General News Thread

[bovril]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

I'd be interested in hearing a specific example or two on this one.

You'd be interested in hearing some examples of countries with better weather and a more cohesive society than the UK? Is this trolling? Lol 

[leicsmac]

30 minutes ago, bovril said:

You'd be interested in hearing some examples of countries with better weather and a more cohesive society than the UK? Is this trolling? Lol 

Not the better weather part, the more cohesive society part. The former is pretty clear 

 

On that, I reckon everywhere is having issues either with that or what people would describe as government overreach to generate that cohesion. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground anywhere. 

[bovril]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Not the better weather part, the more cohesive society part. The former is pretty clear 

 

On that, I reckon everywhere is having issues either with that or what people would describe as government overreach to generate that cohesion. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground anywhere. 

There have been literal attempted pogroms against foreigners in multiple parts of the UK in the last fifteen ish months. That's before you get to the increasingly diverging politics of the four countries that make up the UK. I can't think of a country in Europe that's more divided, maybe Belgium, Italy and Spain along political lines but I don't recall unrest there on the scale I've seen here since summer 2024.

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, bovril said:

There have been literal attempted pogroms against foreigners in multiple parts of the UK in the last fifteen ish months. That's before you get to the increasingly diverging politics of the four countries that make up the UK. I can't think of a country in Europe that's more divided, maybe Belgium, Italy and Spain along political lines but I don't recall unrest there on the scale I've seen here since summer 2024.

Right, by those who think the "country is going to the dogs" and that social cohesion = ethnostate.

 

So that's two completely juxtaposed reasons for and symptoms of the lack of social cohesion (theirs and yours) and both can't be true at the same time. 

 

That very same debate on the cause of such lack of cohesion is happening in a lot of places, which is itself a cause of the lack of cohesion. That's my overall point. 

 

If there is a place in a first-world country where there is less government intervention and even a degree of harmonious living going on without the horrifically poisonous debate regarding "foreigners"/'insert local term for "foreigners" here' at the present time, to say nothing of economic concerns, then I'd like to know about it.

[bovril]

So it's correct to say there's a lack of social cohesion, but only if the right people say it in the right way

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

7 hours ago, davieG said:

It’s such a refreshing change from the way the media usually paints football fans—as beer-chugging, dim-witted troublemakers. 

Leicesterpool isn't that bad 

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, bovril said:

So it's correct to say there's a lack of social cohesion, but only if the right people say it in the right way

Fvck knows to be honest, I just want to see our species actually make it through the next few decades with civilisation (at least mostly) intact, it's really difficult to quantify the best way to do that, but the one thing I do know is bitching among ourselves is likely fvcking it up. 

[CornwallFox]

3 hours ago, kenny said:

I've been really worried about the state of the economy for a while. Under rishi it was unremarkable but working, then immediately declared broken by Labour. Him and Hunt were doing a decent job IMO.

 

18 months in and every tax has risen while I employment is increasing daily.

 

What's worse is that we aren't even seeing anything for our money. The amount of public investment projects being paused or mothballed is weird and is one of the drivers of the construction industry output drops we have seen.

 

The downright bizarre approach of reducing housing targets on cities, to force new housing into greenbelt development is criminal. It is encouraging a car reliant society and effecting food security as they believed it would deliver quick wins.

 

When I know someone that has had their life improved by this government then I think your criticism of Tommy will have some merit.

I'm glad you took the time to respond, what I sometimes miss from posters like Tommy - and maybe that's my fault and it is there but I'm not seeing it - is a critique that we can engage with. By which I mean more than something outright dismissive without really looking like any thought beyond 'labour bad' has gone into it.

 

You make some fair points. Unemployment and inactivity seem to have risen and the NI rise is likely to have hada negative effect on business as Tommy alluded to. Labour really do need to do something to get the economy moving. I'd much rather see them borrow more in the short term and use it to try to instigate growth, than I would tax ordinary people more. 

 

I'm not so sure about Rishi and Hunt doing a great job. Growth was incredibly weak for years, inflation had come down but it was under the Tories that they lost control. They also did intentionally fail to include a fair number of guaranteed spends on their final budget, producing misleading figures and the infamous black hole (for instance, when inflation was much higher the year before they only gave small pay rises to the public sector pointing at their inability to override the independent panels. Last year they knew what the independent panels had recommended before leaving office, which they would have to pay, but they intentionally set no money aside to try to salt the earth in terms of tax rises being needed to fund them and to try and blame labour for "inflation busting pay rises", even though they'd all been through the process under the Tory watch who then simply sat on them until the election). No government acting like that, just to make life hard for the next lot at the expense of the country, deserves to be treated as if they were economically competent. 

[CornwallFox]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

There have been literal attempted pogroms against foreigners in multiple parts of the UK in the last fifteen ish months. That's before you get to the increasingly diverging politics of the four countries that make up the UK. I can't think of a country in Europe that's more divided, maybe Belgium, Italy and Spain along political lines but I don't recall unrest there on the scale I've seen here since summer 2024.

The US is as divided but then it's the US who we're being pushed to follow down the path towards division.

[bovril]

3 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

The US is as divided but then it's the US who we're being pushed to follow down the path towards division.

"I can't think of a country in Europe..."

 

I think we should aspire to more than just being a bit better than the US.

[bovril]

Having said all that, as someone who's just started bringing up a dual-national child, there are still a lot of things the British state does surprisingly well compared to other countries. But most of our political class seem determined to pander to voters who want to take those things away.

Edited 7 November 2025 by bovril

[CornwallFox]

5 minutes ago, bovril said:

"I can't think of a country in Europe..."

 

I think we should aspire to more than just being a bit better than the US.

Oh I agree I just didn't pay attention to the first bit

[MaidstoneFox]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Not the better weather part, the more cohesive society part. The former is pretty clear 

 

On that, I reckon everywhere is having issues either with that or what people would describe as government overreach to generate that cohesion. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground anywhere. 

One could always reference Switzerland as an example in such matters, but to quote Harry Lime in the Third Man: " In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they has warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed - but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vici and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock".

 

A lot of good can come from conflict and strife. America had a civil war for four years, but it led to the abolition of slavery.

[leicsmac]

16 minutes ago, MaidstoneFox said:

One could always reference Switzerland as an example in such matters, but to quote Harry Lime in the Third Man: " In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they has warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed - but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vici and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock".

 

A lot of good can come from conflict and strife. America had a civil war for four years, but it led to the abolition of slavery.

And World War II pushed the boundaries of science and technology so far that nations went from unreliable single propeller aircraft to rockets capable of achieving sub-orbital flight within a decade. Among other leaps forward.

 

I guess it just depends if a person thinks such development is worth the cost paid for it. And given that our weaponry has become ever more sophisticated, the cost of such conflict in this day and age might be very, very high. 

 

 

[Parafox]

35 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I guess it just depends if a person thinks such development is worth the cost paid for it. And given that our weaponry has become ever more sophisticated, the cost of such conflict in this day and age might be very, very high.

There's no way back from this for mankind, sadly.

 

This particular Pandora's box was opened 80 years ago:

 

The first atomic bomb was tested on July 16, 1945, in the Trinity test, conducted by the United States. The test took place in New Mexico as part of the Manhattan Project and was the first detonation of a nuclear weapon. 

 

 

Edited 7 November 2025 by Parafox

[kenny]

1 hour ago, CornwallFox said:

I'm glad you took the time to respond, what I sometimes miss from posters like Tommy - and maybe that's my fault and it is there but I'm not seeing it - is a critique that we can engage with. By which I mean more than something outright dismissive without really looking like any thought beyond 'labour bad' has gone into it.

 

You make some fair points. Unemployment and inactivity seem to have risen and the NI rise is likely to have hada negative effect on business as Tommy alluded to. Labour really do need to do something to get the economy moving. I'd much rather see them borrow more in the short term and use it to try to instigate growth, than I would tax ordinary people more. 

 

I'm not so sure about Rishi and Hunt doing a great job. Growth was incredibly weak for years, inflation had come down but it was under the Tories that they lost control. They also did intentionally fail to include a fair number of guaranteed spends on their final budget, producing misleading figures and the infamous black hole (for instance, when inflation was much higher the year before they only gave small pay rises to the public sector pointing at their inability to override the independent panels. Last year they knew what the independent panels had recommended before leaving office, which they would have to pay, but they intentionally set no money aside to try to salt the earth in terms of tax rises being needed to fund them and to try and blame labour for "inflation busting pay rises", even though they'd all been through the process under the Tory watch who then simply sat on them until the election). No government acting like that, just to make life hard for the next lot at the expense of the country, deserves to be treated as if they were economically competent. 

From memory the OBR accounted for £7bn of the black hole left behind. I think we are looking at over £70bn of blackhole so far.

 

The other point to note, is that pay rises are easy to give out when you aren't paying the costs. The government is now realising that bowing down to the unions is dangerous and the only one standing up to them is Streeting.

 

I didn't say great under Rishi.... fwiw the best our economy can achieve is probably dull and unremarkable, so for them to achieve that is a mark of success.

[leicsmac]

30 minutes ago, Parafox said:

There's no way back from this for mankind, sadly.

 

This particular Pandora's box was opened 80 years ago:

 

The first atomic bomb was tested on July 16, 1945, in the Trinity test, conducted by the United States. The test took place in New Mexico as part of the Manhattan Project and was the first detonation of a nuclear weapon. 

 

 

Yeah, outside of some ridiculous event that would disable all such weapons at once everywhere, the genie is out of that bottle and will remain so. 

 

The only thing we can do is use such tech development to try to guarantee the future, rather than destroy it. 

[Zear0]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

And World War II pushed the boundaries of science and technology so far that nations went from unreliable single propeller aircraft to rockets capable of achieving sub-orbital flight within a decade. Among other leaps forward.

 

I guess it just depends if a person thinks such development is worth the cost paid for it. And given that our weaponry has become ever more sophisticated, the cost of such conflict in this day and age might be very, very high. 

 

 

It's trotted out all the time, but always love the fact there was 32 years between the maiden flights of the Spitfire and Concorde. 

[Parafox]

45 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yeah, outside of some ridiculous event that would disable all such weapons at once everywhere, the genie is out of that bottle and will remain so. 

 

The only thing we can do is use such tech development to try to guarantee the future, rather than destroy it. 

 But that probably depends on various world governments and their quest for power.

 

Wouldn't it great if governments could become more powerful by protecting instead of destroying?

Edited 7 November 2025 by Parafox

[CornwallFox]

1 hour ago, kenny said:

From memory the OBR accounted for £7bn of the black hole left behind. I think we are looking at over £70bn of blackhole so far.

 

The other point to note, is that pay rises are easy to give out when you aren't paying the costs. The government is now realising that bowing down to the unions is dangerous and the only one standing up to them is Streeting.

 

I didn't say great under Rishi.... fwiw the best our economy can achieve is probably dull and unremarkable, so for them to achieve that is a mark of success.

Kenny, I like how you approach these conversations. 

I'm prepared to accept labour aren't doing great on the economy ATM.

But the Tories left the entire country in an absolute state. Public services are a disaster zone. They were the worst government of all time, hands down, even in rishi was marginally better than what went before.

[JacobLCFC1234]

Joey Barton tries his hardest to look intelligent, but the reality is he is just a thug with a low IQ.

[MaidstoneFox]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

And World War II pushed the boundaries of science and technology so far that nations went from unreliable single propeller aircraft to rockets capable of achieving sub-orbital flight within a decade. Among other leaps forward.

 

I guess it just depends if a person thinks such development is worth the cost paid for it. And given that our weaponry has become ever more sophisticated, the cost of such conflict in this day and age might be very, very high. 

 

 

Necessity is the mother of invention.

 

I wouldn't say the end justifies the means of course and WW2 is an extreme example of human destruction.

 

However, we are about to have four films made about the most influential music group in history. Would they have happened in Switzerland? I don't think so. So there's something about places of turbulence, conflict that produces great ideas and driven people. Is that a reasonable trade-off for a lack of cohesion and peace?

[MaidstoneFox]

1 hour ago, Parafox said:

 But that probably depends on various world governments and their quest for power.

 

Wouldn't it great if governments could become more powerful by protecting instead of destroying?

Don't worry. Musk is going to take over the world anyway, with his army of humanoid robots.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Zear0 said:

It's trotted out all the time, but always love the fact there was 32 years between the maiden flights of the Spitfire and Concorde. 

And only 66 years between the first flight of the Wright Brothers and Neil Armstrong setting foot on the Moon.

 

66 more years from that will take us to 2035. What, exactly, have we done of note to further such things in those 66 more years? 

 

1 hour ago, Parafox said:

 But that probably depends on various world governments and their quest for power.

 

Wouldn't it great if governments could become more powerful by protecting instead of destroying?

That it does indeed. 

 

And the only way I can think of that the second sentence happens is when such governments finally come round to the idea that the biggest threat to their life and health - and people in general - isn't other people. Or, more accurately, doesn't have to be other people (based on resource-based conflict), anyway. And for those governments to come round to the idea, so do their people. Unfortunately, our species is having trouble getting over that particular very animalistic blind spot.

 

2 minutes ago, MaidstoneFox said:

Necessity is the mother of invention.

 

I wouldn't say the end justifies the means of course and WW2 is an extreme example of human destruction.

 

However, we are about to have four films made about the most influential music group in history. Would they have happened in Switzerland? I don't think so. So there's something about places of turbulence, conflict that produces great ideas and driven people. Is that a reasonable trade-off for a lack of cohesion and peace?

That very much depends on both the degree of conflict and the degree of discovery and advancement. Both can be very random, after all.

 

As per above, if we could channel such feelings of conflict into a battle against something that doesn't necessitate us fighting each other, then it might render that debate moot at a stroke.

[CornwallFox]

42 minutes ago, MaidstoneFox said:

Don't worry. Musk is going to take over the world anyway, with his army of humanoid robots.

I'm going to be sorely disappointed if some of the home help ones aren't ridiculously fit.

Sci-fi has promised me this.