Webbo Posted 17 April 2008 Posted 17 April 2008 Fear and respect are two completely different things. A teacher should not have the right to strike a pupil. Nobody has the right to strike anybody. Its uncivilised, and promotes the view that hitting people is good way to solve a problem. If I was a pupil, and a teacher struck me, I would strike the buggers back. Thats not a lack of respect, or at least its no more disprespectful than them hitting me in the first place. It was.
LeeCovFox Posted 17 April 2008 Posted 17 April 2008 It was. If somebody was to hit me, it would not make me respect them, teacher or not. It would make me think they are a twat.
Webbo Posted 17 April 2008 Posted 17 April 2008 If somebody was to hit me, it would not make me respect them, teacher or not. It would make me think they are a twat. Possibly, but if you didn't want to be hit again you'd behave. Don't think that the strict teachers were the most disliked, quite the reverse. Every body knew where they stood with the strict teachers, the kids with a bad attitude knew they had to behave and and the classes were more enjoyable for it. The weak teachers that let some kids walk all over them were the ones despised by all.
LeeCovFox Posted 17 April 2008 Posted 17 April 2008 Possibly, but if you didn't want to be hit again you'd behave.Don't think that the strict teachers were the most disliked, quite the reverse. Every body knew where they stood with the strict teachers, the kids with a bad attitude knew they had to behave and and the classes were more enjoyable for it. The weak teachers that let some kids walk all over them were the ones despised by all. I think Iwould just make sure I wasn't caught again to be honest. Thats what happened when my parents smacked my backside. My parents regret having done it, and I wouldn't do it to my own kids, not because I see it as a kind of abuse, I don't I have loving parents who just wanted the best for their kids, but because I think its ineffective and unecessary. Of course I can only speak from my own experiences. I am 24, so my attitude to somebody hitting me now is quite different to that of a child, and I never went to school at a time when caning was legal. But even so, my view is that it just wouldn't work. I actually don't believe kids now are any worse than they ever have been. I knew some little sods, my dad new some, and my grandad before him. There is just so much more exposure of bad kids now. They exist. Always have, always will. Its just the current moral panic as far as I can see, as it was with paedophiles in the late 90's, ecstasy earlier in that decade, and mods and rockers as far back as the 1960's.
maddog Posted 17 April 2008 Posted 17 April 2008 My school is closed for the teacher strike next Thursday wooooo hooooo!
Mikey Posted 17 April 2008 Posted 17 April 2008 At my school next Thursday some of the teachers are going on strike. For a pissing pay rise. Hopefully this means day off school. Only heard about this today. Hooray !
Daggers Posted 17 April 2008 Posted 17 April 2008 The deal offered the teachers does exceed that of the Police but then I think that the Police have just as much ground to be complaining too (although I understand that by law they are not allowed to strike).No teacher I know actually spends all their 13 weeks of their holiday ON HOLIDAY. I'd estimate around 5-6 weeks in most cases are actually taken as holiday. Planning and preparation done properly takes a long time- so this time is deserved. It isn't like teachers only work 9-3.30 anyway (many work at least the 8 hours, often 10 and usually need a day at the weekend for planning, prep and marking). A pay deal that is lower than current inflation and taken over three years (when we do not know what is going to happen with inflation!) is in my view completely unacceptable. And btw, it will take most NQT teachers a good 5 years to get anywhere £30K. I do not know of one teacher that gives up 5-6 weeks of their holiday entitlement nor, I suspect, does anyone else. I don't argue that prep and assessment takes up a considerable amount of time during the week and at weekends - but I never said anything different. Seeing as most NQT's are not very experienced I'm not sure what your point about them taking five years to reach the top of the scale means? Only NUT teachers are striking and it was ratified by a popular vote; 3 out of 4 members of the Union have voted to strike. The NUT is also the biggest and fastest growing teaching union.A majority of that kind is never found in parliament. You are being disingenuous and you know it - the vote did achieve 75% in favour...but less than a quarter of the NUT membership bothered to vote...and less than 10% of the entire body of teachers. And now the NUT demands other unions respect that vote? Pfft!
StroudFox Posted 17 April 2008 Posted 17 April 2008 I don't expect Jose expected such a response and a thread full of debate when he started it!!
Zingari Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 the job is just too tough for this bloke, so its payout time http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicest...ire/7351617.stm
Simon Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 I do not know of one teacher that gives up 5-6 weeks of their holiday entitlement nor, I suspect, does anyone else. I don't argue that prep and assessment takes up a considerable amount of time during the week and at weekends - but I never said anything different.Seeing as most NQT's are not very experienced I'm not sure what your point about them taking five years to reach the top of the scale means? You are being disingenuous and you know it - the vote did achieve 75% in favour...but less than a quarter of the NUT membership bothered to vote...and less than 10% of the entire body of teachers. And now the NUT demands other unions respect that vote? Pfft! Being as a great portion of teachers currently in teaching are at this end of the scale I thought it useful to point out that many do not earn the 30-35K quoted (indeed I know of deputy heads who are only just earning around this region!). I thought the ballot turnout was closer to a third (certainly no worse than local election turnout), but I am willing to bow to your superior knowledge if you can find a source. As for the NUT demanding other unions respect the vote, it is hardly their place. NUT members who strike will be docked a days pay to make their voices heard. The other unions have chosen not to. Each to their own.
Daggers Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 Being as a great portion of teachers currently in teaching are at this end of the scale I thought it useful to point out that many do not earn the 30-35K quoted (indeed I know of deputy heads who are only just earning around this region!).I thought the ballot turnout was closer to a third (certainly no worse than local election turnout), but I am willing to bow to your superior knowledge if you can find a source. As for the NUT demanding other unions respect the vote, it is hardly their place. NUT members who strike will be docked a days pay to make their voices heard. The other unions have chosen not to. Each to their own. I'd love to see your source for the majority of teachers being at the bottom end of the scale, you could well be right...but I've not seen any evidence of it. All of my data comes from the NUT website I refer you to the downloadable document Q&A's. You have to hunt for their current paid-up membership figures but it doesn't take much to see how small the support for this action is even within the NUT. In it, it states "The Union has written to the TUC asking them to remind other affiliates with members working in schools of the usual convention that their members will not undertake work normally undertaken by those who are taking strike action" - which also includes not crossing manned picket lines. Deputy Heads are on a different scale to classroom teachers and their salary is based on the size of the school, their time in the job and whether any special conditions operate within the school. Personally, I think rewarding people for experience is a good thing.
Lord Nibblington Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 In it, it states "The Union has written to the TUC asking them to remind other affiliates with members working in schools of the usual convention that their members will not undertake work normally undertaken by those who are taking strike action" - which also includes not crossing manned picket lines. Obviously can't speak for all schools, but I know of quite a few where there are no plans to have any kind of picket line on Thursday.
Daggers Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 Obviously can't speak for all schools, but I know of quite a few where there are no plans to have any kind of picket line on Thursday. I know Nibbles, but where there are they will be insisting ATL and NAS members do not cross. Not so for those of us in Voice
00rawat Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 just got a letter today saying iv got a day off college on Thursday wahey!
breadandcheese Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 Quite frankly the NUT are an unitelligent organisation and it is frightening that some teachers choose to join them over the other two teaching unions. I would probably go as far to say that those teachers who see the NUT as the best teaching union are probably not the best to educate the next generation of this nation's children. If you look at the past policies and votes of the NUT, e.g. calling for the banning of the army from promoting a military career choice in schools, with discussions that failed to distinguish the difference between political opinion on the war in Iraq from the necessity of having armed forces; or the late head of the NUT calling for private schools to be nationalised (as if this country has the money to run hundreds of more schools in the state system). With regards the NUT's issue over pay, the fact is, only in the public sector is it assumed that you should get an automatic pay increase year-on-year. This is not guaranteed in the private sector. Add to this the pension provisions that are far more favourable than the private sector, and the question has to be, where, when the economy is in trouble, when people are taxed to their eyeballs, does the NUT expect the money to come from to pay for the increases they want?
Bryn Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 Quite frankly the NUT are an unitelligent organisation and it is frightening that some teachers choose to join them over the other two teaching unions. I would probably go as far to say that those teachers who see the NUT as the best teaching union are probably not the best to educate the next generation of this nation's children.If you look at the past policies and votes of the NUT, e.g. calling for the banning of the army from promoting a military career choice in schools, with discussions that failed to distinguish the difference between political opinion on the war in Iraq from the necessity of having armed forces; or the late head of the NUT calling for private schools to be nationalised (as if this country has the money to run hundreds of more schools in the state system). With regards the NUT's issue over pay, the fact is, only in the public sector is it assumed that you should get an automatic pay increase year-on-year. This is not guaranteed in the private sector. Add to this the pension provisions that are far more favourable than the private sector, and the question has to be, where, when the economy is in trouble, when people are taxed to their eyeballs, does the NUT expect the money to come from to pay for the increases they want? At least 4 of my most respected teachers have quit the NUT over this. They refuse to strike at this critical (close to exam) time and they know they won't get the pay anyway, I don't think half of them even want it (well obviously they'd like it but they wouldn't go overboard on trying to get it) At the end of the day, teachers from a legal point pretty much have to have a union for reasons such as the need for legal defence etc. I think the NUT are just the most vocal and teachers join because they have so many other concerns that their choice of union ends up being pretty low down.
AoWW Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 Pfft, they should be in school teaching kids when and how to use bloody apostrophes. *cough - topic title!!*
stez Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 Pfft, they should be in school teaching kids when and how to use bloody apostrophes. *cough - topic title!!* no wonder teachers have to take a weekend marking stuff; it took you 2 days to notice the apostrophe!
AoWW Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 no wonder teachers have to take a weekend marking stuff; it took you 2 days to notice the apostrophe! It's because I've been busy that I didn't have time to notice it.
lildave3 Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 Pfft, they should be in school teaching kids when and how to use bloody apostrophes. *cough - topic title!!* Maybe he was just on about his own teacher? :whistle?
AoWW Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 Maybe he was just on about his own teacher? :whistle? But the striking doesn't belong to the teacher. Not one of 'em, not millions of 'em.
Daggers Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 But the striking doesn't belong to the teacher. Not one of 'em, not millions of 'em. Teacher is striking = Teacher's striking
lildave3 Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 But the striking doesn't belong to the teacher. Not one of 'em, not millions of 'em. Teacher is striking = Teacher's striking AHA! AND SO THE TUTEE BECOMES THE TUTOR. Now allow me to bask.
AoWW Posted 18 April 2008 Posted 18 April 2008 Teacher is striking = Teacher's striking But in context.....??!! Tis ambiguous. My teacher's striking. Teachers are striking. AHA!AND SO THE TUTEE BECOMES THE TUTOR. Now allow me to bask. AHA - but I'd still mark it as wrong. Because I have the power. Enjoy the basking though.
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