We need a change of attitude and belief

[Manwell Pablo]

Good enough or not the belief and approach is still negative and that is making a major difference on our points collection, when we first got promoted with MON we were 'not good enough' to finish in the top ten but we did, the difference between then and now is belief, attitude and approach to games.

Many teams in this league appear better than us on paper it doesn't autaomatically make them better than us as a team. All this talk of having Premiership players is bollocks for tha last few seasons these so called teams have fared no better than others, in fact many have floundered including us.

Get the team working hard for each other, keeping it simple, pressing up the field continually, playing to win and believing in yourselves as a team will get you in the top 10 at least.

Why is this though? the only way we could make it more attacking is to get Hughes out and Williams/Hume. I am a firm beleiver we need Weslowski or Johnson sitting in the midfield and playing well if we are to improve.

I don't think the problems the approach as such, it's certain players underperforming and us generally not being good enough

[davieG]

But that's what happens in that sort of game. You try to match the opposition for as long as you can and even hope to score first. They did match Albion for one half of the game but failed to score first, and because West Bromwich had better players on the pitch (and then from the bench) they went on to win. That scenario would happen 8 times out of ten. Rob Kelly just hasn't got the tools to beat the better sides in this division.

That might be true in some cases and maybe to a degree on saturday but we gave them a massive helping hand by our capitulation, not only did we remove any semblence of creativety with the withdrawal of Porter and Low (Johnson, Hughes, Stearman and Wesolowski were not going to provide it) and any outlet for our beleaguered defence but we gave a clear signal that we didn't believe in ourselves this provided them with the extra incentive and belief, which they themselves were lacking to attack us more strongly.

[Babylon]

Not really, espically when have a young player who can do it.

eh????

There is a reason one is worth millions and why the other isn't... because one is better than the other end of. We are not discussing younger players, you were comparing Johnson to squashie or whatever his name is.

[davieG]

Why is this though? the only way we could make it more attacking is to get Hughes out and Williams/Hume. I am a firm beleiver we need Weslowski or Johnson sitting in the midfield and playing well if we are to improve.

I don't think the problems the approach as such, it's certain players underperforming and us generally not being good enough

Under performance can certainly be brought on by a lack of belief, as I say I doon't think it's just about the players or the formation you choose it's about the messages both overtly and subliminal from the management team, the manager needs to inspire them, I don't think this is happening. Why? Maybe RK isn't inspirational, or maybe he doesn't actually believe in his players. Although he must have something because he certainly had them believing they could win when we were in deep shit, although as I said that collapsed completely once we were safe.

[Babylon]

Well we know what the answer is... keep sacking the manager every 20 games until we get one that wins all 20 and has us top of the league.

KELLY OUT.

[davieG]

Well we know what the answer is... keep sacking the manager every 20 games until we get one that wins all 20 and has us top of the league.

KELLY OUT.

Excellent contribution Babylon and so disappointing. We're having a discussion, not calling for the manager's head - why do you always make out that a critique of the situation means that's what we're after. Fans have always discussed the pros and cons of perfomance it's part of being a football fan.

I'm afraid in my opinion it just makes me think you're not upto an intelligent debate. Shame because you usually bring a welcome dose of reality to the table.

[Manwell Pablo]

eh????

There is a reason one is worth millions and why the other isn't... because one is better than the other end of. We are not discussing younger players, you were comparing Johnson to squashie or whatever his name is.

Nigel Quashie. (pro-nounced Quar-zie... sort of) I rekon he's about 28 they bought him for about a million, if you've got no idea who is you really shouldn't comment. Not everyone who commands a million pound transfere is a good player.

we pay Johnsons wages, he's a player that can control a game and has done in the past for other teams, he can win the ball and distubute it well and keep the team ticking. This is why he was offerd a contract.

He was let go by a ex premier league team because they have better players and he wasn't needed. This does not give him excuse to annoymous and medicore. He should be doing the job Quashie does for W.B.A....not "as well" prehaps ..... at all would be a start. James Wesolowsk can do it and if Johnson can't pick his game up he shouldn't be in the side.

[dandannieldanok]

Nigel Quashie. (pro-nounced Quar-zie... sort of) I rekon he's about 28 they bought him for about a million, if you've got no idea who is you really shouldn't comment. Not everyone who commands a million pound transfere is a good player.

we pay Johnsons wages, he's a player that can control a game and has done in the past for other teams, he can win the ball and distubute it well and keep the team ticking. This is why he was offerd a contract.

He was let go by a ex premier league team because they have better players and he wasn't needed. This does not give him excuse to annoymous and medicore. He should be doing the job Quashie does for W.B.A....not "as well" prehaps ..... at all would be a start. James Wesolowsk can do it and if Johnson can't pick his game up he shouldn't be in the side.

I personally thought Quashie was pretty poor against us. All he did was pass the ball 5 yards and sideways every time he had possesion.

[Swedging]

I tend to disagree. I think we matched them for parts of the game. If we hadnt have settled for the point after 70 mins or so. We would have got the point by attacking at them, instead of sitting back and trying to defend the point.

We'd have probably got the point if Kenton hadn't bizarrely headed into his own goal. Or maybe snatched the three, given luck.

[Babylon]

Nigel Quashie. (pro-nounced Quar-zie... sort of) I rekon he's about 28 they bought him for about a million, if you've got no idea who is you really shouldn't comment. Not everyone who commands a million pound transfere is a good player.

It was a joke.. jesus. I know full well who he is thanks and it was 1.2million.

No not every player who goes for 1 million is a good player, not sure what that point has to do with anything considering you had already sang his praises. Plus someone who has gone for a combined fee of 6.3million over 4 transfers is usually a pretty good player.

We pay Johnsons wages, he's a player that can control a game and has done in the past for other teams, he can win the ball and distubute it well and keep the team ticking. This is why he was offerd a contract.

In the "past" he has done it yes, he use to be a decent player and SHOULD still be able to put in decent displays. To EXPECT him to control games against a team full of players a damn sight better than ours is in my opinion expecting a lot. Against teams as good or worse than us he should be controling games and he should still be one of the better players. He hasn't been doing that yet so I agree is he doesn't soon he shouldn't be in the side.

[Babylon]

Excellent contribution Babylon and so disappointing. We're having a discussion, not calling for the manager's head - why do you always make out that a critique of the situation means that's what we're after. Fans have always discussed the pros and cons of perfomance it's part of being a football fan.

I'm afraid in my opinion it just makes me think you're not upto an intelligent debate. Shame because you usually bring a welcome dose of reality to the table.

It's not aimed at you, I agree that we need a change of attitude. Things can't continue as they are, the goals for column is enough evidence of that alone.

I'm just getting fed up of this place at the minute, maybe i'm getting old. All I read is thread after thread of how all we need to do is put Dodds up front, or Sheehan at left back or Gradel at right wing and we would win every game. How Kelly upsets players etc etc etc. All of which is based on no facts whatsoever.

My frustration should of been in another thread and not this one, for that I apologise.

[Mark]

I'm just getting fed up of this place at the minute, maybe i'm getting old. All I read is thread after thread of how all we need to do is put Dodds up front, or Sheehan at left back or Gradel at right wing and we would win every game. How Kelly upsets players etc etc etc. All of which is based on no facts whatsoever.

As far as I'm aware 2 posters genuinely believe Gradel should play right wing. Read the team for Hull topic, then look back at what you've posted. Hardly anyone put these players in their selections. We all want things to improve and I believe this would be a step in the right direction, just by getting him involved. Note: I didn't say we'd win every game just then.

[dandannieldanok]

I don't think it is a question of attitude and belief, more to do with personnel. Unlike Levein we haven't played 4-5-1 under Kelly yet (I don't think so anyway) and the players seem eager to do well. After the opening defeat at Luton and the second aginst Burnley, Kelly introduced more attacking wing players in Low and Porter, rather than Maybury and Tiatto. Basically, in my personal opinion, City need one central midfielder with a creative bone in their body to give our strikers the chances they need. I have faith in Fryatt despite his dry spell and Hume has always impressed me with his work rate. There is no need for Kelly to tell the players to attack attack attack, we just need some creativity, then the goals will come.

[reynard]

I think the simple fact is that City are just not good enough. If they played West Bromwich away 10 times they might win once or twice. Saturday was one of the other eight. That goes for any combination of players you all seem to like putting together. That goes for any system of play we all might favour. Just because the team beat a couple of the sides they are on a par with didn't mean Rob Kelly had just taken us to the Promised Land.

sadly at the moment this is true. the table does not lie. i agree we could change the approach but at present we are able to compete against the likes of Southend but we are a million miles away from a return to the premiership and not good enough to beat sides like west brom.

the truth is we have scored no goals at all away from home and 4 at home 3 in one match which means we have scored 1 goal in 5 matches. relegation form??

our efforts away from home are pathetic.

yes we were on parity at half time but unfortunately you get no points for half time scores. we created at best 2 chances in the whole match and how many saves did their keeper have to make. the fact that henderson is in the league team of the week speaks for itself.

on current form our performances away from home will see us relegated.

[Swedging]

As far as I'm aware 2 posters genuinely believe Gradel should play right wing.

It's just that when one of those two is Thracian, it becomes every other post you read...

[lookwhaticando]

Are we talking about the team or the fans, here?

Seriously, I can't work it out why we'd want to go out to 'not lose' - that's just an appalling approach to a game, and one I hope the management aren't instilling into the squad. That's just plain wrong.

You're never going to win if your sole objective is to 'not lose' :pinch:

[Babylon]

It's just that when one of those two is Thracian, it becomes every other post you read...

No comment.

[davieG]

I don't think it is a question of attitude and belief, more to do with personnel. Unlike Levein we haven't played 4-5-1 under Kelly yet (I don't think so anyway) and the players seem eager to do well. After the opening defeat at Luton and the second aginst Burnley, Kelly introduced more attacking wing players in Low and Porter, rather than Maybury and Tiatto. Basically, in my personal opinion, City need one central midfielder with a creative bone in their body to give our strikers the chances they need. I have faith in Fryatt despite his dry spell and Hume has always impressed me with his work rate. There is no need for Kelly to tell the players to attack attack attack, we just need some creativity, then the goals will come.

Having belief in yourself doesn't mean attack, attack, attack, it means don't defend, defend, defend. Play to win, not in a cavalier way but in a determined, forthright way. The team will always need improving by replacing individuals but what should be consistent and embedded in the team all the while is belief. Listening to the manager, the players and seeing how they continually fall back and try to defend their half of the pitch makes me believe they haven't got that belief.

[davieG]

It's just that when one of those two is Thracian, it becomes every other post you read...

Well what a lame excuse, why does it become every post you read? If you don't want to read Thracian's posts just by pass them don't use them as an excuse.

[Babylon]

Well what a lame excuse, why does it become every post you read? If you don't want to read Thracian's posts just by pass them don't use them as an excuse.

Bucause in the middle of some nutty comments he makes some bloody good points.

[ceebeefox]

Are we talking about the team or the fans, here?

Seriously, I can't work it out why we'd want to go out to 'not lose' - that's just an appalling approach to a game, and one I hope the management aren't instilling into the squad. That's just plain wrong.

You're never going to win if your sole objective is to 'not lose' :pinch:

This is the English F.A's coaching mantra, I've done the badges , " 2 banks of 4 ya de da". Coaches do set up teams not to lose. We have to realise that like the ruiner of our great club Peter Taylor, Rob Kelly belongs to the same club. I like Rob and appreciate his work last season but felt we needed someone not from that school (as MON wasn't) like Ronnie Moore, Martin Allen, Keano???

Although we are skint I think a wheeler dealer could like Brian Little did in the early 90's have turned things around. I do however love to see these young kids playing and hope and pray that they will grow and make the club great again , but what if they don't? I cant remember City bringing 5 or 6 youngsters together at once and it paying off since Jock Wallace, and they proved not to be top level players as we got relegated.

[l444ry]

This is the English F.A's coaching mantra, I've done the badges , " 2 banks of 4 ya de da". Coaches do set up teams not to lose. We have to realise that like the ruiner of our great club Peter Taylor, Rob Kelly belongs to the same club. I like Rob and appreciate his work last season but felt we needed someone not from that school (as MON wasn't) like Ronnie Moore, Martin Allen, Keano???

Although we are skint I think a wheeler dealer could like Brian Little did in the early 90's have turned things around. I do however love to see these young kids playing and hope and pray that they will grow and make the club great again , but what if they don't? I cant remember City bringing 5 or 6 youngsters together at once and it paying off since Jock Wallace, and they proved not to be top level players as we got relegated.

English football is some of the most positive in the world. All teams need to set themselves up "not to lose". By that I mean not lose the game trying to win it. That may sound double-dutch but I suppose the best example was Ossie Ardiles and his gung-ho Tottenham side. If you don't set yourself up "not to lose" you won't even win junior league games at the local park.

[Swedging]

Having belief in yourself doesn't mean attack, attack, attack, it means don't defend, defend, defend. Play to win, not in a cavalier way but in a determined, forthright way. The team will always need improving by replacing individuals but what should be consistent and embedded in the team all the while is belief. Listening to the manager, the players and seeing how they continually fall back and try to defend their half of the pitch makes me believe they haven't got that belief.

How long ago it seems, when you read so much nonsense that is posted here, but was it only this summer that we saw Italy win the World Cup? Where belief came from their defensive abilities? And sitting in their own half, mastering defensive play, was at the heart of their game.

[lcfc_jme]

Bucause in the middle of some nutty comments he makes some bloody good points.

I gota agree. No matter how daft some of his posts sound and no matter how much he complains or grumbles, Thrac always manages to make some good points, and quite intelligent ones. He doesn't need me sticking up for him, he can do it for himself, but it's quite true

[Swedging]

Well what a lame excuse, why does it become every post you read? If you don't want to read Thracian's posts just by pass them don't use them as an excuse.

I'd agree with Babylon here. There is much I'd agree with Thracian about, and he does put forward interesting ideas. But you often have to plough through too many "the kids are the solution", "only through attack will we find salvation" and increasingly bizarre conspiracy theories to get to them.