Alan Sheehan bollocks.

[The People's Hero]

It's a skill you have yourself except uin your case it's Fryatt.

Yet in 24 appearances this season striker Fryatt has 3 goals and three assists.

That compares with so-called defender Shush!'s 2 goals and five assists in his 24 starts this season.

As you'll clearly see, Shush! had some official impact once in 3.5 matches (approx) while with Fryatt it's been once in four.

I suppose Shush! has suddenly lost those skills now he's moved to Leeds.

But if his name were Fryatt you be insisting he'll come good soon. You've kept it up for over two years here.

Pity Hammond's not been fit too. Cos he'd have done better than Fryatt as well.

I'll say this ONE last time Thracian.

I DO NOT THINK FRYATT IS A WORLD BEATER.

[Thracian]

I'll say this ONE last time Thracian.

I DO NOT THINK FRYATT IS A WORLD BEATER.

I don't think World beater came into it. Just good enough for City and The Championship would have sufficed to justify your support for him.

Unfortunately he continues to let you down and I'm more than sorry about that because we've badly needed a contribution from him this season.

Having said that I'm fast starting to share your "pass caring" outlook and that goes for Shush! too now he's declined a new contract with us, a decision that might in itself be weighing on his mind and affecting his form.

[STUHILL]

My argument about players doing better when they have familiar faces around them - people they've played well alongside before, doesn't just apply to Shush!.

I've mentioned Beswick/Mattock; Weso/King and Porter; Stearman and Gradel, Dodds and Porter were two more.

When Shush! plays with that sort of player he's confident and endlessly involved.

Shush! is very much a confidence player - it's been shown time and again over the last three seasons. If he's had a bad start in unfamiliar surroundings and with new players and a Leeds crowd who might easily turn on a Leicester import then I can easily imagine his form's dipped.

Doesn't make him a bad player.

As for him being a great player that's not even in the equation. His only task right now is convincing people he's good enough for the Championship.

He doesn't appear to be making much of a job of it at Leeds and we meanwhile are creating nothing down the left. Brilliant all round!

.

Being a confidence player is not a good enough excuse and if it's true, then he will never make it at Leicester, especially when even are senior pro's seem shot off confidence at the moment. Don't you think putting a 'confidence player' into a losing team fighting to stay up, is a stupid idea??

I can understand parts of your argument for Gradel coming back, he is confident (arrogant even) and has genuine attacking threat and is taking his chance at Bournmouth and shining. Shush! on the other hand offers only his free-kicks, although you seem to make out he is some kind of winger, which he definately is not, he isn't fast, he doesn't beat players and the worst thing is, he is a DEFENDER who isn't particularly good at defending.

I'm not ignoring that we have a problem with our current team, because we really do. I however, see our problems coming from the midfield, mainly the wings. I think Clapham has done a good enough job so far at LB and certainly settled in faster than Shush! has at Leeds.

There really are very little excuses left I'm afraid, and Shush! is proving to us all why so many managers have overlooked him here at Leicester. Hopefully you will begin to realise that being successful in the acadamy or reserves, does not always mean that a player can expect the same success in a first team. I'm always willing to be proved wrong, but I hope instead of making relatively 'weak' excuses, you may begin to question your own views.

[Dames]

Why are you still going on about Shush!?

And comparing him to Fryatt for what reason?

It really is extraordinary

[Thracian]

Being a confidence player is not a good enough excuse and if it's true, then he will never make it at Leicester, especially when even are senior pro's seem shot off confidence at the moment. Don't you think putting a 'confidence player' into a losing team fighting to stay up, is a stupid idea??

I can understand parts of your argument for Gradel coming back, he is confident (arrogant even) and has genuine attacking threat and is taking his chance at Bournmouth and shining. Shush! on the other hand offers only his free-kicks, although you seem to make out he is some kind of winger, which he definately is not, he isn't fast, he doesn't beat players and the worst thing is, he is a DEFENDER who isn't particularly good at defending.

I'm not ignoring that we have a problem with our current team, because we really do. I however, see our problems coming from the midfield, mainly the wings. I think Clapham has done a good enough job so far at LB and certainly settled in faster than Shush! has at Leeds.

There really are very little excuses left I'm afraid, and Shush! is proving to us all why so many managers have overlooked him here at Leicester. Hopefully you will begin to realise that being successful in the acadamy or reserves, does not always mean that a player can expect the same success in a first team. I'm always willing to be proved wrong, but I hope instead of making relatively 'weak' excuses, you may begin to question your own views.

Before Holloway arrived - which was the last time Shush! had some impact - we weren't really in a relegation fight and his positive contributions were pretty consistent.

You're right about Clapham and I've nothing against him. But he won't have a hand in seven goals (plus some secondary assists) between now and the end of the season because he's just not that kind of player. He is simply a defender who at least passes the ball well and supports functionally rather than with any impact. He's a hole plugger really.

No great problem if Laczko had provided chances to match Shush! or Mattock but they don't. Mattock has played 23 games this season and a few last season and has still to score and still to make a goal. I'm sure that record will improve given chance because he can attack but I simply don't see him matching Shush!'s contribution whatever role he plays.

I know that grates on fans and right now I wish it were different, but Shush! remains second in the less than flattering assists table and for good reason.

As for being overlooked by so many managers Allen picked him, Megson picked him, Beaglehole picked him (and knew him best of all) and Holloway offered him a contract extention, presumably seeing enough in the lad to work on.

I'm always questioning and adapting my views on players but the fact remains that we've replaced an attack-minded defender with a clearly cultured and effective left-foot with two players, Laczko and Clapham who just won't replace those goals I mentioned.

Mattock remains the only hope and, as he's not a free-kick taker, an historically accurate marksman nor even an especially accurate long range passer I just don't see it happening this season.

But never fear I'll be more than happy to acknowledge the point if he proves me wrong.

[Jimmy]

You hate Clem anyway, so you're going to moan when he does and make more of it than it is.

just because i don't blow smoke up his arse like you doesn't mean I hate him, I just think he has been generally poor for us and his delivery is often poor and doesn't beat the 1st man enough

[STUHILL]

Before Holloway arrived - which was the last time Shush! had some impact - we weren't really in a relegation fight and his positive contributions were pretty consistent.

You're right about Clapham and I've nothing against him. But he won't have a hand in seven goals (plus some secondary assists) between now and the end of the season because he's just not that kind of player. He is simply a defender who at least passes the ball well and supports functionally rather than with any impact. He's a hole plugger really.

No great problem if Laczko had provided chances to match Shush! or Mattock but they don't. Mattock has played 23 games this season and a few last season and has still to score and still to make a goal. I'm sure that record will improve given chance because he can attack but I simply don't see him matching Shush!'s contribution whatever role he plays.

I know that grates on fans and right now I wish it were different, but Shush! remains second in the less than flattering assists table and for good reason.

As for being overlooked by so many managers Allen picked him, Megson picked him, Beaglehole picked him (and knew him best of all) and Holloway offered him a contract extention, presumably seeing enough in the lad to work on.

I'm always questioning and adapting my views on players but the fact remains that we've replaced an attack-minded defender with a clearly cultured and effective left-foot with two players, Laczko and Clapham who just won't replace those goals I mentioned.

Mattock remains the only hope and, as he's not a free-kick taker, an historically accurate marksman nor even an especially accurate long range passer I just don't see it happening this season.

But never fear I'll be more than happy to acknowledge the point if he proves me wrong.

CLapham believe it or not his doing his job as a Left Back. You seem to brush over the importance of being able to defend as a LB far to easily.

We will have to just disagree on the importance of Sheehans freekicks because I see others who can also take dangerous free-kicks, but who also add more to the team.

Mattock doesn't come in to my argument, for me he is a LB and one for the future.

I'm also not overly impressed when stats are thrown my way. There's a different story involved in each one and you use them to your advantage. Like I've said before, you are like a Politician in your arguments.

It is clear to me, and seems a lot others too. That other than deadball situations, which ofcourse are important, Shush! offers very little in terms of open play, and actually as we are finding out at Leeds now, doesn't seem to be that good at his main job, DEFENDING, as he is a defender!!

For me, Clapham is our best option, solid and calm in defence, supported the attack against Norwich without setting the world alight. The problem is the Midfield and especially the wingers. Either Loan signings and/or recalling Gradel.

[Thracian]

CLapham believe it or not his doing his job as a Left Back. You seem to brush over the importance of being able to defend as a LB far to easily.

We will have to just disagree on the importance of Sheehans freekicks because I see others who can also take dangerous free-kicks, but who also add more to the team.

Mattock doesn't come in to my argument, for me he is a LB and one for the future.

I'm also not overly impressed when stats are thrown my way. There's a different story involved in each one and you use them to your advantage. Like I've said before, you are like a Politician in your arguments.

It is clear to me, and seems a lot others too. That other than deadball situations, which ofcourse are important, Shush! offers very little in terms of open play, and actually as we are finding out at Leeds now, doesn't seem to be that good at his main job, DEFENDING, as he is a defender!!

For me, Clapham is our best option, solid and calm in defence, supported the attack against Norwich without setting the world alight. The problem is the Midfield and especially the wingers. Either Loan signings and/or recalling Gradel.

I know Clapham's doing his job as a defender but the job doesn't end there.

We're still conceding a goal a game anyway, exactly the same as when Shush! was here.

What's changed therefore is the goals/assists we used to get from AS and which no-one else has replaced.

Don't you see? We cannot do without those goals. Indeed we've failed to score at all in four of our last seven matches. And on that basis conceding one a game means relegation.

You're right. Free-kicks are important. In fact it doesn't matter how goals come. Free-kicks, deflections, corners, flukes of any kind. But from the left side they're not happening.

You've said Clemence takes a good free-kick and implied he adds more to the side. But I mentioned six games he didn't play in on another thread - six games when we didn't lose. Shush! played right through all six. So much for what others do.

I'm no politician. You don't need fancy speeches to know that successful football management is about scoring more goals than the opposition and to do that you need to need to play enough people who can shoot and create in various ways.

You need to blend people with different skills and get the best out of them.

We don't do that. Who has excelled in our side for four years apart from goalkeper Fulop and perhaps a defender or two which is a condemnation in itself?

As for scoring zero four times in seven games - it gives you no chance.

[Koke]

He quite clearly can't even cut it in League One, never mind the Championship. And Leeds fans are just confirming what we've been saying for ages - The lad is out of his depth.

Thracian, you are fighting a losing battle here, and rightly so. The sooner you admit that this lad will go on to have a career as Football League journeyman the better.

I have nothing against him whatsoever. He's just shit.

[hebangsthedrums]

He quite clearly can't even cut it in League One, never mind the Championship. And Leeds fans are just confirming what we've been saying for ages - The lad is out of his depth.

Thracian, you are fighting a losing battle here, and rightly so. The sooner you admit that this lad will go on to have a career as Football League journeyman the better.

I have nothing against him whatsoever. He's just shit.

Dourist.

[Joe.]

I wish he'd just leave the club so we wouldn't have to discuss the same arguments every single day.

He's not good enough for Leicester City and I don't think he ever will be. I doubt he'll be with us at the beginning of next season if I'm honest.

[Jimmy]

I wish he'd just leave the club so we wouldn't have to discuss the same arguments every single day.

He's not good enough for Leicester City and I don't think he ever will be. I doubt he'll be with us at the beginning of next season if I'm honest.

we would though but he'd be saying "why did we release him?"

[Thracian]

He quite clearly can't even cut it in League One, never mind the Championship. And Leeds fans are just confirming what we've been saying for ages - The lad is out of his depth.

Thracian, you are fighting a losing battle here, and rightly so. The sooner you admit that this lad will go on to have a career as Football League journeyman the better.

I have nothing against him whatsoever. He's just shit.

I've seen Shush! play at two levels over a period of four seasons and I don't give a toss what Leeds fans think.

Brian Clough put a whole team of misfits and rejects together at Forest and achieved more than this club has ever done.

And I wouldn't be wasting that left peg even if I never used him more than 20 minutes a match.

[STUHILL]

I've seen Shush! play at two levels over a period of four seasons and I don't give a toss what Leeds fans think.

Brian Clough put a whole team of misfits and rejects together at Forest and achieved more than this club has ever done.

And I wouldn't be wasting that left peg even if I never used him more than 20 minutes a match.

And that is your major problem! You only see and hear your own views. Lame excuses aside, he isn't performing well at leeds. He is being given his chance, and he is failing. I don't care how good he was in the acadamy or reserves or even the games he had early in the season. He is playing shite at the moment at LB for league 1. He, unlike Gradel, has shown no signs that he can help us fight relegation. Take away all your crap about, 'you need goals to win games' which is fooking obvious and stats which mean fook all too, you have very little argument here and your beginning to look desperate at best.

[Thracian]

And that is your major problem! You only see and hear your own views. Lame excuses aside, he isn't performing well at leeds. He is being given his chance, and he is failing. I don't care how good he was in the acadamy or reserves or even the games he had early in the season. He is playing shite at the moment at LB for league 1. He, unlike Gradel, has shown no signs that he can help us fight relegation. Take away all your crap about, 'you need goals to win games' which is fooking obvious and stats which mean fook all too, you have very little argument here and your beginning to look desperate at best.

It's not about me it's about the team.

If you want to ignore what I've said that's your prerogative.

In fact neither Shush! nor Gradel come into it so your theory that we can get by with Clapham/Laczko/Mattock will be tested.

But even given that choice I'd still use Beswick with either Mattock or Clapham so I don't suppose we're going to agree.

In fact even if Shush! had been available I might have used Beswick because he can take free kicks and make goals. He passes well and can defend okay or attack.

[STUHILL]

It's not about me it's about the team.

If you want to ignore what I've said that's your prerogative.

In fact neither Shush! nor Gradel come into it so your theory that we can get by with Clapham/Laczko/Mattock will be tested.

But even given that choice I'd still use Beswick with either Mattock or Clapham so I don't suppose we're going to agree.

In fact even if Shush! had been available I might have used Beswick because he can take free kicks and make goals. He passes well and can defend okay or attack.

I never said we would get by with Clapham/Lackzo/Mattock! I don't see our main problem at LB. I see it in midfield and especially on the wings. Holloway should have and I think even tried to bring in more wingers. Sinclair and Lee I think we failed to get. We need wingers who can beat people, have pace, flair and a good delivery into the box. Shush! can not play LM, even Mattock struggles there. There is no point bringing in a 'confidence player' as you put it, to replace Clapham at LB who is actually doing well. You talk about scoring at least 2 goals a game, but we shouldn't sacrafice our solid defence to incorporate a dodgy defender just for his free kick speciality.

[Koke]

LB is the least of our worries at the moment. Wingers is our problem now and Thracian is right about Gradel. Not about Shush! though.

[Calum McDermott]

I know Clapham's doing his job as a defender but the job doesn't end there.

We're still conceding a goal a game anyway, exactly the same as when Shush! was here.

What's changed therefore is the goals/assists we used to get from AS and which no-one else has replaced.

Don't you see? We cannot do without those goals. Indeed we've failed to score at all in four of our last seven matches. And on that basis conceding one a game means relegation.

You're right. Free-kicks are important. In fact it doesn't matter how goals come. Free-kicks, deflections, corners, flukes of any kind. But from the left side they're not happening.

You've said Clemence takes a good free-kick and implied he adds more to the side. But I mentioned six games he didn't play in on another thread - six games when we didn't lose. Shush! played right through all six. So much for what others do.

I'm no politician. You don't need fancy speeches to know that successful football management is about scoring more goals than the opposition and to do that you need to need to play enough people who can shoot and create in various ways.

You need to blend people with different skills and get the best out of them.

We don't do that. Who has excelled in our side for four years apart from goalkeper Fulop and perhaps a defender or two which is a condemnation in itself?

As for scoring zero four times in seven games - it gives you no chance.

A defenders job is to simply not make a tackle but too make the opposing player turn play backwards. Of course things are never that simple but that is what football coaches say a defenders job is.

[WetFlannel]

He can take a free kick. Nothing else. Overall crap. End of.

[Flynny]

I'm going to start a seperate thread for Alan Shush! bollocks. This is really tiresome.

[Manwell Pablo]

It's not about me it's about the team.

If you want to ignore what I've said that's your prerogative.

In fact neither Shush! nor Gradel come into it so your theory that we can get by with Clapham/Laczko/Mattock will be tested.

But even given that choice I'd still use Beswick with either Mattock or Clapham so I don't suppose we're going to agree.

In fact even if Shush! had been available I might have used Beswick because he can take free kicks and make goals. He passes well and can defend okay or attack.

The thing you said about no careing about the what Leeds fans think. This is your problem, you don't care what anyone else thinks, it's blinkered, bordering stupid I'd say.

Although I remeber you saying the same thing about Mansfield Towns fans, except when they were saying good things about him. Then of course their opinion was gospel.

In 15 years time, after Alan Shush! retires and has spent most of his career at League One/Two level you will probabley be there at the end of it making excuses for him. The thing that gets me is it's clear it's leaving so he has no bareing on our first team, so surely this is all about you proving a point, as much as you try to claim that it's not.

[Thracian]

The thing you said about no careing about the what Leeds fans think. This is your problem, you don't care what anyone else thinks, it's blinkered, bordering stupid I'd say.

Although I remeber you saying the same thing about Mansfield Towns fans, except when they were saying good things about him. Then of course their opinion was gospel.

In 15 years time, after Alan Shush! retires and has spent most of his career at League One/Two level you will probabley be there at the end of it making excuses for him. The thing that gets me is it's clear it's leaving so he has no bareing on our first team, so surely this is all about you proving a point, as much as you try to claim that it's not.

I've said it's irrelevent lots of times but people - just like you - keep coming back on the subject.

And what point is there to prove? The stats and match reports speak for themselves and all the comment in here conveniently ignores the fact that Shush!'s goals/assists show no signs of being replaced and, frankly, that's all that concerns me.

As for other people's views I'll adjust my opinion about anyone or anything if someone presents a stronger case based on sound reasoning and the facts as they stand but Leeds fans have watched Shush! for a month at a time when the club have clearly not utilised his strengths.

How he plays for Leeds doesn't bother me anyway and I've taken no notice because, like you, I accept he's not coming back so it doesn't matter.

What does matter is that our games are running out, we're slipping further down the table and it is increasingly difficult to see where sufficient goals are going to come from because we use so few players who make things happen.

It's a bit ironic really. Dodds scores a decent quota at Lincoln even from midfield, Gradel the same at Bournemouth, Shush! did his bit from full-back yet City "boost" their side with alternatives who don't seem to score/make goals at all.

Well, the sands of time are running down are our team's got two months to start scoring. To me though we're like the proverbial ostrich. Our head's in the sand cos we don't want to see that goals/assists need to come from all parts of the team, not just from the strikers.

Note to MP:

By all means close this thread if it suits. It's perfectly clear that views are so diametrically opposed that there's no chance debate will serve any purpose.

[DanTheFoxBhoy]

I actually didn't mind Sheehan.

A given the only games I've seen him in he did quite well (and hence haven't seen the crap displays), but as it stands at the moment every time we get a set piece I don't really care, because I know that we don't have an ability to do anything with them.

Since we have something of a good defense and don't typically let any more than a couple of goals even during our dire displays, goals from set pieces can be the difference between picking up points or not.

I've lost count of how many times Nakamura for example has had an absolutely dire game in the midfield, but then pulls a free kick out of his clacker and wins the game minutes from time. I know that could never happen at City because we don't have anyone who can deliver them.

Isn't a set piece one thing he could offer in attack, something no other player can offer, albeit not offering much else?

[Fat Ron]

Are poeple still debating this, **** sake!!! He's gone is doesnt look like coming back no matter how sh*t we are at set pieces, get over it!