Baby savaged by Rottwielers

[Jon the Hat]

Don't like it? I don't believe we've benefited from your wisdom yet by way of providing a solution...

Let me ask you how many times a week you visit your local park or common? I'm there twice a day, every day all year, rain or shine, along with hundreds of other dog walkers. My dog enjoys time off the lead, runs around, plays with other dogs all with no problems. I would guess through my walking at different times that there are around 200 people and their dogs on an average day. Most people are there twice.

At the weekends, if it is a nice day, there might be a couple of hundred parents and kids visit over the whole weekend. They come and drop litter, scream and run around, have fun and go home until a few weeks later when the sun shines and they are out again.

Also at the weekends, out come the idiots with their macho dogs, who have no time or effort into training or socialising their dogs. They also have little regard for the children playing around the playgorund and grassed areas. If you were to ask parents of the kids playing there I suspect they would have the impression that they are large dogs running all over the place all the time. They might well subscribe to the mild hysteria that is gripping the media (and hence the nation) about dogs all of a sudden.

Now I'm a great believer in sharing amenities such as parks, but dog walkers in general use them proportionally much more than any other user, and in the main they do so responsibly. We should not be punished for the actions of a few idiots.

I will also point out that both of the recent attacks have occurred on private property, therefore your "solution" does not even adress the problem that was initially raised, although I note your discussions on dogs off lead in parks.

If you are trying to tell me that I and all the other responsible dog walkers should be forced to keep our dogs on leads and muzzled in public all the time, then I ask you who is going to enforce this at 6.30 am at tens of thousands of parks across the country? Who is going to apprehend those flaunting the law?

That is not a workable solution anyway. Why waste legislative time on something that will have no impact?

I would suggest a study into the likely effect of compulsory training for all prospective dog owners, at their own expense. A half day course explaining the needs of a dog, and the cost, time and training required to be a responsible dog owner. Education is the only way you can solve this problem.

This could tie in with a licensing scheme for OWNERS as well as their dogs. Anyone wishing to own more than one dog of a certain size should be required to have a home assesment to ensure premisies are suitable. Certain breeds might be required to attend socialisation and training with a recognised Breed association and/or suitably qualified trainer.

[Thracian]

Let me ask you how many times a week you visit your local park or common? I'm there twice a day, every day all year, rain or shine, along with hundreds of other dog walkers. My dog enjoys time off the lead, runs around, plays with other dogs all with no problems. I would guess through my walking at different times that there are around 200 people and their dogs on an average day. Most people are there twice.

At the weekends, if it is a nice day, there might be a couple of hundred parents and kids visit over the whole weekend. They come and drop litter, scream and run around, have fun and go home until a few weeks later when the sun shines and they are out again.

Also at the weekends, out come the idiots with their macho dogs, who have no time or effort into training or socialising their dogs. They also have little regard for the children playing around the playgorund and grassed areas. If you were to ask parents of the kids playing there I suspect they would have the impression that they are large dogs running all over the place all the time. They might well subscribe to the mild hysteria that is gripping the media (and hence the nation) about dogs all of a sudden.

Now I'm a great believer in sharing amenities such as parks, but dog walkers in general use them proportionally much more than any other user, and in the main they do so responsibly. We should not be punished for the actions of a few idiots.

I will also point out that both of the recent attacks have occurred on private property, therefore your "solution" does not even adress the problem that was initially raised, although I note your discussions on dogs off lead in parks.

If you are trying to tell me that I and all the other responsible dog walkers should be forced to keep our dogs on leads and muzzled in public all the time, then I ask you who is going to enforce this at 6.30 am at tens of thousands of parks across the country? Who is going to apprehend those flaunting the law?

That is not a workable solution anyway. Why waste legislative time on something that will have no impact?

I would suggest a study into the likely effect of compulsory training for all prospective dog owners, at their own expense. A half day course explaining the needs of a dog, and the cost, time and training required to be a responsible dog owner. Education is the only way you can solve this problem.

This could tie in with a licensing scheme for OWNERS as well as their dogs. Anyone wishing to own more than one dog of a certain size should be required to have a home assesment to ensure premisies are suitable. Certain breeds might be required to attend socialisation and training with a recognised Breed association and/or suitably qualified trainer.

[Daggers]

Let me ask you how many times a week you visit your local park or common?

Why? Does it matter? I pay my council tax for those amenities. Dogs do not, and dog owners pay no extra. Simply by going to let your dog crap on the grass twice a day gives you no rights over and above anyone, you have no moral high ground because you go to the park in the rain.

As it is, I cycle around Sutton Park on a daily basis...and on an almost daily basis I get some uncontrolled mutt leaping at the bike. The owner invariably laughs as none of them give a stuff for anything or anyone else in the park. I have to carefully pick my way through the dogs mess that litters every entry as next to no owners collect their mutts excrement. At weekends I can guarantee that my kids will be scared shitless by at least one uncontrolled dog...this weekend there were two on Sunday.

My dog enjoys time off the lead

Why? If your animal needs to run then why don't you and other dog owners run along with it on a lead? Because, for almost all owners, it's too much effort, just like picking up the mess they leave. The mess that causes blindness in children.

Now I'm a great believer in sharing amenities such as parks, but dog walkers in general use them proportionally much more than any other user, and in the main they do so responsibly.

So do I, but sharing does not mean imposing your animals on others. If you paid for access to an area then you have the right to do as you please - but you don't. A family with children that visit once a month have more right to be there than your dog. They certainly have the right to be able to be there without your dog approaching them.

"Oh, tell your kids not to worry, he's fine" is trotted out by complacent owner after complacent owner. He may well believe his pet is OK...and his pet may actually be very well trained and behaved...but children scared out of their wits don't know that. How on Earth can they? The frantic parents rushing over to protect their children don't know that. To allow your dog to roam free in a public area is selfish and ignorant.

We should not be punished for the actions of a few idiots.

Who is being punished? I am every time I have a dog launch itself at me, and my kids - and people up and down the country. How are you being punished if you are being asked to restrain your dog in public? How are you being punished by placing a muzzle on a dog to ensure that it doesn't bite anyone? You aren't.

I will also point out that both of the recent attacks have occurred on private property, therefore your "solution" does not even adress the problem that was initially raised, although I note your discussions on dogs off lead in parks.

Precisely, my opinions appertain to dogs in public. As far as within the home then people have to accept responsibility for their own actions, although I can see the logic in certain arguments to curb the ownership of certain species of guard dog...but that it a separate issue.

who is going to enforce this at 6.30 am at tens of thousands of parks across the country? Who is going to apprehend those flaunting the law?

It is against the law to drink drive, does that mean every car driver is breathalised as they leave a pub? It is against the law to behave in a threatening manner but does that mean every person mouthing off at another driver gets arrested? Just because you intimate that dogs owners would flout such a law (not a laudable stance) does not make it a bad law.

Every city already has dog catcher vans patrolling the streets, and police cars, and so if a dog was seen minus a muzzle or lead the owner could be spoken to. Also, as members of the public already dob in drink drivers - I would like the opportunity to photograph irresponsible pet owners on my phone and take the evidence to the police. This is a course of action as workable as any other good and sensible law in the United Kingdom.

How on earth do you police a compulsory training course for pet owners? You decry my workable suggestions and yet present a plan that is wholly unenforceable, the financial implication on their own are huge.

My rights to enjoy the open space that I pay for are being restricted by selfish members of society and their passion for animals. Either all of us that have these animals imposed on us get our rights of access returned or pet owners should be forced to pay through the nose for robbing us of them. Why the hell should my council tax pay for these animals to have somewhere to crap and sniff other dogs arses?

[Fez of Mahrez]

I've never seen a post that long that doesn't mention Alan Sheehan or Max Gradel.

[Dr The Singh]

I've never seen a post that long that doesn't mention Alan Sheehan or Max Gradel.

WE have a new long post king!!!! All hail DB, King of long posts and the the trillions of gb of porn!!!

[Daggers]

WE have a new long post king!!!! All hail DB, King of long posts and the the trillions of gb of porn!!!

I edited myself. There were an extra three pages of ****'s, b*llock's and sh*te's.

[Thracian]

I don't know about other areas but there was a time when it was never necessary to walk dogs on the local parks, certainly in the Hinckley area - because there was plenty of open space for everyone to enjoy.

Now so much of it has been built on.

As for the other points. Sadly it would take as much space to answer them as Disco Bob has used to explain his own viewpoint. So on that basis I'll take the hint and decline.

[Daggers]

Sadly it would take as much space to answer them as Disco Bob has used to explain his own viewpoint. So on that basis I'll take the hint and decline.

Yes or no then...is it right for owners to allow their dogs to intimidate people in public areas?

[Daggers]

i dont know any pet owner that doesnt talk to their animal.

But most refrain from pillow talk...unlike Shaz...

[Jon the Hat]

Yes or no then...is it right for owners to allow their dogs to intimidate people in public areas?

No it isn't, but you can't take away the right of the majority to punish a minorty, laws must be fairer than that or we will end up living in a country no-one wants to be in.

Your Children already have play areas I'm not allowed in and thay my Council tax pays for, but I'm not complaining about that. You are free to rid your bicycle in the park, but that is disturbing to some elderley walkers - do you care? Should cyclists be made to walk becuase someone gets injured by a bike?

Why are your children are so scared of dogs. Have they ever been attacked? Or are you letting media hype scare you witless and passing it on to them? You are more likely to die crushed under a falling vending machine than being attacked by a dog, by if you want to buy into the media fear machine that's your call, I'm not going to tell you how to raise your kids.

We are never going agree on this one DB, but I respect your right to walk unfettered in the park, it's shame you don't feel the same about responsible dog walkers like myself who control their dog and clean up after them, as well as picking up the litter kids & their parents leave all over the place at the weekends.

Over and Out.

[Thracian]

Yes or no then...is it right for owners to allow their dogs to intimidate people in public areas?

I cannot speak for other dog owners but I certainly never needed a muzzle to stop my German Shepherd from attacking/snarling/intimidating either people or dogs in public. And if I did, a restrainer lead would have been singularly effective.

If an owner cannot control a dog on a lead then either the dog is too big for the owner or the dog has not been trained or both...cue the value o licence and training.

The simple quiet command of "leave it" when passing a dog or person was always sufficient. In fact it was so effective she would even leave a steak - which always interested her more than people or dogs- until told she could eat it.

Tell you what though...

Seeing it's so long since I was hassled by an uncontrolled dog, perhaps 40 years, you wouldn't happen to have any ideas for getting rid of the intimidating people would you, or people who nearly kill me by riding along the pavement?.

Cos I know which I feel more threatened by.

[Daggers]

No it isn't, but you can't take away the right of the majority to punish a minorty, laws must be fairer than that or we will end up living in a country no-one wants to be in.

What "right" do you have that I want to infringe?

You sound like a smoker carping that he can't have a fag wherever he wants...his right to pass on carcinogenic pathogens to third party non-smokers.

You do not have a "right" to exercise your dog in a manner likely to cause alarm or distress to others, it doesn't exist at present no matter what selfish owners may believe or do.

Your Children already have play areas I'm not allowed in

I hate to think what you have done that has resulted in you being banned from entering play areas. Such logic is akin to me saying that you have dog kennels that I can't put my children in for Gods sake!

You are free to rid your bicycle in the park, but that is disturbing to some elderley walkers - do you care? Should cyclists be made to walk becuase someone gets injured by a bike?

You can not be serious? Are you being serious? Do you know Sutton Park? It is a place with horse and bicycle trails. What bloody elderly walkers have been disturbed by me? What a retarded statement! If, on the other hand you refer to cyclists on pavements...then I think you will find they are breaking the damn law and can be reported or arrested for it - and rightly so. Stop trying to invent some detraction to cover for your selfishness and ignorance.

Why are your children are so scared of dogs. Have they ever been attacked?

Because, Mr.Hat, they are five and six years old...which makes them smaller in comparison to most dogs. They are not scared of dogs that are properly controlled, and are on leads. The trouble is, most dog owners are selfish and believe that they do not have to have their dog on a lead in public places - and these dogs run up to small children running and playing. This is not ****ing rocket science.

Or are you letting media hype scare you witless and passing it on to them?

Don't be an idiot. Why are you being such a blinkered ass about this.

You are more likely to die crushed under a falling vending machine than being attacked by a dog

What absolute crap, what a trite and cretinous statement. As I have already explained to you, I get attacked by dogs while riding a bike along a sodding bike path through a park. People get attacked by dogs on a daily basis, not killed - but that isn't the point - they get intimidated by them.

I'm not going to tell you how to raise your kids.

I would say that is the wisest thing you have so far contributed to this debate.

[Daggers]

I cannot speak for other dog owners but I certainly never needed a muzzle to stop my German Shepherd from attacking/snarling/intimidating either people or dogs in public. And if I did, a restrainer lead would have been singularly effective.

That's the point though isn't it Thrac, there exist a large number of other dog owners that do not have you awareness of skillset. I meet them on a very frequent basis as a responsible cyclist and caring parent.

[Jon the Hat]

If you have been attacked, then you are already protected by the dangerous dogs act, so I suggest you contact the police and make a conplaint. Likewise you are able to complain about dogs running up to your kids and scaring them, as that is also covered by the dangerous dogs act.

Given that this loaw has been in place for over ten years with apparently no impact on you, what on earth gives you the idea that new laws will help?

I sympathise with you as you are clearly upset by these out of control / agressive dogs, and I suggest you contact your local dog warden and Police it the problem is as bad as you suggest.

I like, Thracian do not need a lead to keep my dog away from Children, he avoids them anyway becuase I have trained him to do so.

I am not allowed to go into playgrounds becuase I am walking my dog, and they are not allowed in playgrounds. The rather major difference is that my council tax pays for your Kid's playground. Perhaps you would prefer the money was spent on a large dog walkers enclosure.

The fact that other dog owners are irresposonsible does not make me irresponsible. You have failed entirely to explain why ALL dog walkers should have restrictions placed on them becuase some are irresponsible.

[Daggers]

The fact that other dog owners are irresposonsible does not make me irresponsible. You have failed entirely to explain why ALL dog walkers should have restrictions placed on them becuase some are irresponsible.

I'll put this in simple terms for you then:

All animals should be under the full control of their owners at all times. It is a simple acknowledgement of the rights of people to go about their business without undue interference. Just as all bikes should be on the main highway or a designated cycle path. Just as all vehicles have to give way to pedestrians.

The fact that I could responsibly elect to cycle on the path if I deemed it safe to do so, and safer than being on a certain road, does not mean it is right for me to do so. Just because the law allows people to park on the road outside of my house, blocking my car in the drive, does not make it right for them to do so. Just because someone can control their animal doesn't mean they should leave it unleashed as no one else can be certain of that fact and it causes anguish.

Failed entirely? I think not. You, being a dog lover, simply refuse to accept that your choice to have a pet has implications for others. In 1932, Benny Rothman and Ewan MacColl (among others) carried out the mass trespass of Kinder Scout - fighting for a right to roam for the British people. Amazingly then, as now, the hikers were harried by dogs.

[Jon the Hat]

I'm sorry I don't buy into the argument that I should pay a price for the irresponsibility of others. You clearly think you shouldn't have to, so why should I?

[Daggers]

I'm sorry I don't buy into the argument that I should pay a price for the irresponsibility of others. You clearly think you shouldn't have to, so why should I?

[Jon the Hat]

I think we should leave it there before you hurt your head anymore

[Daggers]

I think we should leave it there before you hurt your head anymore

I'll be fine - Where there's no sense there's no feeling.

[Matt]

I'm finding it very funny how all the attacks are comign out the woodwork now...everyone jumping on the bandwagon of "A rotweilers attacked me"

All this week you turn on the news and yet another person has been attacked....funny how you don't hear about it normally ah?!

If these people really we're attacked badly why don't we hear about more people on the news being attacked? How come a baby dies due to being attacked then everyone seems to be being attacked? Coincidence or is it just this certain part of the year when rotweilers and other big dogs come out in a mental reaction and start attacking?!

[Daggers]

I'm finding it very funny how all the attacks are comign out the woodwork now...everyone jumping on the bandwagon of "A rotweilers attacked me"

All this week you turn on the news and yet another person has been attacked....funny how you don't hear about it normally ah?!

If these people really we're attacked badly why don't we hear about more people on the news being attacked? How come a baby dies due to being attacked then everyone seems to be being attacked? Coincidence or is it just this certain part of the year when rotweilers and other big dogs come out in a mental reaction and start attacking?!

It is down to newsroom priorities rather than bogus attack claims - over 3,000 are reported annually.

[Thracian]

It is down to newsroom priorities rather than bogus attack claims - over 3,000 are reported annually.

Yes I was the subject of such a report once.

Total fabrication by a young man who was caught on our property under my car, who had a string of convictions, who had nicked several thousand pounds from his own father - a man who had himself been caught buggering his own dog!.

He just made it up to try and save his shitty arse.

Still I wouldn't have missed it for the world and I doubt the prosecuting solicitor would forget what I said to him either.

[Daggers]

News of the World campaign

[Janx]

News of the World campaign

God love their liberal attitude!!

[Daggers]

God love their liberal attitude!!

I like the way they stood back from making the advert really emotive