davieG Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 Yet, but for a good save we would of had a draw.I'm not defending Holloway I'm just saying Thracian doesn't know what he wants. He's been calling for positive attacking football ever since I've been on this forum and yet when we go gung ho at a team he still moans. Would have only masked over a totally inept and unacceptable performance.
sdb Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 we were crap yesterday, i've barely been so bored in my life. But do we have to be so OTT all the time? 2 weeks ago Ollie was the best thing since sliced bread; in fact even after the radio thing this week people loved him. Yes we're all pissed off after yesterday but what's the point of moaning? It's all we've done for the last few years and all it does is create a crappy atmosphere, crapper performances, instability and numerous new managers. Let's just give Ollie some time - he's proven in this league and things will improve.
Ultra Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 Why? Is that a serious question? Let's spell it out. In central midfield we had two promotion-winning captains from last season, whom we bought at considerable expense. Plymouth had a rookie and a geriatric Frenchman whom we pensioned off THREE years ago. Yet Nalis was allowed to stroll around as if he owned the place. How many of the Plymouth team (Halmosi apart) would get into ours?
The Reverend Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 Is that a serious question? Let's spell it out. In central midfield we had two promotion-winning captains from last season, whom we bought at considerable expense. Plymouth had a rookie and a geriatric Frenchman whom we pensioned off THREE years ago. Yet Nalis was allowed to stroll around as if he owned the place. How many of the Plymouth team (Halmosi apart) would get into ours? Correct. This is what frustrates me so much. With our team, we shouldnt be where we are. Out of probably 7 or 8 KEY players for the the promotion winning teams, we have 3 of them, yet we are still crap. It frustrates the hell out of me.
MC Prussian Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 Alright, so we all agree with the fact that something deep inside is totally wrong with this club and neither changing chairmen, managers, players has made any difference. At all. The past four to five years have been an utter disappointment and not even the Cup games save it for me. What other factors are playing a role in this? We played well at Filbo - maybe it's something (or someone) buried underneath the Walkers ? Or maybe we should switch back to a red away kit? Or maybe Thracian was right after all? Meh. I'm somewhat lost for words.
Daggers Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 How many of the Plymouth team (Halmosi apart) would get into ours? On the back of yesterday - I'll take all 11 of them
Thracian Posted 10 February 2008 Author Posted 10 February 2008 Thracian, I some times go out of my way to defend you, but I have to say you do talk a lot of shite. You moaned about Megson's defensive style and yet you can't say that Holloways that way at all, in fact he played 3 up front and then 4 up front in the second half. Their goalkeeper made 2 good saves and a number of average ones, we had a stonewall penalty turned down. We weren't as bad as the doom mongers are saying. All this talk of sacking the manager is absolutely twattish. It's not a matter of how many players he supposedly plays up front. He can play five up front and if they are not closely supported by the rest of the team, if they are not getting reasonable service and if some of them are actually more concerned with defending than attacking that doesn't make for an attacking team. And the truth of my words was fully demonstrated on Saturday. Fans all recognise the need for attackers to be the first line of defence and to track back. Anyone failing to do his bit would be quickly branded an idler. But if our defenders do the same it doesn't seem to matter anything like as much. Indeed I've lost count of the times people have posted on here that a defender's first responsibility is to defend. It is, if the the opposition have got the ball but if we have the ball his duty is to support the attacking play. I wish, just once, I could demonstrate in practical terms what I mean by having a through-the-team passing side where everyone attacks and everyone defends. You cannot sustain attacks if you're low in numbers and to cater for loss of possession it is vital to have swift and skillful defenders. I must have explained it times. Going through matches with three shots on target or similar is beyond comprehension to me. I don't know any more than anyone else whether I would win or lose a particular game but I do know this, the players would play without fear and each and every one would have the confidence to show what they could do. They would never be called crap either in fact or by unnuendo. You don't motivate players that way. You alienate them.
Geo V Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 Wow, a thread to say that you were wrong! What next? A thread to suggest you were tired or maybe grumpy??!! Anyway this is just a smart way of you saying you want him kicked out for telling Shush! to sling his hook and bringing in Oakley for Weso, Clapham for Mattock and Howard for Dodds. The fact is we should look at the Plymouth game as a shot in the arm as for what potentially he can do for us. They have sold most of their better players and still they beat us. He showed what he can build given time and they still look like a decent outfit despite all those sales. Give him time to get his system going, his players to settle and for it to be totally his team and then judge him.
Joe. Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 He didn't play yesterday. No but Timar did and he was superb, easily Man of the Match. He'd definitely make it into our back four.
Ultra Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 Wow, a thread to say that you were wrong! What next? A thread to suggest you were tired or maybe grumpy??!!Anyway this is just a smart way of you saying you want him kicked out for telling Shush! to sling his hook and bringing in Oakley for Weso, Clapham for Mattock and Howard for Dodds. The fact is we should look at the Plymouth game as a shot in the arm as for what potentially he can do for us. They have sold most of their better players and still they beat us. He showed what he can build given time and they still look like a decent outfit despite all those sales. Give him time to get his system going, his players to settle and for it to be totally his team and then judge him. Yeah that's why yesterday's win was their first in the league this year. I'll be amazed if they finish the season in the top half. This "give him time" approach was tried with Levein and Kelly. Holloway's record to date does not suggest he'll do any better for us than they did.
Koke Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 Yeah that's why yesterday's win was their first in the league this year. I'll be amazed if they finish the season in the top half.This "give him time" approach was tried with Levein and Kelly. Holloway's record to date does not suggest he'll do any better for us than they did. So what do you suggest? Should we get rid of him now eh?
Thracian Posted 10 February 2008 Author Posted 10 February 2008 Wow, a thread to say that you were wrong! What next? A thread to suggest you were tired or maybe grumpy??!!Anyway this is just a smart way of you saying you want him kicked out for telling Shush! to sling his hook and bringing in Oakley for Weso, Clapham for Mattock and Howard for Dodds. The fact is we should look at the Plymouth game as a shot in the arm as for what potentially he can do for us. They have sold most of their better players and still they beat us. He showed what he can build given time and they still look like a decent outfit despite all those sales. Give him time to get his system going, his players to settle and for it to be totally his team and then judge him. Too late. He's played his cards and we've seen his hand. I'll make no excuses for him in future. You can do what you like. And don't quote Plymouth as a shining example of anything. Tell me what Holloway's achieved as a manager? Holloway's no novice but it looks like even the rookies Paul Ince and Simon Grayson will have a comparable record by the end of this season because Holloway's earned one promotion in 10 years as a boss, when he lifted QPR back into the championship in 2004 as runners-up. All manager's like their own side but a good manager still makes something out of what he's got, rather like a good chef. l
Joe. Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 Bit harsh there Thracian using Ollie's promotion record against him. The team's he's had have hardly been promotion material apart every time. And he was never going to turn us into anything more than mid table mediocrity whilst here anyway.
Koke Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 Too late. He's played his cards and we've seen his hand. I'll make no excuses for him in future. You can do what you like. And don't quote Plymouth as a shining example of anything. Tell me what Holloway's achieved as a manager? Holloway's no novice but it looks like even the rookies Paul Ince and Simon Grayson will have a comparable record by the end of this season because Holloway's earned one promotion in 10 years as a boss, when he lifted QPR back into the championship in 2004 as runners-up. All manager's like their own side but a good manager still makes something out of what he's got, rather like a good chef. l Punching above their weight? Took them very far on one of the smallest budgets in this division. If what he has done at Plymouth isn't an achievement then I don't know how someone can possily please you. Is promotion the only credential that will satisfy you when judging managers? If so, Gary Megson is your man. Took over WBA in an awfully dire state and promoted them TWICE.
Bluemoon Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 Wow, a thread to say that you were wrong! What next? A thread to suggest you were tired or maybe grumpy??!!Anyway this is just a smart way of you saying you want him kicked out for telling Shush! to sling his hook and bringing in Oakley for Weso, Clapham for Mattock and Howard for Dodds. The fact is we should look at the Plymouth game as a shot in the arm as for what potentially he can do for us. They have sold most of their better players and still they beat us. He showed what he can build given time and they still look like a decent outfit despite all those sales.Give him time to get his system going, his players to settle and for it to be totally his team and then judge him. Yet more myth. The Argyle team that beat you had three of Holloway's players....that is all. Most were Sturrock's men from his two spells in charge. Holloway was riding on the back of a successful team spirit already in place, without which you now see the result of his ability in the shape of your own team.
Thracian Posted 10 February 2008 Author Posted 10 February 2008 Punching above their weight? Took them very far on one of the smallest budgets in this division. If what he has done at Plymouth isn't an achievement then I don't know how someone can possily please you.Is promotion the only credential that will satisfy you when judging managers? If so, Gary Megson is your man. Took over WBA in an awfully dire state and promoted them TWICE. I thought promotion was the declared target. But the answer to your question is no, promotion is not the only thing that will satisfy me. Promotion with a brand of football that reflects well on our club is all that will really satisfy me. And to that end Megson is the last manager I'd want.
Dames Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 I see Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum are at it again.
sdb Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 Thrac are you saying we should sack Ollie?? Is that gonna help?
Joe. Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 Thrac are you saying we should sack Ollie?? Is that gonna help? Yeah and we'll get Paul Ince in to replace him. He'll sort everything out in no time. Europe here we come!
maddog Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 I just want to see decent football. Im not asking for miracles, and for us to start playing amazing like under MON just decent. Id like to see Ollie show some backbone and drop the regulars Hume and Clemence. Hume puts effort in but contributes nothing towards an attack or a goal, he's just ineffective. Clemence clearly massively overachieved with Birmingham last season, he has been useless since he arrived. He can't blame an injury or fitness now either, he just loses the ball and looks slow in midfield. Wheres Wesolowski, Wheres Sappleton, Wheres Chambers???? Drop Clemence, Hayles. Stop playing Hume right wing or don't play him at all, not even on the bench. Don't just assume Howard will start every game, how's about starting Hume and Dj up front and keep the ball on the floor. Stick with the wingers Zsolt and Bori and we should be winning most matches in this division. And wheres King? From what ive seen of him hes looked great. Hes scored an amazing goal and ive not seen him lose the ball in Midfield like Clemence does.
Thracian Posted 10 February 2008 Author Posted 10 February 2008 Thrac are you saying we should sack Ollie?? Is that gonna help? I'd have more faith in Beaglehole/Stowell/Taggart to instill the missing spirit at this moment because I feel all three have more appreciation of what this club is all about. But I don't really care because it's plain that the team won't being playing as I would wish any time soon. The mistakes have been made and we are going to have to try to minimise the consequences. Whether Holloway will come good in the end I don't know but unfortunately it's not "in the end" that we have to deal with at this time. It is what happens next week and the weeks immediately after that. I've mentioned what needs to be installed in the team and that would inevitably displace some Chosen Men. I'm not sure Holloway will do that and it would be ironic if Holloway's Chosen (experienced) Men rather than Kelly's finally sent us down. However, that does seem more than possible cos Holloway has so limited his own choices and his recent team selections so often fail to compliment the individuals he chooses within those teams.
sdb Posted 10 February 2008 Posted 10 February 2008 Yeah and we'll get Paul Ince in to replace him. He'll sort everything out in no time. Europe here we come! ahh gotcha! what if he loses a couple of games to start with though?? no successful managers do that. remember O'Neill here? we won and won and won as soon as he came in!!!
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