Russell Martin - Confirmed as First Team Manager

[Officer Doofy]

It's boring shit and on a wider scale it's completely ruined football as a spectacle. 

 

Him and every other one dimensional ****er like him OUT......

[Stadt]

25 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't be aiming to beat Notts County, of course we should.

 

But the money spent on our 11 on Saturday was as follows;

 

McCarthy - Free

Joseph - Free

Okoli - £12m

Souttar - £14.5m

Thomas - Academy

Skipp - £20m

Braybrooke - Academy

Burns - £75k

Cullen - £2m

Alves - Academy

Reid - Free

 

Howell - Loan

Watson - Loan

Choudhury - Academy

Bristric - £2m

 

That's a total of about £50m and 95% of it comes from three players I think we'd all happily sell. It's a disingenuous argument to suggest we should be winning games because of the money we spent on player because (other than players signed this summer) I don't think there's a player left in the squad that we paid a transfer fee for that we want to keep.

 

 

Ok, let's use wages as a proxy instead usually wage spending has about 0.9 correlation with finishing position. Even stripping out our top 15% of earners, our wage bull will completely eclipse Notts County's. They would be absolutely over the moon with one of the loanees we've picked up never mind all three.

 

The performance was unacceptable on Saturday, I can accept not winning, it's early, in fact I'd rather have lost but played well. We've played two rubbish teams in completive games so far and mustered up a goal in each, a well struck effort from a right back and a corner from a CB. 

 

0.48 xG and 8 shots against Northampton 

0.77 xG and 11 shots against Notts County

 

Which is a cotinuation of the exact same issues at Rangers and Southampton.

Edited 17 August by Stadt

[AKCJ]

3 minutes ago, Stadt said:

No, even the top sides have moved away from short-at-all-costs football. PL pass accuracy and total number of passes is falling.

https://theanalyst.com/articles/premier-league-2025-26-more-direct-football?

 

Another counterfactual is what about all the sides that play too short badly? Like w have done for the past few seasons.

 

I'm not arguing against having more of the ball in general but we have the most zealous manager for this style of play, Southampton had more of the ball on average than us and Leeds did in 23/24. There are diminishing returns with how much of the ball we have but Martin doesn't seem to care. His teams have always played their way into trouble and were doing with two players uncomfortable with possession even at this level.

 

We have to mix up our build up and actually exploit the space we create by baiting the the opposition deeper into our own half. It's not like I can't see what Martin is trying to do but we're executing his flawed model horribly.

 

Also picking Reid upfront is unforgivable, it defies all footballing reason, if he starts again on Saturday then Martin is past the point of redemption for me already.

That article doesn't point out the obvious difference from last season to the norm and that is that wasted time wasn't being properly added on to games and that referees let teams flood the areas and stop the goalkeeper from collecting long throws and corners.

 

Teams were wasting so much time setting up corners and throw ins. Guarantee that the passes per game go right back up to the average this season now that there are much tighter rules about getting the ball back in play for set pieces.

 

 

[AKCJ]

2 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Ok, let's use wages as a proxy instead usually wage spending has about 0.9 correlation with finishing position. Even stripping out our top 15% of earners, our wage bull will completely eclipse Notts County's. They would be absolutely over the moan with one of the looniness we've picked up never mind all three.

 

The performance was unacceptable on Saturday, I can accept not winning, it's early, in fact I'd rather have lost but played well. We've played two rubbish teams in completive games so far and mustered up a goal in each, a well struck effort from a right back and a corner from a CB. 

 

0.48 xG and 8 shots against Northampton 

0.77 xG and 11 shots against Notts County

 

Which is a cotinuation of the exact same issues at Rangers and Southampton.

Again, those on high wages are the players we want to get rid of. 

 

I'm not saying it's acceptable. I'm just saying that we're in this shit because we've overpaid on crap players. We shouldn't then pretend we should be doing well because we're overspending on crap players.

 

I'm sure we'll look a lot more potent once we get Bristric up to pace. It's clear that Reid isn't a striker. We all know that he's only in the team because of injuries to Chaplin and the lack of sharpness to Bristric. Once we have a striker that can occupy the back four, the likes of Braybrooke, Alves, Watson, Cullen, Chaplin, Burns, Howell and Page should really shine. There will be a lot more room in the pitch for these players.

[Gamble92]

Are there any fans of this style of football who want to show me how it can be implemented successfully when your team isn't spending about 10x everyone else on wages and instructure?

[Bablemikey]

14 minutes ago, Stadt said:

No, even the top sides have moved away from short-at-all-costs football. PL pass accuracy and total number of passes is falling.

https://theanalyst.com/articles/premier-league-2025-26-more-direct-football?

 

Another counterfactual is what about all the sides that play too short badly? Like w have done for the past few seasons.

 

I'm not arguing against having more of the ball in general but we have the most zealous manager for this style of play, Southampton had more of the ball on average than us and Leeds did in 23/24. There are diminishing returns with how much of the ball we have but Martin doesn't seem to care. His teams have always played their way into trouble and were doing with two players uncomfortable with possession even at this level.

 

We have to mix up our build up and actually exploit the space we create by baiting the the opposition deeper into our own half. It's not like I can't see what Martin is trying to do but we're executing his flawed model horribly.

 

Also picking Reid upfront is unforgivable, it defies all footballing reason, if he starts again on Saturday then Martin is past the point of redemption for me already.

Looked to me that McCarthy, Okoli, Souttar, Thomas and Skipp, not just two, were all extremely uncomfortable under the pressure Notts put them under, and were unable to really settle for the entire game. They gave up so many chances and possession you’d think they’d never played together before.

[Stadt]

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

Again, those on high wages are the players we want to get rid of. 

 

I'm not saying it's acceptable. I'm just saying that we're in this shit because we've overpaid on crap players. We shouldn't then pretend we should be doing well because we're overspending on crap players.

 

I'm sure we'll look a lot more potent once we get Bristric up to pace. It's clear that Reid isn't a striker. We all know that he's only in the team because of injuries to Chaplin and the lack of sharpness to Bristric. Once we have a striker that can occupy the back four, the likes of Braybrooke, Alves, Watson, Cullen, Chaplin, Burns, Howell and Page should really shine. There will be a lot more room in the pitch for these players.

I even said "stripping out our top 15% of earners". Our loanees will be on probably at least twice the median notts county player's salary. The players we don't want rid of like Chaplin and Cullen will be on probably at least 3x, probably more, Notts County's median salary.

 

I hope we look better when everybody is fit and integrated but we were saying similar things at the start of last season. We're a broken club and we've appointed a broken manager - there is a chance it just doesn't all click.

 

Our squad is good enough that individual quality probably is enough to get us up, but it's not asking too much for the manager to actually get a team reliably creating good chances, not picking disasters like McCarthy (he's not going to learn to kick) or Reid who has the effectiveness of a hologram. Besides the inidivual players, the wingers were so bizarrely wide yesterday they had no chance of receiving the ball in a dangerous area and we certainly didn't try to put them in behind.

 

It is only two game but there have been no green shoots from them. Last season we laboured past Sheffield Wednesday with the goals from corners and already there are similar lines of argument seeping out.

[boosmanana]

48 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Did Ipswich have the same talent disparity vs Championship teams that we do relative to Notts County? Our XI was assembled for about £60m on Saturday. They were also under their most successful manager in 45 years too.

 

You're being disengenous RE Coventry - as it was Hull they drew with but they were also much the better team.

 

We also laboured past Northampton, the attacking performances were very similar.

You didn't mention any of this though did you? You stated that a "serious promotion contender would have dispatched a newly promoted side easily", which is the point that I responded to. If you didn't mean that or didn't provide additional context to your statement, then that's not really on me to fish for anything else that you may or not have meant to say.

[boosmanana]

1 hour ago, SafewayFox said:

Are you comparing an Ipswich side that had proven success under McKenna to Martin?

 

That’s a pretty big leap.

I'm not comparing managers. I was responding to his blanket statement that "serious promotion contenders would have dispatched a newly promoted side easily", as you'd know if you read my reply to his post. 

 

You don't have to go back particularly far to argue that you can have a pretty underwhelming start to the season and still achieve something come the end of it, which was part of the point that I was making.

[AKCJ]

Just now, Gamble92 said:

Are there any fans of this style of football who want to show me how it can be implemented successfully when your team isn't spending about 10x everyone else on wages and instructure?

 

2025/26

Championship

Middlesbrough - Finished 5th with 59.5% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)  

Southampton - Finished 4th with 56.6% average possession (ranked 2nd in the league)

Ipswich - Finished 2nd with 56.1% average possession (ranked 3rd in the league)

Coventry - Finished 1st with 55.2% average possession (ranked 4th in the league)

 

League One

Cardiff - Finished 2nd with 63.1% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)  

Bolton - Finished 5th with 59.2% average possession (ranked 2nd in the league)  

Luton - Finished 7th with 55.7% average possession (ranked 3rd in the league) 

Stockport - Finished 4th with 55.3% average possession (ranked 4th in the league)  

 

2024/25

Championship

Leeds - Finished 1st with 61.6% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)

Burnley - Finished 2nd with 56.9% average possession (ranked 4th in the league)

Coventry - Finished 5th with 54.6% average possession (ranked 6th in the league)

 

League One

Birmingham - Finished 1st with 66.9% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)  

Stockport- Finished 3rd with 52.7% average possession (ranked 6th in the league)  

Leyton Orient - Finished 6th with 51.8% average possession (ranked 7th in the league)  

 

2023/24

Championship

Southampton - Finished 4th with 66.0% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)

Leicester - Finished 1st with 62.1% average possession (ranked 2nd in the league)

Leeds - Finished 3rd with 58.4% average possession (ranked 3rd in the league)

Ipswich - Finished 2nd with 53.1% average possession (ranked 7th in the league)

 

League One

Peterborough - Finished 4th with 62.2% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)  

Bolton - Finished 5th with 59.6% average possession (ranked 2nd in the league)  

Portsmouth - Finished 1st with 58.6% average possession (ranked 3rd in the league)  

 

 

 

There are some real outliers such as Lincoln winning League 1 last season with 42.3% of the ball but on the whole the majority of successful teams in League 1 and the Championship all play with the ball. It's not a coincidence. 

[boosmanana]

5 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

 

2025/26

Championship

Middlesbrough - Finished 5th with 59.5% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)  

Southampton - Finished 4th with 56.6% average possession (ranked 2nd in the league)

Ipswich - Finished 2nd with 56.1% average possession (ranked 3rd in the league)

Coventry - Finished 1st with 55.2% average possession (ranked 4th in the league)

 

League One

Cardiff - Finished 2nd with 63.1% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)  

Bolton - Finished 5th with 59.2% average possession (ranked 2nd in the league)  

Luton - Finished 7th with 55.7% average possession (ranked 3rd in the league) 

Stockport - Finished 4th with 55.3% average possession (ranked 4th in the league)  

 

2024/25

Championship

Leeds - Finished 1st with 61.6% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)

Burnley - Finished 2nd with 56.9% average possession (ranked 4th in the league)

Coventry - Finished 5th with 54.6% average possession (ranked 6th in the league)

 

League One

Birmingham - Finished 1st with 66.9% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)  

Stockport- Finished 3rd with 52.7% average possession (ranked 6th in the league)  

Leyton Orient - Finished 6th with 51.8% average possession (ranked 7th in the league)  

 

2023/24

Championship

Southampton - Finished 4th with 66.0% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)

Leicester - Finished 1st with 62.1% average possession (ranked 2nd in the league)

Leeds - Finished 3rd with 58.4% average possession (ranked 3rd in the league)

Ipswich - Finished 2nd with 53.1% average possession (ranked 7th in the league)

 

League One

Peterborough - Finished 4th with 62.2% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)  

Bolton - Finished 5th with 59.6% average possession (ranked 2nd in the league)  

Portsmouth - Finished 1st with 58.6% average possession (ranked 3rd in the league)  

 

 

 

There are some real outliers such as Lincoln winning League 1 last season with 42.3% of the ball but on the whole the majority of successful teams in League 1 and the Championship all play with the ball. It's not a coincidence. 

8 out of the top 10 teams in the Premier League last season finished with more than 50% possession too. The outliers being Sunderland and Brentford. 

[Foxin_Mad]

Its all very well having possession but you need to have an effective Striker, i.e. not BDCR and you need to get the ball into the box. 

[AKCJ]

Just now, Foxin_Mad said:

Its all very well having possession but you need to have an effective Striker, i.e. not BDCR and you need to get the ball into the box. 

Absolutely and i'm sure this will improve vastly with Bristric.

 

I think people need to realise he's not playing BDCR up front because he wants to.

 

I'm quite confident that last Saturday will be Reid's last game as striker for us now that we have Bristric and Chaplin.

[Foxin_Mad]

Just now, AKCJ said:

Absolutely and i'm sure this will improve vastly with Bristric.

 

I think people need to realise he's not playing BDCR up front because he wants to.

 

I'm quite confident that last Saturday will be Reid's last game as striker for us now that we have Bristric and Chaplin.

It had better be the last time he plays up from, preferably never plays at all. I cant stand the guy, he is highlights everything that has made us shit. 

[CosbehFox]

11 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

 

2025/26

Championship

Middlesbrough - Finished 5th with 59.5% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)  

Southampton - Finished 4th with 56.6% average possession (ranked 2nd in the league)

Ipswich - Finished 2nd with 56.1% average possession (ranked 3rd in the league)

Coventry - Finished 1st with 55.2% average possession (ranked 4th in the league)

 

League One

Cardiff - Finished 2nd with 63.1% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)  

Bolton - Finished 5th with 59.2% average possession (ranked 2nd in the league)  

Luton - Finished 7th with 55.7% average possession (ranked 3rd in the league) 

Stockport - Finished 4th with 55.3% average possession (ranked 4th in the league)  

 

2024/25

Championship

Leeds - Finished 1st with 61.6% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)

Burnley - Finished 2nd with 56.9% average possession (ranked 4th in the league)

Coventry - Finished 5th with 54.6% average possession (ranked 6th in the league)

 

League One

Birmingham - Finished 1st with 66.9% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)  

Stockport- Finished 3rd with 52.7% average possession (ranked 6th in the league)  

Leyton Orient - Finished 6th with 51.8% average possession (ranked 7th in the league)  

 

2023/24

Championship

Southampton - Finished 4th with 66.0% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)

Leicester - Finished 1st with 62.1% average possession (ranked 2nd in the league)

Leeds - Finished 3rd with 58.4% average possession (ranked 3rd in the league)

Ipswich - Finished 2nd with 53.1% average possession (ranked 7th in the league)

 

League One

Peterborough - Finished 4th with 62.2% average possession (ranked 1st in the league)  

Bolton - Finished 5th with 59.6% average possession (ranked 2nd in the league)  

Portsmouth - Finished 1st with 58.6% average possession (ranked 3rd in the league)  

 

 

 

There are some real outliers such as Lincoln winning League 1 last season with 42.3% of the ball but on the whole the majority of successful teams in League 1 and the Championship all play with the ball. It's not a coincidence. 

Funny you interpret that really because I see just five automatically promoted sides out of a possible 12 promoted sides who found themselves in the top two for average possession. 

 

That stat in particular takes a huge hit in League 1 - where its only heavy favourites for promotion Cardiff and Birmingham who achieved promotion. Rather a load of high possession fancied teams couldn't achieve automatic promotion such as Luton last year. For example of three of last year's League 1 top six don't make the possession rankings. 

 

 

[boosmanana]

2 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Funny you interpret that really because I see just five automatically promoted sides out of a possible 12 promoted sides who found themselves in the top two for average possession. 

 

That stat in particular takes a huge hit in League 1 - where its only heavy favourites for promotion Cardiff and Birmingham who achieved promotion. Rather a load of high possession fancied teams couldn't achieve automatic promotion such as Luton last year. For example of three of last year's League 1 top six don't make the possession rankings. 

 

 

Either way you peddle it, factually, 4 out of the 6 teams that got promoted out of League One and the Championship last season did so with high possession stats. 

[AKCJ]

Just now, CosbehFox said:

Funny you interpret that really because I see just five automatically promoted sides out of a possible 12 promoted sides who found themselves in the top two for average possession. 

 

That stat in particular takes a huge hit in League 1 - where its only heavy favourites for promotion Cardiff and Birmingham who achieved promotion. Rather a load of high possession fancied teams couldn't achieve automatic promotion such as Luton last year. For example of three of last year's League 1 top six don't make the possession rankings. 

 

 

Only two sides can go up automatically in any given season so it's clear that there will be occasions where teams that play with the ball will miss out.

 

Ultimately the side with the most possession hasn't finished below 5th in any of those seasons. There's clear correlation there that playing with the ball has been a successful way of playing football in League 1 and the Championship.

 

Lincoln were the only team to win their league in those 6 seasons without finishing in the top 4 for average possession. 

[SafewayFox]

21 minutes ago, boosmanana said:

I'm not comparing managers. I was responding to his blanket statement that "serious promotion contenders would have dispatched a newly promoted side easily", as you'd know if you read my reply to his post. 

 

You don't have to go back particularly far to argue that you can have a pretty underwhelming start to the season and still achieve something come the end of it, which was part of the point that I was making.

Ok, you’re comparing clubs.

 

You referenced Cov and Ipswich who were both clubs with managers that had already shown good football (Cov) or a lot of success/promotions (Ipswich) with their current manager in-situ.

 

I’d encourage you to re-watch the match, we looked so far off it, it’s not out of the realms to have doubts over Martin/his style of play with the squad that we have.

 

That’s before you mention the lack of goals, fragile defence and a crop of players not wanting to be here.

[boosmanana]

1 minute ago, SafewayFox said:

Ok, you’re comparing clubs.

 

You referenced Cov and Ipswich who were both clubs with managers that had already shown good football (Cov) or a lot of success/promotions (Ipswich) with their current manager in-situ.

 

I’d encourage you to re-watch the match, we looked so far off it, it’s not out of the realms to have doubts over Martin/his style of play with the squad that we have.

 

That’s before you mention the lack of goals, fragile defence and a crop of players not wanting to be here.

Coventry lost 17 games in the season that Frank Lampard joined in the November. In his first game after taking over they drew at home against Cardiff City who finished bottom of the table with only 3 losses more than them over the course of the season. They did very well to get to the playoffs that season and even better last season to go up as champions. 

Ipswich in their previous season were relegated from the Premier League, finishing below even us. Both Ipswich and Coventry then started last season without a win and both showed themselves to be "serious promotion contenders" as they got promoted despite their relatively slow start. We've had a relatively slow start, what's to say that we can't be a "serious promotion contender"?

 

I've re-watched it and analysed it thoroughly. In patches we played some decent stuff but for the most part we were pretty poor and gave up some horrendous chances to a vastly inferior squad of players and we perhaps could and should have lost the game. I too have doubts as I did when it was first announced that he'd been employed as our manager, but I'm not instantly writing both him and the whole season off after a singular draw, regardless of the level of performance. 

[CosbehFox]

29 minutes ago, boosmanana said:

Either way you peddle it, factually, 4 out of the 6 teams that got promoted out of League One and the Championship last season did so with high possession stats. 

Factually, two of the top 6 from League One, finished 22nd and 24th in average possession sides in the division. 
 

we can play this all day long 

Edited 17 August by CosbehFox

[CosbehFox]

Btw I wouldn’t have possession as the real alarming factor at the moment. 
 

It’s the paltry xG and the huge xG conceded 

 

Notts Courny scored the highest xG differential at the weekend of the entire division. Whilst we were in the bottom three of xG performers 

Edited 17 August by CosbehFox

[boosmanana]

Just now, CosbehFox said:

Factually, two of the top 6 from League One, finished 22nd and 24th in average possession sides in the division. 
 

we can play this all day long 

We can indeed. Realistically, nobody in here (myself included) has an idea how this season will pan out. With the squad we've assembled thus far and the budget disparity between us and most other teams in this division, we SHOULD be going up automatically. 

[boosmanana]

Just now, CosbehFox said:

Btw I wouldn’t have possession as the real alarming factor at the moment. 
 

It’s the paltry xG and xG concerned 

 

Notts Courny scored the highest xG differential at the weekend of the entire division. Whilst we were in the bottom three of xG performers 

Agreed that this is of concern, we gave up some guilt edge chances through our own flaws/mistakes. It is just  one game though, and hopefully it's something that becomes less of an issue as the season goes on providing we're able to replace those that don't fit.

[Ric Flair]

The biggest myth going is that possession football is a problem, it really isn't. The problem is if possession helps or hinders you as a team. Of course, the more you have the ball, the less the team has it and can then score but if your style of play entices football to be played very close to your goal where a mistake may lead to a big chance or goal then it's a problem and that's where we're at and Martin's teams are often at.

 

It's quite possible to have the majority of possession using a different tactic, i.e be fast and direct back to front and then try to control play in the 2nd and 3rd phases. Winning 2nd balls etc and aggressive pressing. 

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, boosmanana said:

Agreed that this is of concern, we gave up some guilt edge chances through our own flaws/mistakes. It is just  one game though, and hopefully it's something that becomes less of an issue as the season goes on providing we're able to replace those that don't fit.

It's not just one game, our xG vs Northampton was ming beast as well.