Acid Rain...

[Phube]

I've been wondering this for ages... with all the Global Warming (tax gathering) going on...

When I was a lad it was ACID RAIN that would kill us all!!! Strip all Scandinavian Forests of their trees, malt peoples skin (well according to Robocop I believe!).

Is this still a problem... was is a media, mass hysteria, flash-in-a-pan type thing...???

Yours curiously,

Phube!

[Fez of Mahrez]

Arsenal beat it 2-0.

[Daggers]

We made it - it fell on Europe...

I never understood the problem

[Zingari]

I remember some twat caterwauling on about purple rain , is that the same stuff ,

it did sound agonising

[Flynny]

Like most of these things, its effects are vastly overstated, the media are whipped up into a state of frenzy over it, politicians curry favour by responding to what voters suddenly give a shit about, and after a while everyone moves onto something else.

Global Warming's the current one, and a little bigger than the rest, but its the same really.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Casting my mind back 15 years or so to my A level Geography, if memory serves me correctly, acid rain was mainly caused by sulphur dioxide being released by coal fuelled power stations and then dissolving in moisture in the atmosphere before falling back to earth. Even back then they were installing technology in power stations to stop SO2 being released into the atmosphere, so I assume that this process has been completed.

So in short, they don't go on about it anymore, because as far as the developed world is concerned, it's probably been sorted out. Wouldn't surprise me if Russian and Chinese power stations are still pumping it out. If anyone can work out how to stop releasing CO2 we can stop worrying about Global Warming as well

[Daggers]

Looks like it was all down to your favourite manufacturer Phube...

[lildave3]

Looks like it was all down to your favourite manufacturer Phube...

What a ridiculous road.

[Chandler]

Casting my mind back 15 years or so to my A level Geography, if memory serves me correctly, acid rain was mainly caused by sulphur dioxide being released by coal fuelled power stations and then dissolving in moisture in the atmosphere before falling back to earth. Even back then they were installing technology in power stations to stop SO2 being released into the atmosphere, so I assume that this process has been completed.

So in short, they don't go on about it anymore, because as far as the developed world is concerned, it's probably been sorted out. Wouldn't surprise me if Russian and Chinese power stations are still pumping it out. If anyone can work out how to stop releasing CO2 we can stop worrying about Global Warming as well

Anthropogenic climate forcing (man made climate change) is just the latest in a dishonourable series of pseudo scientific, politically driven, catastrophist theories. All those that disagree with this speculative hypothesis are stigmatised as being either mad, corrupt and/or of being in a tiny academic minority. The climate contrarians have only ONCE been able to properly air their views on television ('The Great Global Warming Swindle' C4 - available on 4oD) and NEVER on the BBC (good to see that our public service broadcaster paid for by you and me still believes in balance eh?)

Amidst all the accusations levelled at the dissenters it is conveniently forgotten that one industry that was once deeply unpopular in this country (and loathed beyond measure by the environmental lobby) has quietly been making hay while the planet has been (allegedly) warming (we've actually been cooling slightly since 1998 but who cares about the facts). By a remarkable coincidence this industry is a zero carbon emitter. And, in the UK, its principal PR just happens to be the brother of one Gordon Brown. Now, your starter for 10, what industry am I talking about?

No folks I ain't talking about wind farms, solar panels or even wave energy - I'm talking NUCLEAR POWER.

You see folks, when all those old nuclear plants got decommissioned in the 80's and 90's industry chiefs recognized that it would be a bugger getting approval for the next generation of nuclear stations (urgently needed to reprocess the plutonium for the next generation of nuclear warheads for Trident coming into service in 2026). So they thought why not rehash a bit of science fiction and scare the living shit out of eveybody?

This science fiction, ironically, came out the last climate scare that was doing the rounds in the 1970's - the new ICE AGE. One of the solutions that was mooted to this alleged problem was to fill the atmosphere with carbon dioxide. But all along, it seems, we had been doing this anyway and nobody seemed to notice. Things eventually got out of hand and the new theory went global and became a handy stick with which to beat the West and surprise, surprise, the United States.

Man made global warming is such a fact that 'Big Oil', we are reliably informed, has had to fund the climate contrarians while those nice concerned people at BNFL, British Energy and EDF (who together recently launched their plan to export their 'new' nuclear technology to the rest of the world) only need to stand and watch as their unwitting, dimwitted allies in the environmental movement make complete fools of themselves as they present the case for their industry completely unaided.

And when the nuclear lobby needed a more direct and less subtle plug they were able to rely on their mates at the Beeb to stage an episode of 'Cooking in the Danger Zone' next to Chernobyl.

If you can - have a butchers at the book below. Guaranteed to make gullible Greens engage grey matter...

[fox123]

Anthropogenic climate forcing (man made climate change) is just the latest in a dishonourable series of pseudo scientific, politically driven, catastrophist theories. All those that disagree with this speculative hypothesis are stigmatised as being either mad, corrupt and/or of being in a tiny academic minority. The climate contrarians have only ONCE been able to properly air their views on television ('The Great Global Warming Swindle' C4 - available on 4oD) and NEVER on the BBC (good to see that our public service broadcaster paid for by you and me still believes in balance eh?)

Amidst all the accusations levelled at the dissenters it is conveniently forgotten that one industry that was once deeply unpopular in this country (and loathed beyond measure by the environmental lobby) has quietly been making hay while the planet has been (allegedly) warming (we've actually been cooling slightly since 1998 but who cares about the facts). By a remarkable coincidence this industry is a zero carbon emitter. And, in the UK, its principal PR just happens to be the brother of one Gordon Brown. Now, your starter for 10, what industry am I talking about?

No folks I ain't talking about wind farms, solar panels or even wave energy - I'm talking NUCLEAR POWER.

You see folks, when all those old nuclear plants got decommissioned in the 80's and 90's industry chiefs recognized that it would be a bugger getting approval for the next generation of nuclear stations (urgently needed to reprocess the plutonium for the next generation of nuclear warheads for Trident coming into service in 2026). So they thought why not rehash a bit of science fiction and scare the living shit out of eveybody?

This science fiction, ironically, came out the last climate scare that was doing the rounds in the 1970's - the new ICE AGE. One of the solutions that was mooted to this alleged problem was to fill the atmosphere with carbon dioxide. But all along, it seems, we had been doing this anyway and nobody seemed to notice. Things eventually got out of hand and the new theory went global and became a handy stick with which to beat the West and surprise, surprise, the United States.

Man made global warming is such a fact that 'Big Oil', we are reliably informed, has had to fund the climate contrarians while those nice concerned people at BNFL, British Energy and EDF (who together recently launched their plan to export their 'new' nuclear technology to the rest of the world) only need to stand and watch as their unwitting, dimwitted allies in the environmental movement make complete fools of themselves as they present the case for their industry completely unaided.

And when the nuclear lobby needed a more direct and less subtle plug they were able to rely on their mates at the Beeb to stage an episode of 'Cooking in the Danger Zone' next to Chernobyl.

If you can - have a butchers at the book below. Guaranteed to make gullible Greens engage grey matter...

You really ARE a boring ****wit!

Thanks folks and good night!

[BigGibbo]

Every generation has something thrust upon them by the government to scare the cash out of them which in later years will just be laughed at.

I reserve the right to be undecided about climate change & all that hoopla but it could be a case of the government who cried wolf!

[Zingari]

Anthropogenic climate forcing (man made climate change) is just the latest in a dishonourable series of pseudo scientific, politically driven, catastrophist theories. All those that disagree with this speculative hypothesis are stigmatised as being either mad, corrupt and/or of being in a tiny academic minority. The climate contrarians have only ONCE been able to properly air their views on television ('The Great Global Warming Swindle' C4 - available on 4oD) and NEVER on the BBC (good to see that our public service broadcaster paid for by you and me still believes in balance eh?)

Amidst all the accusations levelled at the dissenters it is conveniently forgotten that one industry that was once deeply unpopular in this country (and loathed beyond measure by the environmental lobby) has quietly been making hay while the planet has been (allegedly) warming (we've actually been cooling slightly since 1998 but who cares about the facts). By a remarkable coincidence this industry is a zero carbon emitter. And, in the UK, its principal PR just happens to be the brother of one Gordon Brown. Now, your starter for 10, what industry am I talking about?

No folks I ain't talking about wind farms, solar panels or even wave energy - I'm talking NUCLEAR POWER.

You see folks, when all those old nuclear plants got decommissioned in the 80's and 90's industry chiefs recognized that it would be a bugger getting approval for the next generation of nuclear stations (urgently needed to reprocess the plutonium for the next generation of nuclear warheads for Trident coming into service in 2026). So they thought why not rehash a bit of science fiction and scare the living shit out of eveybody?

This science fiction, ironically, came out the last climate scare that was doing the rounds in the 1970's - the new ICE AGE. One of the solutions that was mooted to this alleged problem was to fill the atmosphere with carbon dioxide. But all along, it seems, we had been doing this anyway and nobody seemed to notice. Things eventually got out of hand and the new theory went global and became a handy stick with which to beat the West and surprise, surprise, the United States.

Man made global warming is such a fact that 'Big Oil', we are reliably informed, has had to fund the climate contrarians while those nice concerned people at BNFL, British Energy and EDF (who together recently launched their plan to export their 'new' nuclear technology to the rest of the world) only need to stand and watch as their unwitting, dimwitted allies in the environmental movement make complete fools of themselves as they present the case for their industry completely unaided.

And when the nuclear lobby needed a more direct and less subtle plug they were able to rely on their mates at the Beeb to stage an episode of 'Cooking in the Danger Zone' next to Chernobyl.

If you can - have a butchers at the book below. Guaranteed to make gullible Greens engage grey matter...

very interesting; good post , i watched the 'The Great Global Warming Swindle' and thought it was well reasoned

and i'll look out for the book

[Bellend Sebastian]

very interesting; good post , i watched the 'The Great Global Warming Swindle' and thought it was well reasoned

and i'll look out for the book

I saw it as well. Viewed in isolation, it's very convincing.

Unfortunately, it was subsequently torn to shreds by the actual experts, and at least one of the people who were actually in it complained that they'd been mis-represented.

If anyone can be bothered, a sensible response can be found here:

http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pur...paganda_the.php

[Zingari]

I saw it as well. Viewed in isolation, it's very convincing.

Unfortunately, it was subsequently torn to shreds by the actual experts, and at least one of the people who were actually in it complained that they'd been mis-represented.

If anyone can be bothered, a sensible response can be found here:

http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pur...paganda_the.php

very interesting , thanks

these issues are always very much more complex than tv programs can present them.

i really don't know what to believe with co2 but i don't really have confidence that mainstream scientific thought can always be relied on, when there seem to be so many vested interested parties willing to shell out to get the results they wish

but as you say, carl wunsch ( on whose work a lot of the tv program was based ) was deeply upset at the way he had been misrepresented

but its well out of my league to form an argument either way.

like most things we we know the real truth in the distant future

[Webbo]

Anthropogenic climate forcing (man made climate change) is just the latest in a dishonourable series of pseudo scientific, politically driven, catastrophist theories. All those that disagree with this speculative hypothesis are stigmatised as being either mad, corrupt and/or of being in a tiny academic minority. The climate contrarians have only ONCE been able to properly air their views on television ('The Great Global Warming Swindle' C4 - available on 4oD) and NEVER on the BBC (good to see that our public service broadcaster paid for by you and me still believes in balance eh?)

Amidst all the accusations levelled at the dissenters it is conveniently forgotten that one industry that was once deeply unpopular in this country (and loathed beyond measure by the environmental lobby) has quietly been making hay while the planet has been (allegedly) warming (we've actually been cooling slightly since 1998 but who cares about the facts). By a remarkable coincidence this industry is a zero carbon emitter. And, in the UK, its principal PR just happens to be the brother of one Gordon Brown. Now, your starter for 10, what industry am I talking about?

No folks I ain't talking about wind farms, solar panels or even wave energy - I'm talking NUCLEAR POWER.

You see folks, when all those old nuclear plants got decommissioned in the 80's and 90's industry chiefs recognized that it would be a bugger getting approval for the next generation of nuclear stations (urgently needed to reprocess the plutonium for the next generation of nuclear warheads for Trident coming into service in 2026). So they thought why not rehash a bit of science fiction and scare the living shit out of eveybody?

This science fiction, ironically, came out the last climate scare that was doing the rounds in the 1970's - the new ICE AGE. One of the solutions that was mooted to this alleged problem was to fill the atmosphere with carbon dioxide. But all along, it seems, we had been doing this anyway and nobody seemed to notice. Things eventually got out of hand and the new theory went global and became a handy stick with which to beat the West and surprise, surprise, the United States.

Man made global warming is such a fact that 'Big Oil', we are reliably informed, has had to fund the climate contrarians while those nice concerned people at BNFL, British Energy and EDF (who together recently launched their plan to export their 'new' nuclear technology to the rest of the world) only need to stand and watch as their unwitting, dimwitted allies in the environmental movement make complete fools of themselves as they present the case for their industry completely unaided.

And when the nuclear lobby needed a more direct and less subtle plug they were able to rely on their mates at the Beeb to stage an episode of 'Cooking in the Danger Zone' next to Chernobyl.

If you can - have a butchers at the book below. Guaranteed to make gullible Greens engage grey matter...

The only conspiracies I believe in are informal conspiracies like global warming and passive smoking etc. I don't believe that big corporations sit round a table and plan these things. More like some idiot comes out with a theory that they genuinely believe and then self interested parties jump on the band wagon and agree or call for funding to research it (never saying that the theory is nonsense so as not to kill the cash cow).

Obviously it's in the govts interest to talk up global warming not only to put up taxes but to reduce our dependency on oil or gas from potentially unfriendly countries.

[Chandler]

I saw it as well. Viewed in isolation, it's very convincing.

Unfortunately, it was subsequently torn to shreds by the actual experts, and at least one of the people who were actually in it complained that they'd been mis-represented.

If anyone can be bothered, a sensible response can be found here:

http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313pur...paganda_the.php

So the 'actual experts' all agree on climate change do they? That's the biggest lie that's peddled by the environmental lobby. And this is what they don't tell you:

1) The vast majority of scientists canvassed by the UN's body on climate change (the IPCC) for their reports are not CLIMATE scientists (NB the medialens.org link - the principals are not climate scientists, George Monbiot is a zoologist etc etc). The climate change lobby (like most Stalinist organisations) not only pretends that its arguments are unassailable they pretend that there are no arguments against their nonsense.

2) There is huge resistance to current climate change science particularly from RETIRED climatologists and meteorologists - anyone working in a climate science department at a university or research institute has to tow the global warming line or they can kiss goodbye to their senior lectureship or chair.

3) Billions of pounds/dollars/euro's has gone into funding the global warming hypothesis but of course its mainly taxpayers' money, OUR money, that's gone into it - so that makes it alright then? Somehow, when a project get's government funding all of a sudden the grateful researchers suddenly come over all objective...

4) Some of the leading academic proponents of global warming now were in the vanguard of the 'New Ice Age' movement in the '70's and '80's. A few SRC grants later and many of them seemed to have changed their mind. Is this because of science of psychology?

5) We know that the nuclear lobby has very strong influence on government policy. So much so that it now looks possible that nuclear power will eat up the 20% slice of the energy supply pie once set aside for renewables. If this lobby can bring this much influence to bear on government energy policy how much more influence can it bring to bear on influencing an academic debate? Remember that the theory of man made global warming is 100% to the nuclear industry's advantage...

Now lets briefly turn to the 'actual experts.' Experts are humans with their career and financial interests, their rivalries, their quirks and failings. They are not machines, they are not COMPUTERS. Experts, like the rest of us rarely agree about anything. Ever hear the expression 'there is more than one school of thought on this?' And this is what should make you deeply suspicious about the climate change lobby - they try to make out that there is no serious opposition to their position. And that is impossible. Why?

Because climate science is a young science with lots of variables that we don't understand. What climate scientists are attempting to do is to predict the long term future when they can't even predict the next 24 hours with 100% accuracy. We've already seen one recent climate prediction thats gone 'tits up' here are a few other scientific predictions made by the relevant experts (and goverment backed in many cases) that have disappeared without trace:

1) Y2K Virus

2) Vernalisation (Lysenko)

3) Eugenics

4) Freudian Psychoanalysis

5) Malthusianism

6) Miasmiasm

7) Solar Orbit Around the Earth

8) Alchemy

Now if I was really mean I could add astrology and homeopathy to that lot. At least from the latter, science evolved to give us the placebo effect. Given the huge sums that have been poured into research into anthropogenic climate forcing we should expect an even more impressive 'accidental' return. Somehow I doubt it...

Further reading: Michael Crichton 'State of Fear' (the main tale is naff - read the footnotes at the back) and the seminal work by Bjorn Lomborg 'The Skeptical Environmentalist.'

PS Fox 123 Tell me, if my views are so boring what it is that makes yours so interesting? If you would like to meet up at my watering hole in Cov I will be very happy to enter into an 'academic discussion' with you about 'boring fcukwits.' You may sense that unlike Steve Gerard I don't duck challenges...

[fox123]

So the 'actual experts' all agree on climate change do they? That's the biggest lie that's peddled by the environmental lobby. And this is what they don't tell you:

1) The vast majority of scientists canvassed by the UN's body on climate change (the IPCC) for their reports are not CLIMATE scientists (NB the medialens.org link - the principals are not climate scientists, George Monbiot is a zoologist etc etc). The climate change lobby (like most Stalinist organisations) not only pretends that its arguments are unassailable they pretend that there are no arguments against their nonsense.

2) There is huge resistance to current climate change science particularly from RETIRED climatologists and meteorologists - anyone working in a climate science department at a university or research institute has to tow the global warming line or they can kiss goodbye to their senior lectureship or chair.

3) Billions of pounds/dollars/euro's has gone into funding the global warming hypothesis but of course its mainly taxpayers' money, OUR money, that's gone into it - so that makes it alright then? Somehow, when a project get's government funding all of a sudden the grateful researchers suddenly come over all objective...

4) Some of the leading academic proponents of global warming now were in the vanguard of the 'New Ice Age' movement in the '70's and '80's. A few SRC grants later and many of them seemed to have changed their mind. Is this because of science of psychology?

5) We know that the nuclear lobby has very strong influence on government policy. So much so that it now looks possible that nuclear power will eat up the 20% slice of the energy supply pie once set aside for renewables. If this lobby can bring this much influence to bear on government energy policy how much more influence can it bring to bear on influencing an academic debate? Remember that the theory of man made global warming is 100% to the nuclear industry's advantage...

Now lets briefly turn to the 'actual experts.' Experts are humans with their career and financial interests, their rivalries, their quirks and failings. They are not machines, they are not COMPUTERS. Experts, like the rest of us rarely agree about anything. Ever hear the expression 'there is more than one school of thought on this?' And this is what should make you deeply suspicious about the climate change lobby - they try to make out that there is no serious opposition to their position. And that is impossible. Why?

Because climate science is a young science with lots of variables that we don't understand. What climate scientists are attempting to do is to predict the long term future when they can't even predict the next 24 hours with 100% accuracy. We've already seen one recent climate prediction thats gone 'tits up' here are a few other scientific predictions made by the relevant experts (and goverment backed in many cases) that have disappeared without trace:

1) Y2K Virus

2) Vernalisation (Lysenko)

3) Eugenics

4) Freudian Psychoanalysis

5) Malthusianism

6) Miasmiasm

7) Solar Orbit Around the Earth

8) Alchemy

Now if I was really mean I could add astrology and homeopathy to that lot. At least from the latter, science evolved to give us the placebo effect. Given the huge sums that have been poured into research into anthropogenic climate forcing we should expect an even more impressive 'accidental' return. Somehow I doubt it...

Further reading: Michael Crichton 'State of Fear' (the main tale is naff - read the footnotes at the back) and the seminal work by Bjorn Lomborg 'The Skeptical Environmentalist.'

PS Fox 123 Tell me, if my views are so boring what it is that makes yours so interesting? If you would like to meet up at my watering hole in Cov I will be very happy to enter into an 'academic discussion' with you about 'boring fcukwits.' You may sense that unlike Steve Gerard I don't duck challenges...

Where was the challenge? I made a statement of what you really are! If you would like to meet up at my watering hole in Leicester I would be more than happy to take you up on your 'academic discussion' with which you propose, yet I sense that wouldn't be your choice as your only friend Captain Spock wouldn't be around to beam you up!

[Chandler]

Where was the challenge? I made a statement of what you really are! If you would like to meet up at my watering hole in Leicester I would be more than happy to take you up on your 'academic discussion' with which you propose, yet I sense that wouldn't be your choice as your only friend Captain Spock wouldn't be around to beam you up!

I was the one who issued the invitation, not you, so don't play the smart Alec with me. There were specific logistical reasons why I invited you to Coventry. The venue has a strict door policy. A one on one encounter would be guaranteed for both sides (I use the place to rendezvous with clients, not to hang out with friends).

Now you either accept or reject the invitation as put (remember that a counter offer is construed in law as a rejection). If, for the moment, you can't bring yourself to post 'I accept' please refrain from replying to any of my posts on this board until you can.

Anything else will merely confirm to fellow posters that you are dishonourable, untrustworthy and a coward.

[fox123]

I was the one who issued the invitation, not you, so don't play the smart Alec with me. There were specific logistical reasons why I invited you to Coventry. The venue has a strict door policy. A one on one encounter would be guaranteed for both sides (I use the place to rendezvous with clients, not to hang out with friends).

Now you either accept or reject the invitation as put (remember that a counter offer is construed in law as a rejection). If, for the moment, you can't bring yourself to post 'I accept' please refrain from replying to any of my posts on this board until you can.

Anything else will merely confirm to fellow posters that you are dishonourable, untrustworthy and a coward.

Firstly we are not in a court of law ****wit.

Secondly name your watering hole ****wit, i'll be there!

[Chandler]

Firstly we are not in a court of law ****wit.

Secondly name your watering hole ****wit, i'll be there!

I will be at the Whitefriars Olde Ale House in Gosford Street, Coventry (near the university) at 8.00pm THIS Wednesday the 16th April. I have long dark hair and full beard and will be wearing a dark suit and tie and will be standing at the main bar on the far right side.

I expect you to be punctual and to be on your own (as I will be).

[fox123]

I will be at the Whitefriars Olde Ale House in Gosford Street, Coventry (near the university) at 8.00pm THIS Wednesday the 16th April. I have long dark hair and full beard and will be wearing a dark suit and tie and will be standing at the main bar on the far right side.

I expect you to be punctual and to be on your own (as I will be).

Is the portrail of your character supposed to come across as some what intimidating? because you come across as some what of an Antelope rather than a Bison

You don't call the shots here Mr Antelope nor the punctuality of my attendance in your watering hole!

[Bellend Sebastian]

Goodness me.

So does global warming exist or not?

[The People's Hero]

Further reading: Michael Crichton 'State of Fear'

Is that the level of intellect we're dealing with here?

Why do you own this book?

[Vacamion]

So, when Chandler and Fox meet, are they going to

- discuss the validity of theories of environmental change

- fight

- touch each others' smelly bits

[The People's Hero]

Who is Chandler?

Has anyone ever met Chandler?

Seems like an intriguing character.

For what it's worth, I do think he adds something to the forum and I do look forward to reading his posts.

If he is a he and not a she.