the part of the season when he first joined and the part of this season before he was sacked from his time at Everton (it does include his 1 full season), the below is the minutes he gave to players who were 21 and under over his whole career

 

On 11/05/2025 at 11:41, moore_94 said:

Appearances and minutes of players 21 or under when Dyche was manager - League Only

 

Watford - 11/12 - 11th in Championship

12 players

101 appearances

7373 minutes

 

Burnley - 12/13 - 11th in Championship

6 players

107 appearances

7582 minutes

77 appearances were Kieran Trippier and Danny Ings

 

Burnley - 13/14 - 2nd in Championship - promoted

3 players

42 appearances

3550 minutes

40 appearances were Danny Ings

 

Burnley - 14/15 - 19th in Premier League - relegated

3 players

60 appearances

4696 minutes

56 appearances were Michael Keane and Danny Ings

 

Burnley - 15/16 - 1st in Championship - promoted

1 player

10 appearances

146 minutes

 

Burnley - 16/17 - 16th in Premier League

2 players

6 appearances

106 minutes

 

Burnley - 17/18 - 7th in Premier League - qualified for Europa League

1 player

1 appearance

1 minute

Dwight McNeil

 

Burnley - 18/19 - 15th in Premier League

1 player

21 appearances

1598 minutes

Dwight McNeil

 

Burnley - 19/20 - 10th in Premier League

2 players

39 appearances

3345 minutes

Dwight McNeil and a player who played 1 minute

 

Burnley - 20/21 - 17th in Premier League

4 players

48 appearances

3373 minutes

Dwight McNeil accounts for 36 appearances and 3072 minutes

 

Burnley - 21/22 - 18th in Premier League - relegated and sacked on 15th April

2 players

57 appearances

4782 minutes

Dwight McNeil and Nathan Collins - 8 appearances/720 mins for Collins were after Dyche left

 

Gets a bit harder to do his time at Everton but if we take his 1 full season in charge:

 

Everton - 23/24 - 15th in Premier League

8 players

118 appearances

6633 minutes played

 

Onana 3117 minutes - was already a key starter before Dyche joined

 

Branthwaite 2090 minutes - he can get credit for giving Branthwaite a chance

 

Patterson 1000 minutes - was signed and already playing regularly before Dyche joined (until he got injured)

 

[Ric Flair]

I'd multi quoted a few posters on here that were fairly well balanced on Dyche and I was going to saying something similar but I've had to untick them as @CosbehFox has absolutely smoked everything.

 

There's very little basis for Sean Dyche at this juncture, not if we want the systematic change that many of us call for, some of the same people who are sympathetic to Sean Dyche. Now, much of that change is outside of just the managers remit and should we get it, the said new men and women ought not to want Sean Dyche so that tells you everything.

 

We have a golden generation of academy players, we've played the long game of our prowess over the last decade as the most successful midlands team this century and we're seeing that with the talent we have developed, not because we invested millions on such players aged 14-17 but recruiting them at a much younger age as we became the trusted club to come to as we were becoming the best. Having the vision to build the most incredible facilities, a decent record of producing Chilwell, Barnes, KDH and a few others and winning trophies at first team level for the size of this club which defies modern football.

 

Sadly this is happening at a time when our club is declining but now more than ever we need to have the bravery to play them. Maybe you can't play as many when fighting for your lives in the PL but by the same token had we not generated over £120m in player sales on Chilwell, Barnes and KDH then this club would be in even more of a dire financial mess than it currently is. We simply have to deliver on what we've built. Buying low and selling high is literally the only way a club like us right now prospers and we have an opportunity of not needing to buy as many new players if we have the faith in using Nelson, Aluko, Alves, Page, Monga, Evans et al. There's others coming too, dismiss the importance of this at your peril and be complicit in our further demise. 

 

I've zero tolerance for giving managers the benefit of the doubt on this topic either. Saying Dyche has never had such a group of academy players at his disposal, I just can't bare another manager who phones it in on bringing through academy players.

 

Cooper had a supposed track record of bringing through academy players and then opted to play defensive midfielders in the #10 role in pre-season rather than use it as an exercise to test Alves with our strongest first team players around him. Van Nistelrooy has been equally as bad, even now despite relegation and this farcical notion of looking to the future he's favouring players who won't be here and limited aging players over starting Monga and Evans. I have no interest in more bull shit and it's high time the mandate from the new manager was prioritise bringing through academy players or instant dismissal. 

 

If we do the above then it's absolutely wild to consider Sean Dyche would be the standout candidate but here we are.

 

 

[HankMarvin]

50 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

If we park Watford cos that was six months, do we have how much time these lads spent on the pitch? 

He’s approximately fifteen years in management and shown zero trend of taking players from the 17/18/19 bracket into first team football
 

So now it’s his fault that players he has given first team opportunities to turn out to be shit 

 

 

[Dan]

I reckon it's quite likely Aiyawatt wants Martin and Rudkin wants Dyche. Will be us to a tee.

[CosbehFox]

9 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

He’s approximately fifteen years in management and shown zero trend of taking players from the 17/18/19 bracket into first team football
 

So now it’s his fault that players he has given first team opportunities to turn out to be shit 

 

 

Come off it. Five minutes he or there ain’t putting players into first team football. 

[iancognito]

4 minutes ago, Dan said:

I reckon it's quite likely Aiyawatt wants Martin and Rudkin wants Dyche. Will be us to a tee.

You over-estimate his knowledge.

 

Aiyawatt has never heard of Martin, I'll guarantee it. He'd never heard of Cooper either and replaced him with RvN on name alone.

[kingfox]

59 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Other than the part of the season when he first joined and the part of this season before he was sacked from his time at Everton (it does include his 1 full season), the below is the minutes he gave to players who were 21 and under over his whole career

 

 

 

32 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I've zero tolerance for giving managers the benefit of the doubt on this topic either. Saying Dyche has never had such a group of academy players at his disposal, I just can't bare another manager who phones it in on bringing through academy players.

 

 

As much as I’ve pointed out how Dyche loves experience, I think this is the only bit where I feel that I for one, have been a bit harsh on him. 
 

Just look at the list of players that @HankMarvin posted on the previous page. How many of those players have made it at Premier League or Championship level, not many. 
 

That list of players just indicates that Burnley’s academy for example just wasn’t that strong. 
 

He gave Dwight McNeil a chance because he was one of only a couple that were actually ready, now of course he’s developed into a solid Premier League player. 
 

Who knows how he’d perceive some of our youngsters, but I fully agree that there’d be a sense of fear should he be appointed, because his history of giving youngsters a chance is a bit weaker than others, but as history suggests, maybe that actually does boil down to Burnley and Everton’s academies just not being strong enough. 

Edited 12 May 2025 by kingfox

[VG Fox]

On 11/05/2025 at 07:18, rico said:

No thanks

ditto

[HankMarvin]

2 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Come off it. Five minutes he or there ain’t putting players into first team football. 

Remind me again of the minutes young players have played for this Relegated team? With no risk to the manager.

Did the subsequent managers in Dyches absence at Burnley suddenly start unearthing home grown gems playing weekly?

[HankMarvin]

1 hour ago, CosbehFox said:

If we park Watford cos that was six months, do we have how much time these lads spent on the pitch? 

“If we park Watford” because it weakens your point that in 15 years of his career there is no pathway for youngsters which has now pivoted to regular starters.
He was there a year and as per the screen-cap there was numerous youngster given minutes. 

[Ric Flair]

13 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

Remind me again of the minutes young players have played for this Relegated team? With no risk to the manager.

Did the subsequent managers in Dyches absence at Burnley suddenly start unearthing home grown gems playing weekly?

Cooper and RvN are getting slated for ignoring our academy.

 

Dyche might be a victim of our current position but given this unique nature we are in, the candidate needs to prove bringing through academy players is one, if not their number one priority. He doesn't have that, rightly or wrongly. There's a handful of managers that do that we could realistically attract. I know where I'd be putting my faith.

[Ric Flair]

19 minutes ago, kingfox said:

 

As much as I’ve pointed out how Dyche loves experience, I think this is the only bit where I feel that I for one, have been a bit harsh on him. 
 

Just look at the list of players that @HankMarvin posted on the previous page. How many of those players have made it at Premier League or Championship level, not many. 
 

That list of players just indicates that Burnley’s academy for example just wasn’t that strong. 
 

He gave Dwight McNeil a chance because he was one of only a couple that were actually ready, now of course he’s developed into a solid Premier League player. 
 

Who knows how he’d perceive some of our youngsters, but I fully agree that there’d be a sense of fear should he be appointed, because his history of giving youngsters a chance is a bit weaker than others, but as history suggests, maybe that actually does boil down to Burnley and Everton’s academies just not being strong enough. 

As I've just said, this unique position we are in probably rules out a massive chunk of otherwise likely candidates. The mandate is to have the bravery to build a team around 4-5 emerging academy players and have the philosophy that won't waiver. Almost like Enzo and Brussell in their playing style whatever pressure they come under, but on the nucleus of players they have the belief in developing. 

 

Dyche might fancy that, but what evidence could he draw against that's credible?

[STEVIE B]

3 hours ago, MaidstoneFox said:

He is yesterday's man. His achievements have been quite a few years ago now in football terms and he's not really coming down from a high bar. Neither is he a renaissance man re-inventing himself. There's quite a limited ceiling on what he'll provide.

He may be a yesterday's man, but we are far from being a modern, well organised club. 

[HankMarvin]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Cooper and RvN are getting slated for ignoring our academy.

 

Dyche might be a victim of our current position but given this unique nature we are in, the candidate needs to prove bringing through academy players is one, if not their number one priority. He doesn't have that, rightly or wrongly. There's a handful of managers that do that we could realistically attract. I know where I'd be putting my faith.

It was in response to Dyche has given no pathway to young players, then 5 minutes is not enough. 
Most of his career has been battling relegation and avoiding it,  When you are avoiding relegation by just a point in some instances. It would be a bit shortsighted  to throw on youngsters regularly just to give them minutes and weaken the clubs position in the league and your job. He has highlighted the lack of quality at Everton for example.

If Everton had Monga linked to PSG and Man City maybe he would’ve played him there to save him leaving. Has anyone posted players he has missed from any of the academies that have gone on to have top careers?

 

 

 

[trooky]

7 hours ago, HankMarvin said:

Conveniently miss all the other points to suit your strange stance of a bloke that’s been relegated once in 10 years and spent most of them overachieving with a club with a population of 80k

I don't have a strange stance on Dyche, I just don't think he's right for us, just like Eddie Howe wasn't the right fit for Burnley. 

 

His approached suited a small team like Burnley and they over achieved for sure but as soon as he left for a bigger club in Everton with a better squad than his team at Burnley he's struggled. 

 

The premier league has evolved considerably over the last 3 years, Dyche was never a visionary, but he's been left behind and struggled to adapt his philosophy or pragmatic style unlike Moyes or Howe.

 

We need a new DOF before we appoint a new manager, the last thing we need is another rushed appointment of an unemployed manager by the same people that have got it so wrong over the last 4-years. 

 

I would rather keep Ruud at the club for another 6 months and appoint a proper DOF who can put in place the foundations we desperately need. 

 

[kingfox]

14 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

As I've just said, this unique position we are in probably rules out a massive chunk of otherwise likely candidates. The mandate is to have the bravery to build a team around 4-5 emerging academy players and have the philosophy that won't waiver. Almost like Enzo and Brussell in their playing style whatever pressure they come under, but on the nucleus of players they have the belief in developing. 

 

Dyche might fancy that, but what evidence could he draw against that's credible?

The evidence suggests as @HankMarvin has pointed out, that Burnley and Everton’s academies just weren’t strong enough to give us a credible indication. 
 

Take the two Everton academy players that Dyche played this season for instance. Roman Dixon, 3 appearances, Moyes hasn’t used him since he came in. Harrison Armstrong, 6 appearances, Moyes sent him on loan to Derby in February. 
 

That just indicates that Everton’s academy players just aren’t ready for Premier League football yet, same can be said for a few others who have been loaned out to League 1 & 2. 
 

Would Dyche be brave enough to give the likes of Nelson, Alves, Monga and Evans regular game time, I’ve come to realise after delving deeper, that it’s a very difficult topic to judge him on mate. 
 

As I’ve even said to you in previous weeks, I think there’s managers out there that you can guarantee would give those players a chance, even though some laughed at my suggestion, Tom Cleverley for instance would be perfect imo, because I saw first hand his work at Watford. 
 

In Dyche’s case, I think it would be very much a case of who knows, but to regard him as some experience loving merchant, I’ve accepted that I’ve been a bit harsh on him in that regard  

[The Horse's Mouth]

47 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

As I've just said, this unique position we are in probably rules out a massive chunk of otherwise likely candidates. The mandate is to have the bravery to build a team around 4-5 emerging academy players and have the philosophy that won't waiver. Almost like Enzo and Brussell in their playing style whatever pressure they come under, but on the nucleus of players they have the belief in developing. 

 

Dyche might fancy that, but what evidence could he draw against that's credible?

What players did Dyche not give chances to that have gone on to have fruitful careers at the top level? You can only give chances to players if the talent is there, you don’t just chuck in a lad because he’s 17 and can’t trap a bag of cement 

[Dan]

I don't know if the entire club philosophy should just be bringing players through to sell on or whatnot but it definitely needs to be a facet given the position we're in. It is my main worry about Dyche. Is he the best manager to utilise Monga? Potentially elite talent on our hands and his game is very much about structured and organised - which is important, but it probably isn't all that pragmatic with the tools we have.

[Ric Flair]

33 minutes ago, kingfox said:

The evidence suggests as @HankMarvin has pointed out, that Burnley and Everton’s academies just weren’t strong enough to give us a credible indication. 
 

Take the two Everton academy players that Dyche played this season for instance. Roman Dixon, 3 appearances, Moyes hasn’t used him since he came in. Harrison Armstrong, 6 appearances, Moyes sent him on loan to Derby in February. 
 

That just indicates that Everton’s academy players just aren’t ready for Premier League football yet, same can be said for a few others who have been loaned out to League 1 & 2. 
 

Would Dyche be brave enough to give the likes of Nelson, Alves, Monga and Evans regular game time, I’ve come to realise after delving deeper, that it’s a very difficult topic to judge him on mate. 
 

As I’ve even said to you in previous weeks, I think there’s managers out there that you can guarantee would give those players a chance, even though some laughed at my suggestion, Tom Cleverley for instance would be perfect imo, because I saw first hand his work at Watford. 
 

In Dyche’s case, I think it would be very much a case of who knows, but to regard him as some experience loving merchant, I’ve accepted that I’ve been a bit harsh on him in that regard  

Exactly, there's no conclusive evidence he would do because the clubs he's previously been at he's not had such players to do so. Nor has he been massively proactive in the nucleus of his squad improvement year on year being exclusively younger players. It's all guess work and why he's an immediate no.

[Ric Flair]

7 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

What players did Dyche not give chances to that have gone on to have fruitful careers at the top level? You can only give chances to players if the talent is there, you don’t just chuck in a lad because he’s 17 and can’t trap a bag of cement 

Rightly or wrongly though he's got minimal track record despite a 15+ year span as a manager, the same as when considering other managers who don't have experience in x, y and z criteria.

 

It's a red flag. 

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, HankMarvin said:

“If we park Watford” because it weakens your point that in 15 years of his career there is no pathway for youngsters which has now pivoted to regular starters.
He was there a year and as per the screen-cap there was numerous youngster given minutes. 

Because Watford were in financial difficulties given Dyche little choice but to use them players 

[CosbehFox]

22 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

What players did Dyche not give chances to that have gone on to have fruitful careers at the top level? You can only give chances to players if the talent is there, you don’t just chuck in a lad because he’s 17 and can’t trap a bag of cement 

Gordon soon got that transfer request in when Dyche turned up 

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, HankMarvin said:

Remind me again of the minutes young players have played for this Relegated team? With no risk to the manager.

Did the subsequent managers in Dyches absence at Burnley suddenly start unearthing home grown gems playing weekly?

I told you in my first post. Dyche was self fulfilling at Burnley. By being ignorant to young talent, he made it unsuitable for young players to want join Burnley
 

He’s probably set their academy back years bevause who’d want to see their lad to a club with such an appalling record.
 

Especially if you compare to Blackburn in the local area with players like Adam Wharton 

Edited 12 May 2025 by CosbehFox

[HankMarvin]

37 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Especially if you compare to Blackburn in the local area with players like Adam Wharton 

Ok mate nothing to doing with him being a mascot at 4 and fan of Blackburn in 2008 and the family all being massive fans and having 2 sons play for the club

A clear early affiliation with the club 4 years before Dyche was manager of Burnley. Only takes a minute to google.

Thats Dyches fault for the identity he gave Burnley in the future 

 

Edited 12 May 2025 by HankMarvin