General News Thread

[leicsmac]

54 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Too moderate a response, need to hit them where it hurts. Seize all of Trump's golf courses over here. 

Seize Turnberry and immediately stage the next Open there thereafter. 

 

I'm sure @Izzy would approve. 

Edited 5 January by leicsmac

[leicsmac]

30 minutes ago, danny. said:

If I was defending Trump or a supporter of him, sure, but I'm not and wasn't, I'm just a centrist pointing out selective outrage and double standards in partisan politics.

And I don't think anyone would deny that the double standard exists.

 

For my part, I just want to see human civilisation actually last long enough to be worth more than a geological flyspeck and a cautionary tale for any future species that might come across it. Thinking the way that Trump and most of those who follow him will almost certainly ensure that doesn't happen. I'm not sure which political compass "wing" being in favour of ensured human future comes under, but whichever it is...

 

 

[danny.]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And I don't think anyone would deny that the double standard exists.

 

For my part, I just want to see human civilisation actually last long enough to be worth more than a geological flyspeck and a cautionary tale for any future species that might come across it. Thinking the way that Trump and most of those who follow him will almost certainly ensure that doesn't happen. I'm not sure which political compass "wing" being in favour of ensured human future comes under, but whichever it is...

 

 

As long as you broadcasted similar outrage when it was Biden or Obama I think that is fair. Many don't, though, that is all I was pointing out.

[foxes1988]

11 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

NATO has had about 70+ years to go fully European. The US support was only meant as a kickstart. Over the years and decades, you'll find many shaking heads in Washington over the European hesitancy (which also stems from the experiences with WWI and WW2 in particular).

But hey, as long as Europe continues to finance their military industrial complex, their companies won't complain.

The whole system was setup by the USA and they got exactly what they wanted out of it.  Europe voted and has gone along with the US many times when it hasn't wanted to but the NATO alliance has forced their hand.

 

Trumps biggest **** up was pushing Europeans aways from US defense companies.  If he had approached it as a grown up their companies could've made a killing.

 

Edit.  No his biggest **** up but certainly a idiotic mistake

Edited 5 January by foxes1988

[MC Prussian]

5 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

This is a notable characteristic of the last election. Lots of people voted Republican for the first time and have never really had traditional Republican values, but voted for Trump, not the Republican party (though, by default, of course they did.)

 

Whilst I don't like to use Hitler comparisons, since it's what's being discussed, it can be said this would be something in common with AH..

 

On the patriotic wave of making their country great again, many otherwise sensible Germans turned a blind eye to the hard reality of Nazism.

Surely that nice Mr Hitler, who was doing so much good for the country, wouldn't be doing these things. It was just jealousy stoking these stories 

 

DT has got a way to go before being a fascist, but he's moving ever closer.

The historical context surrounding the rise of the Nazi party a hundred years ago bears no resemblance to the US today.

For a start, Weimar Germany was a democracy, albeit a fragile and short-lived one.

The US aren't a democracy, but a two-party democratic republic. Big difference.

 

Very simplified:

 

Germany had lost a war, and antisemitism been growing since the mid-19th century. The country was down on its knees financially (reparations) and the military wanted revenge ("Dolchstosslegende").

Hitler bore tons of resentment towards the Jews.

He found people who shared that sentiment.

Failed coup.

Kristallnacht.

Dictatorship. Uniparty.

Deportations.

Concentration Camps.

WWII.

The end.

 

Anyone putting Trump and Hitler on the same level is completely bonkers.

[MC Prussian]

6 hours ago, Sly said:

Hold on here, I was more referring to an example

of running roughshot over a country then leaving it in a mess.
 

Clearly Afghanistan and Venezuela are significantly different culturally. However if you allow mob rule it will collapse and become a mess. 
 

No different from a seagull coming in to **** on everything, steal Food then leaving. 
 

What has happened so far is the current president of Venezuela has basically been kidnapped after the US infiltrated foreign soil. Now, I don’t think it’s fair to call that an invasion personally as it’s clearly a strategic move, be it for the “drugs trafficking” as currently mentioned, or to increase US resources (whilst improving the country itself), by tapping into the vast natural resources that the country has. I’d imagine the world has far worse dictators than Venezuela! 
 

Trump is largely unpredictable and nothing is off the table in terms of force. Do I think he’ll roll into Greenland, “no”. I think he’s using it as propaganda to allow a movement to purchase it if I’m honest. I sort of semi agree it’s better off independent, or rather associated with the US from a logistics point of view. Then again, culturally it’s different. Then again, so is Alaska to New York, to Texas. 

Venezuela has been in a mess for about 25 years, it can only improve from hereon.

 

There's no mob rule in Afghanistan, unless "mob" equals "Muslim" in your vocabulary. The Taliban sure do have a system. A system of oppression.

There is no mob rule in Venezuela.

 

What's with that seagull analogy? Just weird. An animal acts on impulse and survival instincts alone.

And if you leave food in the open, then that's on you, not the seagull.

 

The president of Venezuela, who stole the election, has been caught by the US. There's been a reward on his capture for years, he's been declared an enemy of the state by pretty much the entire world.

Nobody dared to intervene, so the US said "Fvck it, we'll do it then!".

 

As another reminder: Alaska was bought by the US – from Russia. Luckily, we didn't have Social Media back then for all the faux outrage.

Edited 5 January by MC Prussian

[Sly]

5 hours ago, danny. said:

Like Obama did in Libya? Or like when Biden chaotically withdrew from Afghanistan leaving the it to the Taliban? 

Exactly this! You’d like to think that recent history has taught us we need a follow through plan! 

[Trav Le Bleu]

19 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

The historical context surrounding the rise of the Nazi party a hundred years ago bears no resemblance to the US today.

For a start, Weimar Germany was a democracy, albeit a fragile and short-lived one.

The US aren't a democracy, but a two-party democratic republic. Big difference.

 

Very simplified:

 

Germany had lost a war, and antisemitism been growing since the mid-19th century. The country was down on its knees financially (reparations) and the military wanted revenge ("Dolchstosslegende").

Hitler bore tons of resentment towards the Jews.

He found people who shared that sentiment.

Failed coup.

Kristallnacht.

Dictatorship. Uniparty.

Deportations.

Concentration Camps.

WWII.

The end.

 

Anyone putting Trump and Hitler on the same level is completely bonkers.

I wasn't, my post actually said that.

 

You should go into politics with the way you're able to ignore what was stated and put forward ideas on a different tangent.

 

Though I would say, since you brought up the list, we've had comparable, but less violent, versions of these events.

 

Failed "assassination"

Purges and appointment of yesmen 

Policy of the party being solely his making...

[Lionator]

Amazing really that people can’t grasp that aside from literally invading China or Russia (and to a much tinier extent North Korea), the United States can literally do what it wants. If Trump landed his forces on Westminster bridge tomorrow and declared London his, militarily what are we gonna do to make the cost unbearable for the United States?

Edited 5 January by Lionator

[MC Prussian]

18 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I wasn't, my post actually said that.

 

You should go into politics with the way you're able to ignore what was stated and put forward ideas on a different tangent.

 

Though I would say, since you brought up the list, we've had comparable, but less violent, versions of these events.

 

Failed "assassination"

Purges and appointment of yesmen 

Policy of the party being solely his making...

The assassination attempts against Hitler happened during his tenure as chancellor, not during the voting stages pre-1934.

Trump hasn't killed any voice that opposes him or given orders to do so.

The Republicans on the whole don't particularly like Trump (a lifelong Democrat prior to switching parties, mind). They'll tolerate him as long as he's winning.

Speaking of which, could you imagine a Republican becoming top candidate for the Democrats?

 

Coming back to your previous post:

 

In late 2024, people didn't just vote for Trump, they primarily voted against Kamala Harris. Decidedly so.

Imagine her as head of state.

 

I don't particularly like Trump – I've said it before, it is a sad indictment when a 70-year old and a deranged alcoholic come out as the two options to vote for.

However, Trump simply edged it. As Harris became a laughing stock for her antics.

 

About 50 percent of the US voting population do not identify as neither Democrat nor Republican. They saw something in Trump that they just didn't see in Harris.

 

Personally, I don't see Trump going for another four years. He's too old. It'll be interesting to see what legacy he wants to leave behind – and how history will judge him in comparison to other presidents

Edited 5 January by MC Prussian

[Sly]

4 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Venezuela has been in a mess for about 25 years, it can only improve from hereon.

 

There's no mob rule in Afghanistan, unless "mob" equals "Muslim" in your vocabulary. The Taliban sure do have a system. A system of suppression.

There is no mob rule in Venezuela.

 

What's with that seagull analogy? Just weird. An animal acts on impulse and survival instincts alone.

And if you leave food in the open, then that's on you, not the seagull.

 

The president of Venezuela, who stole the election, has been caught by the US. There's been a reward on his capture for years, he's been declared an enemy of the state by pretty much the entire world.

Nobody dared to intervene, so the US said "Fvck it, we'll do it then!".

 

As another reminder: Alaska was bought by the US – from Russia. Luckily, we didn't have Social Media back then for all the faux outrage.

Of all the countries in the world though, we have larger issues than Venezuela. If it was as barren as the Sahara, he wouldn’t have touched it. The bloke in Venezuela is clearly a little dodgy; however the world has also framed various other leaders in a not-dissimilar light, Putin, Kim Jong-Un, JinPing, Lukashenko, Guelleh, Erdogan, Fattah El-Sisi, even Modi in India etc. Now you will have a certain amount of propaganda from various media outlets,  so Venezuela is an easy target in reality. 
 

Not familiar with the seagull management analogy then?  Flys in, makes a lot of noise, dumps a load of waste then leaves the team to pick up the mess and pieces after they leave. 
 

As for Afghanistan, my point remains as I’ve stated before. The world rolled in, never really sorted the issues and it’s as much as a mess now, as it was before. If females can’t get a good standard of education, you’ve got economic collapse, poverty etc, then it’s not exactly great. That’s not a Muslim thing at all, that’s Taliban. Which is an issue that was never really bottomed out.

 

I’m not a religious person at all, so for me I’d just like everyone to actually get along with each other . 

[Sly]

4 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Amazing really that people can’t grasp that aside from literally invading China or Russia (and to a much tinier extent North Korea), the United States can literally do what it wants. If Trump landed his forces on Westminster bridge tomorrow and declared London his, militarily what are we gonna do to make the cost unbearable for the United States?

He can do what he wants really. If he wanted to invade the United Kingdom, we’d be screwed.

 

Nuclear technology is the only deterrent. Is anyone going to counter by dropping a bomb though. They’d be crazy to do that. 

[danny.]

Just now, Sly said:

He can do what he wants really. If he wanted to invade the United Kingdom, we’d be screwed.

 

Nuclear technology is the only deterrent. Is anyone going to counter by dropping a bomb though. They’d be crazy to do that. 

the UK's nuclear deterrent is leased from the USA

[Sly]

3 minutes ago, danny. said:

the UK's nuclear deterrent is leased from the USA

I think that would be a longer term challenge.

 

I don’t think they could stop a single UK launch?
 

All slightly irreverent if we are honesty, as the world ends the minute anyone launches one! Something we all should wish never happens. I’d like to think anyone we’d label as crazy, are still sensible enough to not do this. 

[MC Prussian]

2 minutes ago, Sly said:

Of all the countries in the world though, we have larger issues than Venezuela. If it was as barren as the Sahara, he wouldn’t have touched it. The bloke in Venezuela is clearly a little dodgy; however the world has also framed various other leaders in a not-dissimilar light, Putin, Kim Jong-Un, JinPing, Lukashenko, Guelleh, Erdogan, Fattah El-Sisi, even Modi in India etc. Now you will have a certain amount of propaganda from various media outlets,  so Venezuela is an easy target in reality. 
 

Not familiar with the seagull management analogy then?  Flys in, makes a lot of noise, dumps a load of waste then leaves the team to pick up the mess and pieces after they leave. 
 

As for Afghanistan, my point remains as I’ve stated before. The world rolled in, never really sorted the issues and it’s as much as a mess now, as it was before. If females can’t get a good standard of education, you’ve got economic collapse, poverty etc, then it’s not exactly great. That’s not a Muslim thing at all, that’s Taliban. Which is an issue that was never really bottomed out.

 

I’m not a religious person at all, so for me I’d just like everyone to actually get along with each other . 

The US would disagree.

 

And Maduro is/was more than just "a little dodgy".  He's a corrupt clown, despised by a vast majority of Venezuelans.

HIs downfall was his arrogance (there's several videos for reference), and the fact that a door in his hideout malfunctioned.

 

The US intervention in Venezuela was a swift one, it took roughly two hours to capture Maduro, no civilian casualties last time I've heard.

Would you rather it took another Iraq?

 

The state that Afghanistan is in isn't just down to the US' failure (as you acknowledge). Remember how the Russians couldn't get a foot in in 1980. What's particularly shameful is the way the US left (under Biden) and handed over all that equipment to the Taliban for free. Embarrassing.

"That’s not a Muslim thing at all, that’s Taliban."  The Taliban are Muslim. Muslim extremists.

Well, I applaud you for your peaceful attitude. Sadly, one particular religion couldn't care less.

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Amazing really that people can’t grasp that aside from literally invading China or Russia (and to a much tinier extent North Korea), the United States can literally do what it wants. If Trump landed his forces on Westminster bridge tomorrow and declared London his, militarily what are we gonna do to make the cost unbearable for the United States?

A few people do appear to be in denial about that. 

 

But, in that case, the Earth itself is the great leveler. Pardon me for repeating myself, but the way any Might Makes Right leader, be it Trump, Putin or anyone else, does things is incompatible with the long or even medium term stability of our biosphere, whether as a result of increased natural disasters, warfare over diminished resources, or a combination of the two. That incompatibility will be punished, if will be punished in probably the harshest possible fashion, and even those leaders who think they are untouchable will answer to it in the end. 

 

And that's something that people aren't grasping that I find amazing; these people can do what they like, but doing so inevitably dooms us all in the end, so why simply accept that, when the possibility of so much better exists? 

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

The US would disagree.

 

And Maduro is/was more than just "a little dodgy".  He's a corrupt clown, despised by a vast majority of Venezuelans.

HIs downfall was his arrogance (there's several videos for reference), and the fact that a door in his hideout malfunctioned.

 

The US intervention in Venezuela was a swift one, it took roughly two hours to capture Maduro, no civilian casualties last time I've heard.

Would you rather it took another Iraq?

 

The state that Afghanistan is in isn't just down to the US' failure (as you acknowledge). Remember how the Russians couldn't get a foot in in 1980. What's particularly shameful is the way the US left (under Biden) and handed over all that equipment to the Taliban for free. Embarrassing.

"That’s not a Muslim thing at all, that’s Taliban."  The Taliban are Muslim. Muslim extremists.

Well, I applaud you for your peaceful attitude. Sadly, one particular religion couldn't care less.

I missed your mastery of obfuscation and rhetoric, Prussian. Welcome back. 

[MC Prussian]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I missed your mastery of obfuscation and rhetoric, Prussian. Welcome back. 

Much appreciated.

I, on my part, think it's great you're still aiming at the person instead of the argument made.

[Sly]

Just now, MC Prussian said:

The US would disagree.

 

And Maduro is/was more than just "a little dodgy".  He's a corrupt clown, despised by a vast majority of Venezuelans.

HIs downfall was his arrogance (there's several videos for reference), and the fact that a door in his hideout malfunctioned.

 

The US intervention in Venezuela was a swift one, it took roughly two hours to capture Maduro, no civilian casualties last time I've heard.

Would you rather it took another Iraq?

 

The state that Afghanistan is in isn't just down to the US' failure (as you acknowledge). Remember how the Russians couldn't get a foot in in 1980. What's particularly shameful is the way the US left (under Biden) and handed over all that equipment to the Taliban for free. Embarrassing.

"That’s not a Muslim thing at all, that’s Taliban."  The Taliban are Muslim. Muslim extremists.

Well, I applaud you for your peaceful attitude. Sadly, one particular religion couldn't care less.

I think it’s safe to say, the Venezuela situation has divide the world in terms of should / shouldn’t the US got involved. Everyone will have a differing opinion on that. 
 

It has clearly been a well planned strategic operation that has minimised casualties, be that military or civilian. I’d also heard no Civilian casualties, which is remarkable if true. 

 

I guess religion can be a great source or belief for people, however it has also been used as a reason for violence, control and power as well too often.
 

Every religion throughout history had has extremism I guess; be it the Islamic conquests, The Crusades, Catholics Vs Protestants, Hindu Vs Muslim etc.

 

Religion of any type is too often used to justify war, enforce conformity, or dehumanise people. We should all call It out for what it is at times and it’s happened for eternity; which is a lust for power. We won’t change that. The media will never tell that story though. 
 

You get good, bad and indifferent in every walk of life.
 

Peace is a utopia which will never be reached. 

[Zear0]

 

Is that a declaration of war against everyone north of the equator? 

 

[danny.]

2 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

 

Is that a declaration of war against everyone north of the equator? 

 

amazed he left the southern tip of Somalia alone

[Sly]

Just now, Zear0 said:

 

Is that a declaration of war against everyone north of the equator? 

 

 It’s all peacocking isn’t in reality? 
 

Crazy to think that has come from a government account though! 
 

 

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Much appreciated.

I, on my part, think it's great you're still aiming at the person instead of the argument made.

Yes. 

 

But passive aggressive aside, I've learned for a while now when such arguments are in good faith and when they are not. 

 

This is the latter - a dichotomy of two sides (of which I'll happily and freely admit belonging to one) talking past each other. There will be no reconciliation, no common ground, because people like the ones in charge right now want neither. I see no utility in spending time and spoons addressing such arguments given the intractable nature of it. 

 

But it is as said above. Either that common ground is found and such nationalist powermongers are neutralised through it, or the Earth, along with warfare, does it for us. With the entire species, plus countless millions of others, along for the ride.

 

A rather sad legacy for a supposedly enlightened species. 

 

2 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

 

Is that a declaration of war against everyone north of the equator? 

 

No, just everyone west of roughly 20 degrees West and east of Easter Island. 

 

Monroe Doctrine. 

[MC Prussian]

Now for something even more positive:

 

The Bayeux Tapestry will be shown in London starting this September for the first time in close to 950 years.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/when-the-bayeaux-tapestry-makes-its-historic-return-to-england-the-british-government-will-insure-it-for-more-than-1-billion-180987938/

[Sly]

8 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Now for something even more positive:

 

The Bayeux Tapestry will be shown in London starting this September for the first time in close to 950 years.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/when-the-bayeaux-tapestry-makes-its-historic-return-to-england-the-british-government-will-insure-it-for-more-than-1-billion-180987938/

I’m surprised they think it’s in a condition where it can be moved! 
 

I heard the insurance amount was astronomical.