General News Thread

[CosbehFox]

30 minutes ago, JonnyBoy said:

Yes and no, but personal experience wouldn’t say uni has made me what I am today through academia or life skills versus someone who has worked from 16. I don’t regret going, but I would encourage my kids if I have them not to go to uni unless they needed the degree to be a doctor, dentist etc. 

 

I would be pushing them into an apprenticeship in engineering or something hands on but that’s going off topic 

 

I think it's' a false argument. I say this is someone who did their degree part-time while working surrounded by full timers while my brother is a bricklayer. Both in construction, both different results. 

 

The Uni option teaches communication, it teaches the sensibility of living without parents, and is mostly a supportive atmosphere. However they are protected from the reality between 18 and 22

 

Apprentices are housed by Mum & Dad in most cases, often subject to a very dated power structure hierarchy and in my experience don't really get a mix of meeting people from different backgrounds. They have to learn quickly for succession. 

 

Having had both types of people in my office. Both have positive and weaknesses. 

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

43 minutes ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Does he EVER answer a question in the commons? 

These were a couple of pretty decent answers to pretty stupid questions, in fairness:

 

If it had been the Conservatives, there would not have been the accountability, which is now in place, because they spent years and years avoiding it.

 

And

 

I think I saw that the Leader of the Opposition said this to The Sunday Times at the weekend:

“I have inherited a gigantic mess and I’m cleaning it up.” 

She said:

“It’s very difficult…it’s going to take a while.”

I know exactly how she feels.

 

And

 

The right hon. Lady said that the Opposition were not referring themselves to the ethics advisers. That is among the reasons they got booted out of office last year. She complains that we are going through the due process for a Budget and going through the necessary steps. We tried a Budget on their watch without going through those steps. What happened? They blew up the economy. We will take no lessons from them.

 

I honestly can’t believe she’s incompetent enough to ask questions so stupid that she sets the PM up for an easy reply that reminds the public of the multiple and repeated breaking of the ministerial code under the Tories, the attempt to change said ministerial code, the complete lack of any ethics across their 14 years in power, AND the gigantic disgraceful mess of a country they left behind for the next government to fix. 

[urban.spaceman]

5 minutes ago, Bilo said:

The point is that Reform voters don't seem willing to do a deep dive beyond the 'stop the boats' schtick. Not only are their plans to do this unworkable from a legal standpoint, their policy platform beyond it is either half-baked, idiotic or downright despicable. 

They’ve already been gaslit into making themselves poorer and with fewer rights, now they’re happily being gaslit into voting to remove their own human rights. 

[Tommy G]

2 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

I think it's' a false argument. I say this is someone who did their degree part-time while working surrounded by full timers while my brother is a bricklayer. Both in construction, both different results. 

 

The Uni option teaches communication, it teaches the sensibility of living without parents, and is mostly a supportive atmosphere. However they are protected from the reality between 18 and 22

 

Apprentices are housed by Mum & Dad in most cases, often subject to a very dated power structure hierarchy and in my experience don't really get a mix of meeting people from different backgrounds. They have to learn quickly for succession. 

 

Having had both types of people in my office. Both have positive and weaknesses. 

 

 

As you say both have positives and negatives. 

 

I think now, and it's been like this for a while, the financial burden of going to Uni is putting people off - and as the financial squeeze continues to hit working parents they will have less and less free cash to support their kids through university - especially when a kid is looking to go into a career that doesn't require a degree as a non negotiable.

 

I've found graduates in the past 5 years to have much poorer communication, confidence and attitude - not sure what it's down to, maybe it can be traced back to lockdown. 

[Muzzy_no7]

19 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

I think it's' a false argument. I say this is someone who did their degree part-time while working surrounded by full timers while my brother is a bricklayer. Both in construction, both different results. 

 

The Uni option teaches communication, it teaches the sensibility of living without parents, and is mostly a supportive atmosphere. However they are protected from the reality between 18 and 22

 

Apprentices are housed by Mum & Dad in most cases, often subject to a very dated power structure hierarchy and in my experience don't really get a mix of meeting people from different backgrounds. They have to learn quickly for succession. 

 

Having had both types of people in my office. Both have positive and weaknesses. 

 

 

Around 5-6% of uni students drop out. 

Less than half work in jobs relating to their degree.

 

Way too many people go to university and are unfairly pushed towards it IMO. 
 

 

[CosbehFox]

Just now, Muzzy_no7 said:

Around 5-6% of uni students drop out. 

Less than half work in jobs relating to their degree.

 

Way too many people go to university and are unfairly pushed towards it IMO. 
 

 

Dropout rates on apprenticeships are around 40%

 

https://www.suttontrust.com/news-opinion/all-news-opinion/englands-apprenticeship-system-lagging-behind-international-competitors/

 

Your final point is further compounded that if you aren't academically bright, many kids are pushed into apprenticeship being the answer. 

 

[Muzzy_no7]

7 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Dropout rates on apprenticeships are around 40%

 

https://www.suttontrust.com/news-opinion/all-news-opinion/englands-apprenticeship-system-lagging-behind-international-competitors/

 

Your final point is further compounded that if you aren't academically bright, many kids are pushed into apprenticeship being the answer. 

 

Maybe that exact apprenticeship wasn’t quite right? 
 

Id also imagine that not everyone who doesn’t go to university goes straight into an apprenticeship. 

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Maybe that exact apprenticeship wasn’t quite right? 
 

Id also imagine that not everyone who doesn’t go to university goes straight into an apprenticeship. 

Maybe that university degree wasn't quite right? I don't really see your argument here.

 

I argued against the notion that ex-uni academics don't learn life skills. They evidently do as they live away from home 

[RowlattsFox]

It's not quite as easy as 'getting an apprenticeship' though, a lot of people are forced into university as there isn't enough apprenticeships. Even more so in certain areas. I see lots of people who want apprenticeships but unless they are able to travel or re-locate there isn't the opportunities for them. 

And I mean proper apprenticeships, not the shitty ones that you see in hospitality where its just an excuse to pay someone less. 

[Muzzy_no7]

Just now, CosbehFox said:

Maybe that university degree wasn't quite right? I don't really see your argument here.

 

I argued against the notion that ex-uni academics don't learn life skills. They evidently do as they live away from home 

Bit of a difference between the commitment of university and switching apprenticeships or starting college/a job. 
 

Yesh some learn life skills, probably most. But some come back even worse😂

[Muzzy_no7]

5 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

It's not quite as easy as 'getting an apprenticeship' though, a lot of people are forced into university as there isn't enough apprenticeships. Even more so in certain areas. I see lots of people who want apprenticeships but unless they are able to travel or re-locate there isn't the opportunities for them. 

And I mean proper apprenticeships, not the shitty ones that you see in hospitality where its just an excuse to pay someone less. 

I know it’s not. I didn’t go university. I didn’t want to. I started working, got a good job then landed a decent apprenticeship and now have a steady, ‘well above average’ job and wage. 
 

I think if anything needs investment then it’s apprenticeships and trainee roles. You’re right, it should be a little easier to find the right apprenticeship or job at 18. 

[Foxdiamond]

57 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

They’ve already been gaslit into making themselves poorer and with fewer rights, now they’re happily being gaslit into voting to remove their own human rights. 

Reform seem to be just anti anything

[CornwallFox]

48 minutes ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Around 5-6% of uni students drop out. 

Less than half work in jobs relating to their degree.

 

Way too many people go to university and are unfairly pushed towards it IMO. 
 

 

You go to university to learn how to think, analyse information, learn new ways of communicating, basically a whole range of skills that are sought after by employers. The subject isn't that important aside from technical subjects. If you want to go on to work in a specific field you get a masters. 

As somebody that recruits graduates for my team, I think this is often misunderstood by people that didn't go to uni. The subject isn't important in most cases, what they've learnt skill wise is. Those crusading against university seem to do so from a position of not understanding what it's for imo.

[urban.spaceman]

8 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Reform seem to be just anti anything

Not only are they anti anything, they're anti any solution to that thing as well.

 

Especially if they caused the ****ing problem in the first place. 

 

*****. 

[Muzzy_no7]

8 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

You go to university to learn how to think, analyse information, learn new ways of communicating, basically a whole range of skills that are sought after by employers. The subject isn't that important aside from technical subjects. If you want to go on to work in a specific field you get a masters. 

As somebody that recruits graduates for my team, I think this is often misunderstood by people that didn't go to uni. The subject isn't important in most cases, what they've learnt skill wise is. Those crusading against university seem to do so from a position of not understanding what it's for imo.

That all sounds lovely and probably applies to the 45-50% that come out of university and their degree is of use to the career they embark upon. 

[CosbehFox]

40 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

It's not quite as easy as 'getting an apprenticeship' though, a lot of people are forced into university as there isn't enough apprenticeships. Even more so in certain areas. I see lots of people who want apprenticeships but unless they are able to travel or re-locate there isn't the opportunities for them. 

And I mean proper apprenticeships, not the shitty ones that you see in hospitality where its just an excuse to pay someone less. 

A lot of construction companies go from approx 20-30 apprentices in their first year down to 5-10 in the second year. 

[CosbehFox]

2 minutes ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

That all sounds lovely and probably applies to the 45-50% that come out of university and their degree is of use to the career they embark upon. 

Define use to their career. 

[leicsmac]

27 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Not only are they anti anything, they're anti any solution to that thing as well.

 

Especially if they caused the ****ing problem in the first place. 

 

*****. 

And, funnily enough, that attitude to governance can be a little negatively consequential when the problems involve consequences that aren't subject to human control.

 

In short, nature abhors ostriches as much as Big Nige does. 

[urban.spaceman]

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Love how the UK apparently nicked the Arc d'Triomphe without the French noticing. 

[nnfox]

56 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

You go to university to learn how to think, analyse information, learn new ways of communicating, basically a whole range of skills that are sought after by employers. The subject isn't that important aside from technical subjects. If you want to go on to work in a specific field you get a masters. 

As somebody that recruits graduates for my team, I think this is often misunderstood by people that didn't go to uni. The subject isn't important in most cases, what they've learnt skill wise is. Those crusading against university seem to do so from a position of not understanding what it's for imo.

The notion that someone is inherently brighter just because they went to university is outdated.

It's a shame that there seem to be a fair few companies that will still bin applications from perfectly able candidates because they chose to take a different path at age 18.

 

I see quite a few new graduates around.  A good chunk of them distinctly lack decent communication skills or sound decision making skills, but they're good at exams, and that somehow makes everything OK.

[UniFox21]

3 hours ago, JonnyBoy said:

Yes and no, but personal experience wouldn’t say uni has made me what I am today through academia or life skills versus someone who has worked from 16. I don’t regret going, but I would encourage my kids if I have them not to go to uni unless they needed the degree to be a doctor, dentist etc. 

 

I would be pushing them into an apprenticeship in engineering or something hands on but that’s going off topic 

 

Pretty much agree here, I vaguely use my degree but wouldn't say it's a requirement. Uni did give me life skills, life experience and things I just wouldn't have done or been exposed to at the time had I been in an apprenticeship/living at home.

 

Apprenticeships absolutely have some brilliant plus points and in some bigger firms is a huge advantage to accelerating your career. 

[UniFox21]

20 minutes ago, nnfox said:

The notion that someone is inherently brighter just because they went to university is outdated.

It's a shame that there seem to be a fair few companies that will still bin applications from perfectly able candidates because they chose to take a different path at age 18.

 

I see quite a few new graduates around.  A good chunk of them distinctly lack decent communication skills or sound decision making skills, but they're good at exams, and that somehow makes everything OK.

The notion that people with degrees are brighter is outdated, but that's due to the rapid increase in bullshit degrees at universities that are glorified colleges. 

 

The issue with companies binning non-grad applications is a much wider issue with recruitment in general I believe.

 

New graduates are generally 21, majority of 21 yr olds lack communication and/or decision making skills.  

 

 

[nnfox]

1 minute ago, UniFox21 said:

The notion that people with degrees are brighter is outdated, but that's due to the rapid increase in bullshit degrees at universities that are glorified colleges. 

 

The issue with companies binning non-grad applications is a much wider issue with recruitment in general I believe.

 

New graduates are generally 21, majority of 21 yr olds lack communication and/or decision making skills.  

 

 

There are perfectly bright and able young people that choose not to go to university.  Using the "did you go to university?" question as a metric as to whether someone can possibly do a job or not is bonkers.  Especially, as you say, there are so many bullshit degrees out there.

 

If your chosen profession NEEDS a university degree, go get it.  If it doesn't, you shouldn't be discriminated against by an outdated perception.

[UniFox21]

Just now, nnfox said:

There are perfectly bright and able young people that choose not to go to university.  Using the "did you go to university?" question as a metric as to whether someone can possibly do a job or not is bonkers.  Especially, as you say, there are so many bullshit degrees out there.

 

If your chosen profession NEEDS a university degree, go get it.  If it doesn't, you shouldn't be discriminated against by an outdated perception.

 

I fully agree with you, hence why I think this is a recruitment issue across the country not a solely university related one. It's your HR directors, your recruitment teams setting these criteria.